LIVE ROCK AND DRY ROCK QUESTIONS 100-125 gallons

[reefer1121]

hello everyone, i am starting my first reef tank (100-125 gal) and i have some questions on how to use live rock and dry rock. i've read that using dry rock as a foundation for more elegant live rock helps save money. and that the dry rock will eventually become live again .

i just wanted to know if there are any drawbacks to this approach.

and is there any suggested ratio of live rock to dry rock that should be used?

i am open to any and all suggestions. thanks

[lokian]

same boat as you... heard different things so i'm kinda curious... i was told 50/50 base to live..

[Lynnmw1208]

I was under the assumption that you could fill most of your tank with the dry rock and add a small amount of live rock to "seed" the system. I was going to do this in my 125g. I'll probably add 50lbs of dry rock and 10 or so lbs of live rock. Supposedly it takes around 5 months or so for the corraline to spread onto the dry rocks significantly.

Here are the dry rocks i'm looking at http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...-fiji-dry-rock

I found a video that shows it takes 80 days to have the dry rock start turning live
http://www.fishnetwork.tv/fishnetwor...Coralline.html

[reefer1121]

oo ok thanks for the input guys. hopefully someone with more experience with this will help us out

[HanoverFist]

You can get coralline algae starter packs from IPSF.
If you plan to add the bacteria separately this can help you avoid all the bad hitchhikers on live rock. Just dry rock, some live sand or bacteria starters and that coralline starter and you're set.

You wouldn't get the "biological diversity" of a live rock. But personally, I'd rather have a pest-free tank that looked nice and had only what I'd added than one that had a ton of bugs and crap I didnt even add and probably can't identify. That last parts the killer for me. :P


EDIT: p.s. IPSF has pretty much everything you need to get a tank "alive" and functional - biologically speaking. Fairly popular and reputable retailer too. Many people use their critters.

[Reef Leviathan]

I've also been doing a lot of research into this topic. From what I've found these seem to be the main points I've come across.

Dry Rock
Pros
Lighter which means more rock pre poumd
Shipping is cheaper because of it being lighter and can always be shipped dry
No bad hitch hikers

Cons
No good hitch hikers
Slower cycling time EDIT -- (you will need something to start the cycling process. Que the seed live rock. I thought I'd seen someone use a piece of shrimp, I think it was the guy who does rickets reef on youtube but I forget if he used anything else. By the way if your reading this new updates ?)
In some cases less pores

Live Rock
Pros
Quick cycling time
Good hitch hikers (I've heard of people getting corals and such off live rock that they purchased)

Cons
Pricey, costs more because of water weight
Bad Hitchers

Just a few things I've heard tell of in my readings and for me using mainly dry rock would be the way I'd go and just get some good seed rocks from a friends trusted system. Also I seen people make there own rock so they could make it any shape they want. I thought that was kinda neat. Hope this helped.

- Levi

[HanoverFist]

Originally Posted by Reef Leviathan

Dry Rock
Cons
Slower cycling time


Live Rock
Pros
Quick cycling time

- Levi

There's a bit of misinformation there. But only from lack of detail :P

See, dry rock has nothing to contribute in the cycle. Nothing alive so nothing to die or add ammonia to the tank.

Live rock has die-off. Dead stuff must be processed. So live rock actually creates a cycle or will extend one. Dry rock just sits there while the tank cycles around and on it.

Using dry rock may make for a long, slower cycle - but only because there's no dead tissue or established bacteria colonies. Both of these can be rectified with a piece of dead shrimp and a handful of live sand from an established tank (or a bacteria starter kit).

Hope that helps.

[Reef Leviathan]

Oh sorry, my mistake. I should have added you needed something to cycle when using the dry stuff

[jeff@zina.com]

Originally Posted by reefer1121

i just wanted to know if there are any drawbacks to this approach.

and is there any suggested ratio of live rock to dry rock that should be used?

No drawbacks, and it's very common. One rule of thumb is to use base rock where it won't be seen as much, that way the tank "looks" better quicker. Also, there are various levels of live rock, usually the LFS will sell "premium" rock which has nicer stuff or better looks. You can use poorer quality live rock with a few premium pieces mixed in to get the look you want quicker.

My recommendation, worth absolutely nothing, is to use your own judgment and your wife's approval. The faster you want it looking better, the more it will cost. 50% base, 35% live rock and 15% premium is usually a good mix of affordability and looks. But it will be six months or more before it looks like you bought 100% premium rock.

