Newbie Build Thread - TheBends

[TheBends]

I have lurked here for quite a while and have spent a great deal of time outlining my first Saltwater build and decided creating a thread dedicated to the build process would be beneficial to everyone. I have kept freshwater fish for 3 years now and although I am not completely getting away from freshwater, lurking on this forum has made me want a salt tank.

This thread will be a written thought process for myself and I highly encourage criticism, I may think I know what I am doing but some of you out there know far more than I will ever know. This build will take a loooong time as I am actually in the process of wrapping up a 90 Gallon Central American Cichlid build - I plan on collecting bits and pieces that I need over the next semester and hope to actually put this thing together over winter break.

The goal for this tank is to provide a long, shallow reef tank with a few fishy inhabitants - it should also be reasonably inexpensive but I don't want to re-do this process in a year. I know that all sounds impossible however by drawing this out over a long period of time I am hoping to make things work - graduate student budget and all.

My "Plan" thus far:

Display Tank

• 65 Gallon Glass with rim by GlassCages
• 48 x 18 x 17
• Starphire front Panel
• Reef-Ready
• 4" Deep Sand Bed
• Aquatic Life 48" x 108W Marine T5
• 2 x Hydor Koralia Nano (50 Gallon version)

Sump

• 20 Gallon Glass
• 2 Sections, Skimmer and Return separated by 3 baffle bubble trap
• Skimmer - Unknown at this time, suggestions?
• Mag-Drive 500 Return Pump
• 300 Watt Heater

Refugium

• 5 Gallon Glass
• 4" Deep Sand Bed
• Live Rock

Stand

• RocketEngineer's Stand
• 60W x 24D x 36H

Livestock

• 2x Clownfish (Black and Whites)
• Yellow Watchman Goby
• 3x Longfin Fairy Wrasse
• Tiger Snapping Shrimp
• Blood Red Fire Shrimp
• Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
• Bluefin Angelfish / Flame Angelfish
• Not a clue what to look for concerning corals, anemones, etc

Anything highlighted I already own, it's not much but it makes me think I have a headstart

Stocking:
The Angel's are my biggest concern because I am not sure if they will be too much for the tank, at 7 gallons / inch of fish I am way over my limit. I would really like the Flame Angel for its color however all the other fish and shrimp originate primarily from Sri Lanka as does the Bluefin Angel. If it is too much, it is too much - just looking for opinions.

Lighting:
I understand that the lights I have picked out aren't quite enough for a reef setup, I plan on supplementing them with LEDs in the future however for the mean time I will be using these or similarly priced lights.

Rimmed Tank:
I HATE the look of a rimmed tank - so why am I getting one? Well for a couple of reasons:
(Usually) Significantly cheaper than rimless tanks
(Usually) Don't look as nice when implementing a DSB
This is not my ultimate tank, my ultimate tank X years down the road will be rimless

Fuge / Skimmer Separation:
I plan on building a cross beam / level in the stand which will house the fuge. This will allow me to "T" off the drain line from the display and pipe it into the Fuge with a flow control valve and then gravity feed the Fuge into the sump.
Why only a 5 gallon? Because it's what I have. If I had a spare 10 gallon, the fuge would be 10, etc.

Why is the stand so FREAKING huge?
I currently have the afforementioned 20 gallon tank resting at the edge of my dining table. I have absolutely loved having the fish around while dining and post-meals - why does this affect the stand? The new tank (obviously) won't fit on a dining table without taking up the entire surface so I will be pushing the stand against the wall, and the table against the stand. This pushes the stand about 30" away from the counter, my plan for the stand is to "enlarge" the counter space by about 12" by matching the counter's height and depth. I have already built a RocketEngineer stand once before and am excited to build another - thanks so much for your design!

This thread will have TONS of pictures, a budget which I will be posting shortly, and some neat Excel spreadsheets I have made in order to help with the build process

Please criticize, ask me if I have thought about XYZ, I want to make sure I get this right!

[hoffy02]

Sounds liike a great start..

Why the 4" sand bed in the display? I would cut back to 1/2", 1.5" max... gives more room in the tank and you can add to the depth in the refugium.. That is if you are aiming for the benifits of a DSB... even better would be a RDSB..

Subscribed and looking forward to the build!!

Edit*

Ive read the deep sand bed isnt beneficial until around 6"...

[TheBends]

Originally Posted by hoffy02

Sounds liike a great start..

Why the 4" sand bed in the display? I would cut back to 1/2", 1.5" max... gives more room in the tank and you can add to the depth in the refugium.. That is if you are aiming for the benifits of a DSB... even better would be a RDSB..

As far as I understood, the shrimp gobies and the shrimp appreciate the DSB, if 4" is more than enough for them - how much do they need?

