New tank maturity

Lemeshianos · 08/03/2010, 02:21 AM

I have a couple of questions regarding tank maturity.

I set up my tank in the end of March 2010.
I used 20kg (around 44lb) of DIY rock that I cured for 6 months and silica play sand.
pH spiked for a month, I guess this was due to the DIY rock but settled at 8.2 after one month.
I tried to start the cycle with a dead shrimp but bought 5kg(11 lb) of LR after 2 months since initial set up.
I didn't put anything in yet because of the high temperature 93F that I managed to drop down to 80.6-81.6 F two days ago when I got a chiller.

Before Live rock I had 5ppm of nitrites and 50ppm of nitrates. Nitrites would not drop before adding the LR so I assume that the bacteria on the LR multiplied and reduced the nitrites to zero. With water changes I dropped the nitrates to 25 and plan on having more water changes over the weekend to reduce that even more.

Now I do water changes using Natural Sea Water(NSW) after adjusting temperature and salinity.
I test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and all show 0. Salinity is 1.028 which I adjust by adding RO/DI water.
My ph stays at 8.2(I only have liquid tests for this).
After the latest water change I noticed that I had a second diatom bloom(first one was right after the tank was cycled and was expected).
I believe I brought some silicates with the NSW but it seems to make the sponges happy, so unless it is detrimental to the tanks health(tanks livestock actually) I will continue with NSW until it gets to cold to go and collect water.

My main concern right now is about the tanks maturity. After 2 months of adding LR, I only see a few feather worms on the rock and a quickly reproducing population of collonista snails. I haven't seen any amphipods or copepods. Maybe I am not looking at the right places. I tried to use a small led(white) to check the tank during the night and the only thing I saw was the snails. So I am assuming that I didn't get any pods or bristle worms with the rock.
At this point should I go by the LFS and get pods and bristleworms to add?
I am also thinking about a couple of turbo snails to keep track some algae but not really sure if those are needed as I don't have an algae bloom(or at least not yet...) Some hair algae grew, very minimal but after a week or two it was gone.

On one spot on my LR I see a macro algae growing that looks like chaeto. It grows very slowly. Maybe one 1/8 inch over 2 months. My lights are not suitable to grow algae or support corals, but I have a MH fixture that I plan to set up soon(needs a bulb).
Should I break this piece off and add it in the sump with a growth light?

My tank is a 75gallon but I don't plan on having a lot of fish to add on the bioload hence the small amount of Rock in the tank. In addition I know that I will be getting some corals attached to pieces of LR, that will slowly increase the volume of rock in the tank over the time.

So to round up everything and ask my questions:

1. What is the effect of fine silica sand on pods population, bristleworms and other sand dwelling creatures? I had sand storms at the beginning but now even if a powerhead loses suction it just moves the sand to small piles. I clean the rocks about once a week.
Many concern is if the sand is too fine and does not allow tunnels to be dug by worms, etc...

It is a shallow sand bed so I don't anticipate any anoxic zones that would lead to H2S creation(Deep sand beds with fine sand have this problem).

2. Should I add copepods and bristleworms from the LFS to the tank?

3. What should I do with the spot with chaeto growth? If it is chaeto and not something else...
http://i30.*******.com/jqq5ie.jpg

4. The live stock that I plan to have is the following. Can you please advice on compatibility:
mandarin goby (that is feeding of frozen brine and mysis at the LFS. Will verify that it is feeding before adding one)
pair of ocellaris
yellow or blue tang(tank is 75g. I plan on getting a small size fish that will be exchanging at LFS when it grews to large for my tank)
Cleaner shrimp
Some turbosnails if i see that I need to control algae on LR
Some nassarius if I notice the sand getting dirty
Soft and LPS corals when my light fixture is ready

5. Do diatoms have a negative impact on livestock health or are they just an ugly sight?

shifty51008 · 08/03/2010, 03:39 AM

1. silica sand is a very sharp sand you can scratch glass with it, where as Aragamax Sand is soft, the diff. should not matter with bristle worms or pods but I would just be worried about sand sifting fish with the sharpness of the sand (however ican't say for sure because i have never used silica sand) also the silica causes diatams (again this may have been proven wrong so can't be sure)

2. adding some pods and bristle worms would be a good thing, they are great scavangers and a food source for fish

3. hard to say what type of algae it is but don't look like cheato, if you have a fuge I would add it there along with a light.