Jeff

[lokian]

Originally Posted by jeff@zina.com

My recommendation, worth absolutely nothing, is to use your own judgment and your wife's approval. The faster you want it looking better, the more it will cost. 50% base, 35% live rock and 15% premium is usually a good mix of affordability and looks. But it will be six months or more before it looks like you bought 100% premium rock.

Jeff

hehehe the angry spouse fish... kills all things wanted in tank

[lokian]

dont want to steal the thread but how bad would it smell to cycle with uncured LR?

reason asking is that you can always get that cheaper then cured LR... about $1/Lb less .

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by lokian

dont want to steal the thread but how bad would it smell to cycle with uncured LR?

reason asking is that you can always get that cheaper then cured LR... about $1/Lb less .

With all the costs associated with setting up a SW tank why would you try and save 80 bucks that way?

Why not just use more dry rock and save yourself 75% of the cost of live rock.
Just use 50% dry and 50% live, or as I did 95% dry and just a few good pieces of live rock for seeding. Just takes longer, but I think it might be the same speed as using uncured, maybe faster?

[Brettm3535]

I am currently in the same boat. I just got up and running my new tank five days ago and so far I have not seen anything more than 0.3 ammonia in the tank. I have added approx 20lbs of dry rock and approx 10 lbs of cured live rock from my old tank. My question is to start the cycle a little faster would a cube or two of frozen mysis shrimp work? I currently feed it to my clowns and tang for a little snack getting away from the dry food pellets that I feed daily. Just wondering if that mysis shrimp would be enough to kick stat the cycle?

[Palting]

You have a tang and clowns in a 5 day old tank. Hmmm. Bad boy .

Anyhoo, you don't need to kick start the cycle. You already have ammonia, so your cycle has started. Keep feeding the fish, they will pee and poo, and your cycle will proceed. Get a CUC if you don't have any yet. Make sure to keep an eye on that ammonia, and get more aggressive with water changes otherwise your tang and clown may die.

[khaosinc]

I'll never build a tank w/ live rock again. So much easier to take your time with a some nice looking base rock, get everything exactly how you want it, and secure it without worrying about it drying out, or suprise hitchhikers etc...

Once its set up with dry sand and base rock, get about a cup of LS from a local reefer with a nice tank, and a couple bits of LR. Everything else will come soon enough on frags and snall shells and the like.

[jeff@zina.com]

Basically, there are a million ways to set up a reef tank, from dry sand and dry rock to live sand, live water, live rock and cycled filter materials. The closer to the first part you are, the longer it will be before you have a fully functioning tank. At the latter end, you can throw fish and corals in as soon as your temperature, pH and salinity are stable. Naturally, the dollar cost increases the closer you get to the "instant" reef. Most LFS will sell you a biocube with everything ready to go, delivered and running in your home or office. If you're in a hurry and money isn't the big issue, it's a great way to go.

Jeff

[Brettm3535]

Thanks for the help, I dont have the clowns and tang in the new tank they are still sitting in my old one waiting to move into their new home, but I will keep testing the ammonia. Thanks.

[Gregthos]

Not to mention your base rock WILL go live in time mine has.

[reefer1121]

Thanks for all of the advice guys. I definitley want some live rock for some added biological diversity, but I'll probably use mostly dry rock. Are most lfs willing 2 just give away some of their live sand and water right away? Or do most of them charge for stuff like that

And I would also like to know if anyone would be able to reccomeend a reputable online retailer for live rock (and other livestock)?

[monotreme_man]

i did pretty much 100% dry rock (which, as it is dead coral, is just as porous as
liver rock), couple with a few pounds of GARF grunge. worked just fine.

[monotreme_man]

there are lots of good vendors.
for people beginning a tank, i would recommend reefcleaners.org;
they sell good clean up crews and thats where i got my dead rock as well.
(although these days, marco rocks and BRS also sell similar stuff.)

[jeff@zina.com]

Originally Posted by reefer1121

Are most lfs willing 2 just give away some of their live sand and water right away?

If they aren't willing to give you a cup of sand to get you started, they aren't really worth giving your money to.

I have one LFS that sells water from their reef system for $1 a gallon, the others will sell premixed salt water but it's not from their system, it's replacement water. Not sure that either is really worth the money, live water isn't really helpful if you're just starting and not buying all live sand and rock as well. It can be nice if you have a nano tank, especially when a gallon is a 30% water change.

Jeff

[Lynnmw1208]

Dr foster and smith liveaquaria sells some live rock at pretty good prices as well. http://www.liveaquaria.com/

[reefer1121]

oo ok thanks. what exactly is GARF grunge?

p.s. sorry for all of these rookie questions