Pending enough sand and space in the fuge, it will have a RDSB but for now I am only planning on at least 4".

Subscribed and looking forward to the build!!

Thanks for the encouragement!

[hoffy02]

Oh my bad... skimmed by the stock list.. Not sure about the gobies.. I know jawfish need a deeper bed but unsure about the shrimp gobies..

[Sugar Magnolia]

I have a tiger pistol in my tank and the sand bed is anywhere from 1" in places to 3" in others. Be prepared to have the pistol move a LOT of sand. Be sure when you do set up your tank that you place the rocks carefully and securely so when the pistol is moving sand about it doesn't topple the rocks. My base rocks are large and heavy so he just tunnels right under them with no shifting.

[TheBends]

Originally Posted by hoffy02

Oh my bad... skimmed by the stock list.. Not sure about the gobies.. I know jawfish need a deeper bed but unsure about the shrimp gobies..

I just read somewhere that the sandbed should be as deep as the length of the species burrowing - so for the yellow watchman up to about 3". This will save me some space in the display and I can redirect that sand into the Fuge for a RDSB - thanks for your input!

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

I have a tiger pistol in my tank and the sand bed is anywhere from 1" in places to 3" in others. Be prepared to have the pistol move a LOT of sand. Be sure when you do set up your tank that you place the rocks carefully and securely so when the pistol is moving sand about it doesn't topple the rocks. My base rocks are large and heavy so he just tunnels right under them with no shifting.

I will be using the light diffuser panel below the sand and securing rocks to PVC or similar and to the panel as well - hopefully it will be sturdy enough. Is the 1" to 3" a result of your tiger pistol or was that the original intention?

[kimberlee]

I've seen first hand the importance of a deep sand bed. When I set up my tank it had a inch and 1/2 deep sand bed. I was fighting to keep my tank stable, about three weeks ago I added 2 1/2" of new sand, now there are two distinct layers and everything has stabilized almost on its own.

[TheBends]

Originally Posted by kimberlee

I've seen first hand the importance of a deep sand bed. When I set up my tank it had a inch and 1/2 deep sand bed. I was fighting to keep my tank stable, about three weeks ago I added 2 1/2" of new sand, now there are two distinct layers and everything has stabilized almost on its own.

It sounds like I will be going with my original 4" sand bed in the display and potentially a RDSB in the sump - thanks for all of everyone's input!

Some updates:
Tank / Overflow
The tank will be drilled from the factory - standard is two holes in the bottom of the tank. This would allow me to do a Herbie style overflow however I have really been eyeing the Silent-Fail Safe system and will be working with the manufacturer to provide three holes in the top for a coast to coast glass or acrylic overflow box.

Return Pump
In addition to that, I have come to the conclusion that more flow is BETTER. I will not be using the Mag-Drive MD5 but instead will be using the MD9.5 for an additional 490 gph flow (taking in to account head pressure).

Fuge Overflow
I am not sure how to do the overflow on the Fuge since it will be a separate 5 gallon (maybe 10 gallon) tank that is mounted above the sump and below the display. Ideally, this means that the display's "drain" can "T" off into the Fuge but how do you get water back out of the Fuge and into the sump? I could simply drill a hole at the desired water level and pipe it down (adding a small overflow box if necessary). Correct me if I am wrong but would the "drain" from the display be piped into the bottom left of the back pane (for example) and the overflow be piped out of the upper right of the back pane?Is this how most people running this set up accomplish this?

Thanks!

Mike

[neoalchemist74]

If at all possible try to go with a tank thats deeper front to back, like a 90 gal. The depth will allow much more dynamic aquascaping and add dimension. Plus you will really benifit from thee extra water volume and you will really want the space in the future.
Also be prepared to replace those korallias often. I don't know about the new ones but the first and second gen ones seemed to only last me a couple of months.

[TheBends]

Originally Posted by neoalchemist74

If at all possible try to go with a tank thats deeper front to back, like a 90 gal. The depth will allow much more dynamic aquascaping and add dimension. Plus you will really benifit from thee extra water volume and you will really want the space in the future.
Also be prepared to replace those korallias often. I don't know about the new ones but the first and second gen ones seemed to only last me a couple of months.

Thanks for the input! Unfortunately my tank options are limited by both space and funding. As much as I would like a larger tank, the additional cost of lighting, etc is not there. I also am fully away that this is not my ultimate tank and as much as I would like to build my ultimate tank now, I live in an apartment and am unable to do so.

Has anyone else had any recent experience with the Koralia Nanos? What are some recommendations for other smallish wavemakers that don't cost a fortune? I would prefer multiple small wavemakers combined with the output from my return as opposed to one giant wavemaker. Thoughts?