4. your fish list looks fine but IMO I would just stick with fish that you can care for the whole time rather than trading when they get to big. the yellow tang will be fine for it's life.

5. diatoms are IMO just an ugly sight but also a sign that you have extra nutrients in the tank.

Lemeshianos · 08/03/2010, 05:25 AM

Is diatom bloom related to lighting conditions? I had the lights on for 12 hours two days in a row when I got the second bloom. Previously I had made 2 water changes with NSW and no bloom was observed.

Does any of the fish in the list eat chaeto? (maybe the yellow tang?)

If I go to the LFS and ask to see the mandarin eating the frozen food, is it ok if I add it now or should I avoid it for the time being? I do have plans for a refugium but not for the time being.

1crazymofo · 08/03/2010, 06:02 AM

chaeto isnt digested well

shifty51008 · 08/03/2010, 06:11 AM

the diatom bloom can be due to your lights being old but should come because of the lights for 12 hours, I am guessing extra nutrients in the tank that cause them.

I agree cheato is not an algae that is well digested and shouldn't be fed to fish.

I would say as long as the mandrin is eating prepared foods he should be fine to add, but I would also suggest a QT for at least 4-6 weeks as with every fish you add to the tank.

Lemeshianos · 08/03/2010, 07:32 AM

I don't want to feed the chaeto to the tang. I want to keep it. That is why I am thinking about breaking that piece off and keeping it in the sump so I can grow it there without the risk of something eating it.

A few additional questions for the QT.
I have a QT that is broken. I need to replace glass and fix it.
I also have a lot of bioballs around 1 inch in diameter.

1. Can I use these in a filter in my sump to develop bacteria so that I can use in the QT? Or is the sponge a better substitute than bioballs.
2. If I have a filter in the sump to keep a bacterial growth for filtration when needed in the QT won't it trap detritus and cause an increase in NO3?
3. Let's say I treat my QT with copper to kill parasites like ich. How can I be sure that when I place the filter back in the sump (when the QT is not needed) I won't be contaminating my display tank?

MCary · 08/03/2010, 07:41 AM

It's a macroalgae, it may not be cheato.

Diatoms are your friends. Diatom use nutrients that other more nuisance algae use. The grow faster and out compete the other algaes. They are easy to clean off. They are food for corals. Scrape the glass and you feed the corals at the same time. They are unsightly, but they go away.

Lemeshianos · 08/03/2010, 08:16 AM

I don't mind them as they appeared the day after the water change with NSW and they go away after 1 or 2 days. Given the reduction of cost and wait time to make a water change I prefer NSW over artificial SW. Sponges have shown growth and feather dusters come out more often when there is fresh NSW. I don't have any corals to see how they behave at NSW.

Palting · 08/03/2010, 08:48 AM

Tangs don't like chaeto. In fact, it's the only macro algae that survives in my tank with three tangs. BUT, i don't think what you have in the pic is chaeto.

I thnk bioballs are better than a sponge, but that is just an opinion with no science behind it.

Any non-live rock biomedia will produce NO3. Macro algae and WC for that.

Cupra sorb removes cupramine. I would use it at the end of the treatment period, then clean everything with vingar and bleach before returning it to the sump. It is for this additional step, and other issues too, that I would rather use hyposalinity in QT rather than copper.

TampaReefer79 · 08/03/2010, 08:58 AM

I've had tangs for years that ate chaeto. They like grape calurpa better, but still ate the chaeto.

A blue tang would not be a good choice for a 75. I really don't think the yellow would be either, but it's at least a better choice than a hippo.

