The economy and our hobby

[romanr]

Glassbox Design has a very interesting article talking about the downward trend in our hobby when analyzing google trends data.

I do think this economy is hitting our hobby hard. One quick look at FS posts and you'll see people getting out in mass and more indicative of our economy is the fact that a $5,000 investment is yielding less than a grand to many who are having to liquidate.

I did have one thought and I'm wondering if some of you agree. Is the state of the economy leaving our hobby with only the "hard-core" enthusiast? Those who would sell their kids and mother before they sold their aquarium!

[KromiX]

I don't agree on your thought at the end....

Why? Because not everyone is having hard financial times, the sectors that are ok, the businesses that are doing well, still have people spending money the same as they were in 2004, so those people who aren't "hardcore" still have tanks and are enjoying hobbies and other expensive hobbies...

Maybe if we entered a Great Depression type era where 24-25% unemployment is occuring, but even then, I'd think that number would have to be higher than just that to see a max exodus, and have only the super-rich or super hardcore to be in the hobby.

[robow]

I live in a pretty poor area so there are not a lot of reefers around anyway. so I guess that makes us all hard core.

[Pmoss]

with women being in the work force unlike in the 30's our current percentage includes more people then it did in eras past. The unemployement issue is closer to the great depression then I think we think.... I think

energy cost are going up (I'm already at $0.179 per khw)... reefs are going away which will drive prices up. I'm thinking the only people left will be the hardcore reefers sooner then later.

[slumlord]

What you say does have some truth to it. Just do a search on craigslist for "fish tank" or "saltwater" and you'll see lots of setups being sold. But I also see lots of newbies just starting up as well. I'm not sure if the amount of newbies just getting into the hobby are offsetting all the folks getting out, but it's a good sign for all involved in this wonderful hobby.

[Uncle Salty 05]

I think it depends on where you live and how well the local economy is doing.
A friend of mine owns a LFS and told me if things don't improve he may be forced to close. There are areas where unemployment has reached 20% or higher. I personally tried to sell the contents of my 180 so I could convert to freshwater but no one could afford to pay anything near what it was worth so I am just toughing it out in hopes that things will get better.
I also broke down a 55 gallon set up with 2x250 watt MH and 2x96 watt actinic PC with a nice wooden stand and a HOB wet/dry with skimmer. I put it on craigslist for $250, a steal right? Didn't sell.

[lucidheights]

the outflow of enthusiasts would not compare to the declining influx of new hobbyists. With less money in hand, a person would be less likely to own pets in general and reefing is no exception

[Uncle Salty 05]

Originally Posted by lucidheights

the outflow of enthusiasts would not compare to the declining influx of new hobbyists. With less money in hand, a person would be less likely to own pets in general and reefing is no exception

Exactly.
A lot of these enthusiastic newbies have no idea how expensive this hobby is and are biting off more than they can chew.

[phenom5]

I've definitely seen the effects locally. Quite a few, long time, active club members are selling their tanks (or trying to), and getting out. I've noticed it's gotten tougher to sell frags & used equipment locally.

My wife & I are both working, but we're also both underemployed. So I've slowed down on buying corals, and I really have to prioritize when I'm buying drygoods. If it really came down to it, the tank would be one of the first, if not the first to go. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

[Paco]

I don't know if it's worse now than before but I know this is a hobby with a pretty high turnover rate. Heck, most hobbies have a pretty high turn over rate, but this one has high ongoing costs which means it's more visible when people get out, because they are breaking stuff down and selling it.

For example: I like photography and have about $5k in equipment. I haven't taken many pictures in 2010, so it's sitting in my closet. I don't feel the need to sell it though, because the carrying costs are zero and it doesn't take up much space.

On the other hand if money were tighter (it's tight already) and I had to quit keeping up with my tank, I'd have to sell the fish and other livestock and then who wants an empty 120 gallon aquarium sitting around? I can't store it anywhere, so I'm more likely to sell it.

I think it's the same with boats -- they cost you big bucks every year, whether you use it or not, unless you just let it rot. I have a friend with a 26' Formula and he told me he averages $5k a year in maintenance -- that doesn't include taking it out!! So when time's tight, you drop that ish like it's hot.

[eb8919]

I just recently had a discussion with my lfs owner about this. I would also like to add the area i live in has been hit hard by the recent 'recession'. My lfs owner seems to believe that hes been getting much busier. For every reefer that leaves the hobby, he sees more and more coming in and starting up. I don't now if its based on location or whatever but like I said...I don't live in the greatest area and the trend seems to be on the rise.

[agreeive?fish]

The economy in my area is tight to say the least but ithasnt been good since the oil bust of the early 80s.. i spend a couple hours every saturday at the one good lfs in town and its a constant stream of people albeit i would say 90% are dog grooming but the fish department seems to have the regulars and thats the gist of thier buisness as they dont carry other "pets"

the terrible lfs is still around because they do sellother pets and i stepped in it the other day just to see if it has inproved and the saltwater section had a couple fish and the fresh water section had a bunch of fish but the tanksthat had fish in them were only 1/2full of water and several of the mars type units were completely empty of fish or water and in varrious stages of disassymbly... is that an indication of that store going even further down hill orjust a normal event for this particular store i dont know because i have seen it like that before on severaloccassions just in diffrent varriations of which fish were still there and wich mars units were disassembled ect..but they have drasticly increased the amount of expensive birds that they have..

i dont know if things will get better or worse in my area for hobbiest/lfs owners or not

[trb]

In our area there are several smaller fish stores that have opened up in the past year. One is open in the back of another store the owner runs - that main store pays the overhead. The fish store is just extra and he gives great prices to our club members. He's also a used parts broker I guess you could say, buying complete setups and parting them out. There are several other members of our club that have opened fish stores or coral stores in their homes and many of our members are using these new places to stock their tanks at lower prices.

