Collecting Water from Ocean with Oil

[da1jewfish]

I live in Palm Beach County on the east coast of south Florida. They said there is a 60-80% chance we will get tar balls. I collect water 1 a month for water changes. What do you guys think about collecting water if the tar balls are here? And probably more importantly, what about the dispersants they are using? If the tar balls are here isn't it a good assumption to say the dispersants are too?

[BrokeColoReefer]

If it where me, i would start buying synthetic salt for a while. No way would i risk the fragile ecosystem of the reef tank with VOC's, and any chance of pollutants.

[footballdude2k3]

please do not be offended, but if you are seriously considering using the water from the gulf for the foreseeable future you are an idiot. the dispersants they are using would kill everything, the oil would kill everything, so you are killing everything twice.

[Beaun]

If you don't have any oil there yet you are fine, but if there is oil in the area I would be taking a break for a while on NSW. You said 60-80% chance you will get oil, so you are saying that there is no oil there yet? If that is correct I would say you are probably ok to collect for now. People seem to hear Gulf and oil and just to all sorts of conclutions, like all of Florida is covered in it or something.

[gws76]

Originally Posted by BrokeColoReefer

If it where me, i would start buying synthetic salt for a while. No way would i risk the fragile ecosystem of the reef tank with VOC's, and any chance of pollutants.

I would have to agree. The dispersant's that were being used are an isoparafinic solvent. Not good stuff by itself, but put it into an ecosystem that "was" teaming with life and the out come is not good. I will not even mention the crude oil, that's self explanatory. I would just go with the synthetic. No use in risking your tank.

[chimmike]

Originally Posted by footballdude2k3

please do not be offended, but if you are seriously considering using the water from the gulf for the foreseeable future you are an idiot. the dispersants they are using would kill everything, the oil would kill everything, so you are killing everything twice.

Palm Beach is on the atlantic side of Florida. They have no tar balls now and will not for a while. The furthest east anyone's seen tar balls is Panama City Beach as far as I know..............It may not even be that far east but maybe to Destin and that area.

While I wouldn't use the ocean water from Palm Beach anyways if it was on the beach, if you're going offshore a couple miles I think you should be okay.

[Reefcherie]

Originally Posted by footballdude2k3

please do not be offended, but if you are seriously considering using the water from the gulf for the foreseeable future you are an idiot.

If you've no wish to offend, best to avoid the term "idiot" and other derogatory words.... (RC Moderator)

I live in FL and it is a long, skinny state with a Gulf side and an Atlantic side. The water on the Atlantic side may still be fine, but if it were my tank, especially since you are on the east side of south FL, I wouldn't use the water without a lot of testing (likely expensive). It wouldn't be worth the risk to my animals. If the oil and/or dispersants hit/have hit the right current on the Gulf side, there is the belief that the pollutants will shoot around the tip of FL and up the Atlantic side.

[SpencerG]

There may not be any dispersant in the water, or it might be so diluted that it would not pose any risk to your corals. And I seriously doubt you're going to add water with tar balls floating around.

For a fun exercise, why not call or email BP and ask them? If you do, please post their response.

[RokleM]

double post... feature...

[RokleM]

Originally Posted by SpencerG

There may not be any dispersant in the water, or it might be so diluted that it would not pose any risk to your corals. And I seriously doubt you're going to add water with tar balls floating around.

That's not necessarily true. Many key parameters of our aquaria are measured in parts per MILLION. With luck it disperses and dilutes to the point it doesn't have a large impact on the ocean let alone our reefs, but that's a risk that each and every person that use NSW will need to decide on their own.

Personally, I'd go synthetic for a while. Hit this thread in the chemistry forum, pick a salt close to your parameters, and do some research on it to see if it's something you feel safe using.

[captstinky]

Apply to get a voucher from BP to cover your synthetic water costs! You might be able to score an RO maker. This spill is getting ugly.

[serpentman]

I wouldn't risk it either. If you wait until tar balls are washing ashore in your area, it's probably already too late.

Furthermore, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, since those responsible ultimately have their own best interests at heart, I wouldn't necessarily trust the reports and media coverage. I think we'll see a TON of environmental fallout and lawsuits in areas that have been deemed "safe".

[SpencerG]

Originally Posted by RokleM

That's not necessarily true. Many key parameters of our aquaria are measured in parts per MILLION. With luck it disperses and dilutes to the point it doesn't have a large impact on the ocean let alone our reefs, but that's a risk that each and every person that use NSW will need to decide on their own.

Personally, I'd go synthetic for a while. Hit this thread in the chemistry forum, pick a salt close to your parameters, and do some research on it to see if it's something you feel safe using.

Aren't you assuming that the dispersant has traveled that far? Do you know for sure that the dispersant has made it around to the Atlantic side of Florida? Moreover, do you know of any studies that prove the dispersants used affect corals? I'm not trying to be argumentative - this spill is a very serious issue with runaway rumors, distortions, fear, etc. People need and deserve hard facts.

All that aside, if the dispersants do harm corals, then the Flower Gardens, one of the great gems of the Gulf, will be threatened. If the dispersants harm corals and can be carried in the loop current, then the Keys will be threatened. I hope to God that they do not hurt corals. There have been studies about the effect of crude on corals (corals are surpisingly resilient to a point), but I haven't seen anything about the dispersants. I think I'll contact BP about this. I doubt I'll get a straight answer. If I do, I'll post it here.