08/03/2010, 02:21 AM	#1
Lemeshianos Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 468	New tank maturity I have a couple of questions regarding tank maturity. I set up my tank in the end of March 2010. I used 20kg (around 44lb) of DIY rock that I cured for 6 months and silica play sand. pH spiked for a month, I guess this was due to the DIY rock but settled at 8.2 after one month. I tried to start the cycle with a dead shrimp but bought 5kg(11 lb) of LR after 2 months since initial set up. I didn't put anything in yet because of the high temperature 93F that I managed to drop down to 80.6-81.6 F two days ago when I got a chiller. Before Live rock I had 5ppm of nitrites and 50ppm of nitrates. Nitrites would not drop before adding the LR so I assume that the bacteria on the LR multiplied and reduced the nitrites to zero. With water changes I dropped the nitrates to 25 and plan on having more water changes over the weekend to reduce that even more. Now I do water changes using Natural Sea Water(NSW) after adjusting temperature and salinity. I test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and all show 0. Salinity is 1.028 which I adjust by adding RO/DI water. My ph stays at 8.2(I only have liquid tests for this). After the latest water change I noticed that I had a second diatom bloom(first one was right after the tank was cycled and was expected). I believe I brought some silicates with the NSW but it seems to make the sponges happy, so unless it is detrimental to the tanks health(tanks livestock actually) I will continue with NSW until it gets to cold to go and collect water. My main concern right now is about the tanks maturity. After 2 months of adding LR, I only see a few feather worms on the rock and a quickly reproducing population of collonista snails. I haven't seen any amphipods or copepods. Maybe I am not looking at the right places. I tried to use a small led(white) to check the tank during the night and the only thing I saw was the snails. So I am assuming that I didn't get any pods or bristle worms with the rock. At this point should I go by the LFS and get pods and bristleworms to add? I am also thinking about a couple of turbo snails to keep track some algae but not really sure if those are needed as I don't have an algae bloom(or at least not yet...) Some hair algae grew, very minimal but after a week or two it was gone. On one spot on my LR I see a macro algae growing that looks like chaeto. It grows very slowly. Maybe one 1/8 inch over 2 months. My lights are not suitable to grow algae or support corals, but I have a MH fixture that I plan to set up soon(needs a bulb). Should I break this piece off and add it in the sump with a growth light? My tank is a 75gallon but I don't plan on having a lot of fish to add on the bioload hence the small amount of Rock in the tank. In addition I know that I will be getting some corals attached to pieces of LR, that will slowly increase the volume of rock in the tank over the time. So to round up everything and ask my questions: 1. What is the effect of fine silica sand on pods population, bristleworms and other sand dwelling creatures? I had sand storms at the beginning but now even if a powerhead loses suction it just moves the sand to small piles. I clean the rocks about once a week. Many concern is if the sand is too fine and does not allow tunnels to be dug by worms, etc... It is a shallow sand bed so I don't anticipate any anoxic zones that would lead to H2S creation(Deep sand beds with fine sand have this problem). 2. Should I add copepods and bristleworms from the LFS to the tank? 3. What should I do with the spot with chaeto growth? If it is chaeto and not something else... http://i30.*******.com/jqq5ie.jpg 4. The live stock that I plan to have is the following. Can you please advice on compatibility: mandarin goby (that is feeding of frozen brine and mysis at the LFS. Will verify that it is feeding before adding one) pair of ocellaris yellow or blue tang(tank is 75g. I plan on getting a small size fish that will be exchanging at LFS when it grews to large for my tank) Cleaner shrimp Some turbosnails if i see that I need to control algae on LR Some nassarius if I notice the sand getting dirty Soft and LPS corals when my light fixture is ready 5. Do diatoms have a negative impact on livestock health or are they just an ugly sight?