Also, last night featured the introduction of the inhabitants into the 90 gallon freshwater system. 4 of my barbs were added along with the purchase of 16 others - Cichlids will be added in a couple of weeks once the barbs have grown past mouth-size






Just realized those pictures look TERRIBLE - any suggestions? It's a Canon PowerShot SD120015

Unfortunately the sump is still offline due to a defective return pump and the retailer has a 2-3 WEEK exchange process So for now the massive HOB Filter is sitting where the eshopps overflow goes.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Originally Posted by TheBends

Is the 1" to 3" a result of your tiger pistol or was that the original intention?

It's due to the pistol's nocturnal home improvement projects. He's an ambitious little booger!

[TheBends]

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

It's due to the pistol's nocturnal home improvement projects. He's an ambitious little booger!

"Nocturnal Home Improvement Projects"

I realized that those 2 Nanos and the return plumbing may not be enough flow for some of the inhabitants but I don't want to be giving up TOO much real estate to unnatural reef fixtures. After reading the thread on surge devices, how would adding the much larger version of the Koralia on a timer serve as a surge device? What are some better options?

[TheBends]

Update:
Well plans have changed (No surprises here) but only a bit. I don't have funding for the large tank now however I did pick up a 29 gallon at Petco's $1 / gallon sale. I painted the back black with kyrlon fusion and it looks awesome. For now it will have to hold all of the equipment but eventually the plan is to turn this tank over to my freshwater sump.

Live Rock / Sand
I purchased live rock (40 pounds) and live sand off of a craigslist ad and it has been scaped and cycling for the past 4 weeks. I ended up with a 2.5" - 3" sand bed and some small bristle worms in the process.

The Numbers Game
Currently, nitrates and nitrites are reading zeroes across the board however my PH appears SUPER low (6.0) for some reason. From what I have read this is not quite logical so I will be heading to the LFS tomorrow and picking up a different test kit. I am using Instant Ocean salt mixed to 1.024 at the moment. I did purchase an RO unit and have been ONLY using RO water thus far.

Cycling
Cycling has been interesting because I really haven't SEEN a cycle. The LR and LS came with a hermit crab who has survived the entire ordeal. I never saw a nitrate or nitrite spike however I did see a ton of small white.. things... floating at the top of the tank one day that appeared to be dead somethings. I didn't realize the coralline was so sensitive to air, I had the LR out of water for maybe 5-7 minutes and I have gotten a lot of die-off, is this normal? Parts of the rock that were red are now brownish but it doesn't look hairy, just brown.

Clean-Up Crew
CUC is on the way from reefcleaners.org - I went with the 20 gallon CUC because I plan on having a very light bioload.

Lighting
4 x 36" T5 fixture is on its way from fishneedit. I went with 2 blues and 2 whites at 10k.

Flow
For flow I have 2 240 gph Koralia Nanons however one broke so I am down to one plus a random powerhead I had floating around. I know I will some more flow so I am working on coming up with a solution that doesn't require spending too much money. The purple mounting peg on the Koralia snapped off, Hydor has offered to exchange it if I send it back to them BUT I am not sure that even if I replace it, it will supply enough flow. In this case I will keep the broken Koralia as a salt mixer and buy a larger wavermaker - thoughts?

Plans for livestock and corals:
2 x Clownfish (Either Saddlebacks or ClarkIIs, leaning towards the latter)
1-2 Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
Lot's of ZOAS
Maybe a frogspawn and / or hammer
MUCH later down the line I would like a carpet or Haddoni, perhaps once I move into the larger tank

[TheBends]

any input from the night crew?

[muttley000]

I don't prefer that much blue, I would go 3 10 K and one blue, but it's a matter of preference. I think you would be better off waiting until you had some green algae going before the CUC. I also suspect your test kit is off on the PH, not sure how it could get this low. Did you add a source of ammonia, you may have enough bacterial population already if you moved the rock a short distance. Good luck!

[TheBends]

From my understanding the bulbs in the fishneedit fixture are a bit lacking, at this point I wanted to be able to control the blues as a pre and post-light and the 10ks as daylights with the ability to switch them independently.

Once I move to the larger tank (or these bulbs go out) I will replace with what an updated opinion - I do appreciate your input though.

Something goofy must be up with the test kit because it seems to be accurate on my freshwater tank but now I am not so sure.

I didn't an external source of ammonia, I hoped that the movement of the live rock plus the churning of the sand would instigate a cycle but I don't think I have seen one as of yet and the tank is coming up on 4 weeks now.