[RokleM]

Originally Posted by SpencerG

Do you know for sure that the dispersant has made it around to the Atlantic side of Florida? Moreover, do you know of any studies that prove the dispersants used affect corals?

Nope to both of those cases, which is precisely why if I was in that situation I would be considering moving to synthetic for at least a short time until more data was presented. The cost of salt vs the emotional and monetary loss of my reef is no where in the same ballpark which is why I would take that extra step

But as I said, HOPE is the key here and each person in this situation will have to make that decision on their own.

[b2d2t]

why would you risk your aquarium for a couple pails of water? if it were me i definitely wouldn't do it even if there was a chance the water was clean.

[SpencerG]

Here's EPA's water testing site:
http://www.epa.gov/bpspill/water.html
They're not even testing the water by Palm Beach, so it's hard to say for sure whether any oil and dispersant have reached the area or what the concentrations are.

Here's an alarming article by one Dr. Reese Halter, a conservation biologist at Cal Lutheran University:
http://www.smdp.com/Articles-c-2010-..._disaster.html
This is the part that stood out to me:
"Research from Israel in 2007 clearly showed that dispersant kills coral reefs and significantly retards re-growth."
The EPA has stated that the long term effects are unknown. Interesting.

Da1jewfish, you may want to spend some time reading up on this subject. There is a lot of information out there, some good, some junk. But knowledge is power, so empower yourself. Besides, only you can determine what's best for the corals in your charge.

[greenbean36191]

Corals don't seem to be harmed by crude oil unless they're physically smothered by it, i.e. they're exposed at low tide and left covered by oil.

Dispersed oil and dispersants themselves are highly toxic to corals, but only at concentrations greater than about 5% of the recommended application strength. Given the huge distances any dispersants would have to travel and the amount of time it takes there is very little risk of encountering concentrations higher than that in PBC. At toxic concentrations it tends to kill corals in about 24 hours too, so you would hear about mass mortality in the Keys before it was an issue in PBC.

If any oil does make it to PBC it will be extremely weathered. The water soluble fractions will be long gone and well diluted as will any dispersants. Unless you put actual tar balls in your tank, there is little threat of toxicity from the oil. Even in the event that tar balls do start washing up here, I wouldn't be any more hesitant to use the local NSW than I normally am. The sewage outflows and urban runoff are a much bigger concern.

Also FWIW, there are always tar balls and natural oil seeps on the Gulf Coast and some beaches in California, yet most marine labs and public aquaria there still use the water without issue.

[serpentman]

I'm not saying everyone that uses ocean water should stop. However, if you are in the projected path, I would highly recommend switching to synthetic for the time being.

For argument's sake, lets say the dispersants are present in the local water but at less than lethal concentration. By continually using contaminated water, you could be potentially concentrating the contaminant over time in your tank.

[SpencerG]

I sent an email to Dr. Sandra Brooke, Director of Coral Conservation at the Marine Conservation Biology Institute, regarding this issue of using NSW from the Atlantic coast of Florida in our aquariums. She graciously replied (thank you very much Dr. Brooke!) with the following and gave her permission for me to share this with you all:

Hi Spencer
At the moment there are no indications that the water off western Florida, the Keys or the Atlantic coast are contaminated; however even small amounts of toxins in a closed system could cause havoc, so the safest thing would be to avoid it. The EPA stance is unfortunately correct, the extensive use of dispersants has created a huge level of uncertainty in where the oil will go, and how it will behave. I'm sure you know this from the news, but there are two main problems with dispersant/oil plumes. One is the direct toxicity, and the other is the reduction in oxygen as the bacteria consume the organic material. Having said that, given time, bacteria will degrade the oil, and natural water mixing will overcome oxygen depletion, but we're still trying to assess how much damage it will do in the meantime. The processes involved are somewhat understood, but with this huge quantity of oil spewing for so long, its hard to know what will happen. I have attached a brief overview of potential effects of oil/dispersant on various components of the GOM - it's not comprehensive by any means, but might give you a starting point.

WRT your other concerns, so far the Flower Gardens seem to be out of the oil footprint, but eddies off the loop current tend to move west, so if the oil gets entrained, it could be a problem, again, especially if the oil is dispersed through the water column. Same with the Tortugas and Keys, if it stays out of the LC, they should be OK. The deep reefs in the northern Gulf on the other hand are in the danger zone. The best developed and most studied Lophelia reef is less than 100km to the NE of the leak and that was my biggest concern right from the start. There are 2 research cruises heading out to the Gulf to look at benthic communities. The Seward Johnson will be using the JSL sub to study the Tortugas, Pulley Ridge and the Florida Middle Grounds. It left yesterday so may have a web link set up soon. The other is a BP funded cruise to the deep coral reefs close to the leak. That starts on the 21st, and will have a link through the USGS website.

Just to clarify: the oil has not reached most of western Florida, but it has hit the panhandle so the water from northern Florida should definitely be avoided.

I hope this helps, if you have any more questions I'd be happy to try and answer them
Regards
Sandra

Sandra Brooke PhD
Director of Coral Conservation
Marine Conservation Biology Institute
Bellevue WA 98004