08/03/2010, 08:48 AM	#9
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	Tangs don't like chaeto. In fact, it's the only macro algae that survives in my tank with three tangs. BUT, i don't think what you have in the pic is chaeto. I thnk bioballs are better than a sponge, but that is just an opinion with no science behind it. Any non-live rock biomedia will produce NO3. Macro algae and WC for that. Cupra sorb removes cupramine. I would use it at the end of the treatment period, then clean everything with vingar and bleach before returning it to the sump. It is for this additional step, and other issues too, that I would rather use hyposalinity in QT rather than copper. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

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08/03/2010, 03:39 AM	#2
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	1. silica sand is a very sharp sand you can scratch glass with it, where as Aragamax Sand is soft, the diff. should not matter with bristle worms or pods but I would just be worried about sand sifting fish with the sharpness of the sand (however ican't say for sure because i have never used silica sand) also the silica causes diatams (again this may have been proven wrong so can't be sure) 2. adding some pods and bristle worms would be a good thing, they are great scavangers and a food source for fish 3. hard to say what type of algae it is but don't look like cheato, if you have a fuge I would add it there along with a light. 4. your fish list looks fine but IMO I would just stick with fish that you can care for the whole time rather than trading when they get to big. the yellow tang will be fine for it's life. 5. diatoms are IMO just an ugly sight but also a sign that you have extra nutrients in the tank.

08/03/2010, 05:25 AM	#3
Lemeshianos Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 468	Is diatom bloom related to lighting conditions? I had the lights on for 12 hours two days in a row when I got the second bloom. Previously I had made 2 water changes with NSW and no bloom was observed. Does any of the fish in the list eat chaeto? (maybe the yellow tang?) If I go to the LFS and ask to see the mandarin eating the frozen food, is it ok if I add it now or should I avoid it for the time being? I do have plans for a refugium but not for the time being.

08/03/2010, 06:02 AM	#4
1crazymofo Moved On Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: bayside Posts: 45	chaeto isnt digested well

08/03/2010, 06:11 AM	#5
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	the diatom bloom can be due to your lights being old but should come because of the lights for 12 hours, I am guessing extra nutrients in the tank that cause them. I agree cheato is not an algae that is well digested and shouldn't be fed to fish. I would say as long as the mandrin is eating prepared foods he should be fine to add, but I would also suggest a QT for at least 4-6 weeks as with every fish you add to the tank.

08/03/2010, 07:32 AM	#6
Lemeshianos Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 468	I don't want to feed the chaeto to the tang. I want to keep it. That is why I am thinking about breaking that piece off and keeping it in the sump so I can grow it there without the risk of something eating it. A few additional questions for the QT. I have a QT that is broken. I need to replace glass and fix it. I also have a lot of bioballs around 1 inch in diameter. 1. Can I use these in a filter in my sump to develop bacteria so that I can use in the QT? Or is the sponge a better substitute than bioballs. 2. If I have a filter in the sump to keep a bacterial growth for filtration when needed in the QT won't it trap detritus and cause an increase in NO3? 3. Let's say I treat my QT with copper to kill parasites like ich. How can I be sure that when I place the filter back in the sump (when the QT is not needed) I won't be contaminating my display tank?

08/03/2010, 07:41 AM	#7
MCary Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hardin, Montana Posts: 3,142	It's a macroalgae, it may not be cheato. Diatoms are your friends. Diatom use nutrients that other more nuisance algae use. The grow faster and out compete the other algaes. They are easy to clean off. They are food for corals. Scrape the glass and you feed the corals at the same time. They are unsightly, but they go away.

08/03/2010, 08:16 AM	#8
Lemeshianos Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 468	I don't mind them as they appeared the day after the water change with NSW and they go away after 1 or 2 days. Given the reduction of cost and wait time to make a water change I prefer NSW over artificial SW. Sponges have shown growth and feather dusters come out more often when there is fresh NSW. I don't have any corals to see how they behave at NSW.

08/03/2010, 08:58 AM	#10
TampaReefer79 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 3,448	I've had tangs for years that ate chaeto. They like grape calurpa better, but still ate the chaeto. A blue tang would not be a good choice for a 75. I really don't think the yellow would be either, but it's at least a better choice than a hippo.