Ick Treatments

[dafunkyman]

Since I just started in the hobby I dont know too much about diseases. Around a month and a week or two weeks after first introducing fish to the tank, I believe I have ick. I spent the whole day researching and came to the conclusion that I have ick, and I am a newbie. The reason I say I have ick is becasue there are very small white spots on my fish. I read that there is another white spot disease but the spots are bigger. Also I hear that ick starts in the fins of fish and my fish that are not covered in spots have some on their fins. And I am a newbie because the suspected carrier, my wrasse, was purchased from a chain store. Yes, I know that was stupid. A few days ago I was going to return him to a LFS for store credit but the owner sent an email about being scared of chain store fish and asked me if I could keep him for a few days as a quarantine to make sure he was not diseased. I had him for a week when I got that email. Today I have had him for a week and 6 days. I first noticed something odd a day or two ago. Being a newbie, I did not worry about it and though it was because of something simple. I noticed my fish ate slower and less. My thought feed them less for a day or two because they may be full and not hungry. "Sighs and smacks head" So in my reading I found all the methods that I think I could do. These are Hyposalinity, Freshwater Dip, Copper, and I think I heard of antibiotics.
First, do antibiotics exist for ick and what would I use? Now for the other three. Can I combine two and have a hyposalinity quarantine tank with a few fresh dips? Or can I have any combination of the three. Now what I am sure of is that I am setting up a quarantine tank. I heard that inverts dont take well to copper, Lr and coral absorbs copper, I dont want to stress my inverts, and I dont want the ick to have a chance to live in the substrate. I have a swing bar hydrometer, another bad move but it was all I could find. Now I hear that these are less accurate than the floater types and I understand why. With copper, I need a copper test kit, and I think that is complicated. For hyposalinity, I need an accurate hydrometer. And freshwater dip, I think will put lots of stress on the fish. What do y'all think is the best method for me?

[shifty51008]

IMO only stick to 1 treatment.

hyposalinity when done correct will need to have a refractometer and you must keep the salinity at a constant 1.009 as ich can still survive at 1.010

fresh water dips are useless on ich IMO.

copper - more harsh on fish IMO but will kill ich if dosed correctly.

either way these treatments will have to be used in a hospital tank. (bare tank, no live rock or sand) just a filter, heater and some PVC pipes for the fish to hide. and must leave the tank that the fish came from fishless for 6-8 weeks.

all fish that were in the same tank as the fish with ich will also have to be treated, even if they don't show signs of ich they still have it now.

[Palting]

Man, I think question categories come in waves. We had a cycling question wave, a live rock wave, now an Ick wave.

To treat Ick, you treat all your fish in QT, and you treat the main tank by leaving it fishless. Leave all your inverts in the msin tank. Coincidentally, the time required to treat fish in QT is the same time required to leave them main tank fishless. Has to do with letting all the Ich go through their life cycle and die before they can complete it.

Do not combine treatments. Pick one. Hyposalinity and copper treatments have been proven here in this forum. They are the only two I would use.

Here is my hyposalinity thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1892446

Here is Rayn's Copper thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1868689

[rayn]

If you do a QT with copper go bare tank with a few PVC pipes for hiding. Rock and sand will soak and then leach out the copper. That, I believe was my mistake. Also once a tank is used as a copper QT don't try and reuse it for anything else.
A twenty long would be plenty, unless you have large fish that would need more room.

[steelhead77]

Or you could take a "wait and see" approach. Ich is not an instant killer. As long as they are still eating and swimming normal, many fish can and will fight it off. Why not wait a couple days and see what happens? Keep feeding them (garlic will stimulate eating) and keep your water parameters pristine. The main thing you don't want to do is stress them out. This only makes it worse. And there is no better way to stress them out than by chasing them around a tank with a net.

[Jstdv8]

yes, "wait and see" if the ich populates to a point where your fish can't fight it off anymore, Brilliant!

Treat the fish once, get it done with and treat all new comers the same way.
Pick copper (cupramine) or hyposalinty and stick with it to the letter.
If it says "safe" it won't work. copper or hypo, copper needs a spendy test kit and hypo needs a refractometer (not a hydrometer)
pick one, research it and go all out doing the treatment correctly.