[theatrus]

Originally Posted by TheBends

The Numbers Game
Currently, nitrates and nitrites are reading zeroes across the board however my PH appears SUPER low (6.0) for some reason. From what I have read this is not quite logical so I will be heading to the LFS tomorrow and picking up a different test kit. I am using Instant Ocean salt mixed to 1.024 at the moment. I did purchase an RO unit and have been ONLY using RO water thus far.

Cycling
Cycling has been interesting because I really haven't SEEN a cycle. The LR and LS came with a hermit crab who has survived the entire ordeal. I never saw a nitrate or nitrite spike however I did see a ton of small white.. things... floating at the top of the tank one day that appeared to be dead somethings. I didn't realize the coralline was so sensitive to air, I had the LR out of water for maybe 5-7 minutes and I have gotten a lot of die-off, is this normal? Parts of the rock that were red are now brownish but it doesn't look hairy, just brown.

Flow
For flow I have 2 240 gph Koralia Nanons however one broke so I am down to one plus a random powerhead I had floating around. I know I will some more flow so I am working on coming up with a solution that doesn't require spending too much money. The purple mounting peg on the Koralia snapped off, Hydor has offered to exchange it if I send it back to them BUT I am not sure that even if I replace it, it will supply enough flow. In this case I will keep the broken Koralia as a salt mixer and buy a larger wavermaker - thoughts?

Plans for livestock and corals:
2 x Clownfish (Either Saddlebacks or ClarkIIs, leaning towards the latter)
1-2 Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
Lot's of ZOAS
Maybe a frogspawn and / or hammer
MUCH later down the line I would like a carpet or Haddoni, perhaps once I move into the larger tank

Get your pH checked out - also take a reading of Alkalinity. 6.0 would be death for lots of livestock.

Coraline is not sensitive to air. You might want to double check alkalinity levels (and while you're at it, calcium). If they drop too low, coraline will bleach and disappear.

I've done the "instant reef" setup and tank moves for years and never had to go through a whole cycle due to established and well transported live rock. A lot depends on where the rock was (just a holding bin with no food source, shipped in boxes, etc all are suboptimal). If its in a tank with livestock or attached to one, you really won't have a cycle if the rock was not exposed to air or adverse conditions for too long.

[TheBends]

Getting PH checked out today and will pick up the other test kits as well. Live rock came from a well-established tank, the same tank as where the sand came from.

I will not be adding livestock until everything is settled as I have 0 desire to kill anything.

[TheBends]

Test results:

LFS (SeaChem Brand, I think)
PH ~8.0
Calcium ~400
Salinity ~1.024

Home (Nutrafin Brand)
PH ~7.5
Ammonia ~1.0 mg/L
Nitrate Less than 5 mg/L
Nitrite 0 mg/L
Salinity ~1.025

Unfortunately Alkalinity tests were not carried at either location however the good LFS is ordering them for next week as well as individual Calcium kits.

Thoughts?

[theatrus]

Is your home test kit the one which gave a 6.0 before? If so, I wouldn't put much weight behind this number either. You're also seeing a noticeable level of ammonia, this is lethal to livestock and implies you are still in the cycling state. Note that many test kits have two color cards for fresh and salt, make sure you're using the salt one.

From the LFS tests, your actually doing just fine. A pH in the 7.8 to 8.2 range is normal and expected. I personally like running salinity at 1.026 but 1.024 is perfectly natural as well.

[TheBends]

The Nutrafin test kit is a brand new one - the old one was dip stick style and a different brand.

I planned on getting the salinity up to 1.025 but right now it is just a hair low.

Is 7.5 TOO low?

[TheBends]

I realize where I may have goofed. I read somewhere that water changes during the cycle should not be done however after some more reading this morning it looks like just the opposite.

In this case I plan on doing 10% water changes every other day for the next week or so - this should hopefully take care of my ammonia issue as well as allow me to gradually bring the salinity up to where I want it.

Also, another thing to note is that this tank has only had sunlight from a window and no HO lighting and won't until Monday as that is when my fixture should arrive.

In addition to the CUC, I ordered some Chaeto and have plans for a HOB fuge built of some parts I have lying around - will update later tonight with a hopefully installed system.

[theatrus]

I'd personally do water changes - at this stage its not bad to do larger ones.

Good luck

[TheBends]

Just re-tested, Ammonia is still showing up but pH seems more like 8.0 - woohoo! Did a 15% water change today and will do that every other day for 3 changes and see where that gets me.

Got the parts for the fuge(s) however I will be waiting until the lights show up so I can get everything fitting properly.

[TheBends]

Test 11:25am 10/2/10

PH ~7.5 (Unstable, fluctuating between 7.5 and 8.0)
Ammonia 0.6 mg/L (Slowly dropping)
Salinity ~1.0265

Water is "cooking" and will be doing another 15% water change tomorrow morning.