We do have a fair number of people getting out of the hobby, but like was said, there are still many that are getting into it. Luckily our unemployment is not as bad as other areas, but we still have it.

[jgrog76]

I have been in this hobby now for almost 20 years. Used equipment for most of those years has been basically worthless. It has only been in the last few (prior to the recession years) that the market for used goods was even close to that of new. Just because you decide to spend 5000 on a custom tank set-up does not mean it is "worth 5000" when you need or want to sell it. And the more "custom" you make something the less it is worth to potential buyers because %99 of the time it is made for YOU not what others want their tank to look like. I just spent over $1000 for my new tank. I know I would be lucky to sell the whole thing for $200. THIS IS A HOBBY! Not some investment scheme, business, or money making oportunity. I keep tanks because I enjoy doing it. I would consider myself a highly succesfull reefkeeper if one day I could offset the monthly maintnance cost of keeping the tank by selling frags. I know I will never get to the point that I would "make money" off of my tank above what I have and will continue to spend on it. Just because something is expensive does not mean you can make or get your money back from selling it.

[pciscott]

I think all people make choices including the hard core reefer. I see beautiful systems put on the market weekly for sale, some from good friends who are part of this culture. When money is tight and Southern California's wonderful Tier 5 on your electric bill at 30 cents per KW this hobby gets out of control fast. I have a friend who shut down a 180 gallon system with 2 400 watt halides and VHO's and his electric bill dropped from $400 to $115, talk about Hardcore. Crazy what we spend and yes I give my wife a tough time when she gets her hair done for $100 per month

[jgrog76]

In my area what I see is people downsizing more than getting out. I do not think people properly plan for how much it costs to keep a 150g plus tank running in maintnance costs.

[diciple]

With out a doubt im probable one of the least to do (poor) folk's on R/C.I've kept reef's since 92? i downsized to a 20 gallon from a 75 .No matter what i REALLY CAN"T imagine not having my little tank! It has been a thearapy for me and i wonder at all the T.O.M etc and hope for the day i can afford the corals etc of my dream's.So im addicted to this hobby and will contiue to work for coals HAHAHA!It is a shame thing's are so costly in this hobby.But the aquarist out threre,who have been hurt by this resession can just HOLD ON things will get better,and we may have to sacrafice the big for the little .But i remember when all i had was some liverock and was sooo,intrigued by the life in it the corals were the icing on the cake!the best to all you reefers out ther Rich

[NaClWater]

I think if the economy and unemployment continues at its current rate, you will see a trend towards downsizing. AIO and Nanos will see more sales than their larger brethren.

Sent from my T-Mobile G1 using Tapatalk

[D-Nak]

I see our hobby much like I see the real estate market. People are losing their homes (tanks) but there will always be people snatching up the bank owned homes, looking to get a good deal. But I don't think people will stop buying homes (tanks) just because the economy is bad. They may opt for a smaller system, nano, etc. but the interest will still be there.

[Reefphile]

I agree with many posts here. With the continued high unemployment and home foreclosure rates, many reefers seem to be leaving the hobby not out of choice but as a necessity. This hobby is like an addiction which has no end. It's about constant upgrade and improvement. As such, I believe that if and when the economy roars backup those who get back on their feet will re-enter the hobby.

A statistic that would be interesting is the number of regular RC users who no longer frequent this site.

Andy

[Drewbaby]

I think there is a slight connection between the economy and this hobby, however this hobby has ranked 2nd for years. If you setup a system that can for the most part sustain it self with the exception of feedings then your only expenses are electricity, salt for water changes, and food. So ultimately if you plan the setup well and use all high efficiency equipment and don't overstock the tank you can keep a reef tank cheaply. I was laid off twice in the last 2 years and was unemployed for 1 1/2 during those 2 years and I have kept my 55 gallon reef and my 180 fish only.

I think what happens is that most people panic about money and see their tank as a way to cash in on an investment, but with the way things are your lucky to get a 1/4th of what you put into even if you started with all used. It's just not the right time to get out of the hobby in my opinion, but I guess you can consider me one of those hard core reefer till I die types. I've already got plans for my next tank in my next house.

Dedication is key in this hobby some people just buy a tank and throw in some cool fish then 3 months later when the new toy gets old it's on to the next phase

[d0ughb0y]

when there is 9% unemployment, the other 91% are employed. thats why its so depressing to be laid off and still see dept stores still packed with people.

[flatout4fish]

Originally Posted by jgrog76

Just because something is expensive does not mean you can make or get your money back from selling it.

So True. It is currently a buyers market. The LFS are running sales to get people in the door. Reefers are selling their equipment cheep. Want to up-grade...now is the time. If you have the cash Buy Buy Buy. The economy will come back it always does.

[cindre2000]

I do believe that the recession is creating some issues, especially in heavily hit areas. But I really think that the stores getting hit the hardest are the ones with the unsound business plans or the ones out of touch or the ones already on unstable footing. We are currently going to the slowest part of the year when it comes to sales, give it a few weeks and things will perk back up.

As for individuals, it has always been hard to sell whole systems for close to what they are 'worth'; made harder by frugality that is more prevelent right now.

[Paco]

One of the LFS owners whose business model is mostly based on service (he runs like six trucks, six days a week -- he's busy) told me that his business improves when the economy's down because people are staying home more so they're investing in what's at home instead of going out. An interesting perspective.