[dafunkyman]

One question I forgot to ask is what temp should I keep QT at. Regular temp or a higher temp?

[shifty51008]

regular temp is good enough

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by Jstdv8

yes, "wait and see" if the ich populates to a point where your fish can't fight it off anymore, Brilliant!

Ah jeesh! Yeah, I guess at the first sign of a couple spots a newbie should ALWAYS chase the poor fish around the tank, completely stressing it out, because no fish has ever fought it off and waiting a couple days will be certain death to all fish in the system.

Please man, ich is not the end of the world. There is a time to remove the fish, but, IMHO, not at the first sign. AS LONG AS THE FISH IS EATING AND SWIMMING NORMAL, it is reasonable to suggest a wait and see attitude for a couple days.

[fishyness]

I tried the "wait and see"
waited and saw my fish die.
now they are all in hypo doing very well.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by dafunkyman

One question I forgot to ask is what temp should I keep QT at. Regular temp or a higher temp?

I kept mine at 80-82, a little warmer than regular to speed the cycle along.

[Nemo8710]

IF i get ICH, I use a BARE 10 g tank with a hob filter and treat with copper. Temp is 81.
JUST BE SURE NOT TO USE ANYTHING (but the fish) from the QT tank in you DT.

[shifty51008]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

Ah jeesh! Yeah, I guess at the first sign of a couple spots a newbie should ALWAYS chase the poor fish around the tank, completely stressing it out, because no fish has ever fought it off and waiting a couple days will be certain death to all fish in the system.

Please man, ich is not the end of the world. There is a time to remove the fish, but, IMHO, not at the first sign. AS LONG AS THE FISH IS EATING AND SWIMMING NORMAL, it is reasonable to suggest a wait and see attitude for a couple days.

not wanting to start an argument with anyone, but I think the OP wants to get rid of ich in his tank, not just keep it under control. I do agree that ich won't kill a fish overnight and it don't have to be rushed into treating.

there are people that have ich in their tank and don't worry about it cause they can't see it and it don't cause problems because the fish are happy and not stressed out however the ich is there and at the 1st sign of stress the ich can take over. IMO I would want ich to stay out of the tank and not just control it.

[dafunkyman]

This morning I found the first casualty was the 6 Line. I dont see the fish eating or they eat very little while im not watching so I have the QT all set up for hyposalinity. I have a O clownfish, bicolor blenny, orange spotted goby, and firefish. The clown is in bad shape with spots all over him, but, the other three just have it on the fins. They will all be in QT soon. As for the temp, it wont have any negative effects on these fish if I keep it at 80 right? And of these four which are hardy to ick and which are more likely to be harmed more than others.

[Jstdv8]

Originally Posted by dafunkyman

This morning I found the first casualty was the 6 Line. I dont see the fish eating or they eat very little while im not watching so I have the QT all set up for hyposalinity. I have a O clownfish, bicolor blenny, orange spotted goby, and firefish. The clown is in bad shape with spots all over him, but, the other three just have it on the fins. They will all be in QT soon. As for the temp, it wont have any negative effects on these fish if I keep it at 80 right? And of these four which are hardy to ick and which are more likely to be harmed more than others.

There's your wait and see system Steelhead.


OK, so the flip side of your argument is that if you wait and see, suppose it gets worse. now the fish is in real bad shape, and NOW you aqre going to chase it around the tank adn stress it out cathing it and puting it in a new home? Once again your logic seems flawed to me. I'd much rather treat before it gets out of hand when the fish still has some power to fight rather than wait till it gets fully infested and is near its death bed before I decide to "chase it around"

[Jstdv8]

Just becuase you can't see the ich on your fish doesnt mean it's not there. When you start seeing ich on the body of the fish the fish is weak. If there is ich present in the system it will be in the fishes gills. this is always the best place to look is around the gill plates and inside (where there are no scales) if possible. This is where the ich will be all other times. It only starts penetrating the scales when the fish is weak and the slime coat is reduced.

[dafunkyman]

Do antibiotics exist for ick? I did a little research that did not help, but what I want to know is if there are antibiotics and what is best for fighting ick.

[shifty51008]

none that I know of. some people say garlic does but that just helps the fish eat and helps them fight off ich, but will not get rid of it.