Cupramine Instructions - Confused

[SuperNemo]

Hi,

I'm about to start treating with cupramine and the instructions got me a little confused.

Instructions as follows:
use 16 drops (1 mL) per 40 L (10.5 gallons*) the first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat. On non-dropper caps, each inner ring is 1 mL. tIn freshwater use half dose. Final copper concentration is 0.5 mg/L (0.25 mg/L in freshwater). Leave at this concentration for 14 days.

The first part I'm okay with (i.e. 16 drops per 10gallon) so I will use 32 drops (I have a 20L).

Then it asked to repeat after 48 hours to get a final concentration of 0.5 mg/L.

Does this mean add another 32 drops? And then I leave for two weeks?

Do I need to remove the curpramine with carbon and cuprasorb after two weeks?

If the treatment is over, can the fish go into the display after than. Or should they still be quarantined for another 4 weeks for the total of the recommended 6 weeks.

Please help, don't want to over dose and kill my first fish. I know some people say only treat if there is signs of parasites, but I want to try my best not to introduce anything into the DT. So I'm going the route of using cupramine on all my fishes.



Thanks.

[Tracey2]

Originally Posted by SuperNemo

Hi,

I'm about to start treating with cupramine and the instructions got me a little confused.

Instructions as follows:
use 16 drops (1 mL) per 40 L (10.5 gallons*) the first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat. On non-dropper caps, each inner ring is 1 mL. tIn freshwater use half dose. Final copper concentration is 0.5 mg/L (0.25 mg/L in freshwater). Leave at this concentration for 14 days.

I usually start with half of what they recommend in the am and watch fish for the day then add the other half then wait the 48 hours and repeat, just to be safe. Watch water quality, test for amonia.

The first part I'm okay with (i.e. 16 drops per 10gallon) so I will use 32 drops (I have a 20L).

Do you mean you have a 20g?

Then it asked to repeat after 48 hours to get a final concentration of 0.5 mg/L.

Does this mean add another 32 drops? And then I leave for two weeks?

Yes repeat after 48 hours if fish are not too stressed.

Do I need to remove the curpramine with carbon and cuprasorb after two weeks?

Yes, I remove with carbon and water changes.

If the treatment is over, can the fish go into the display after than. Or should they still be quarantined for another 4 weeks for the total of the recommended 6 weeks.

After treatment keep water quality excellent, feed well and watch for other health issues, you may have to treat again or with a different med depending on what signs they show.

Please help, don't want to over dose and kill my first fish. I know some people say only treat if there is signs of parasites, but I want to try my best not to introduce anything into the DT. So I'm going the route of using cupramine on all my fishes.

Be careful, some fish are more sensative than others when it comes to meds.

Thanks.

[Palting]

You need a copper test kit. It is a MUST HAVE. The copper droplet /ml recommendation is an approximation at best. Then there is water evaporation, then you may need to do water changes, and other variables in your tank. Althoug Cupramine supposedly has a broader safety zone, the only way to precisely titrate the dosage is with a copper test.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by SuperNemo

Hi,

I'm about to start treating with cupramine and the instructions got me a little confused.

Instructions as follows:
use 16 drops (1 mL) per 40 L (10.5 gallons*) the first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat. On non-dropper caps, each inner ring is 1 mL. tIn freshwater use half dose. Final copper concentration is 0.5 mg/L (0.25 mg/L in freshwater). Leave at this concentration for 14 days.

The first part I'm okay with (i.e. 16 drops per 10gallon) so I will use 32 drops (I have a 20L).

Then it asked to repeat after 48 hours to get a final concentration of 0.5 mg/L.

Does this mean add another 32 drops? And then I leave for two weeks?

Do I need to remove the curpramine with carbon and cuprasorb after two weeks?

If the treatment is over, can the fish go into the display after than. Or should they still be quarantined for another 4 weeks for the total of the recommended 6 weeks.

Please help, don't want to over dose and kill my first fish. I know some people say only treat if there is signs of parasites, but I want to try my best not to introduce anything into the DT. So I'm going the route of using cupramine on all my fishes.



Thanks.

Do you have a 20L or 20G? 20L is only around 5G.

Agree you need to get a seachem copper kit designed for the type of coper in copramine. It is supposed to be easier on the fish but it's still a heavy metal and easy to overdose. Also, easy to underdose and not kill the parasites. There's a lot of things that will cause the coper levels to drop or not be as high as you think they should be.

I would start with the recommended amount to start with the first day and before you do the next dose test with a test kit to make sure the first dose got the tank to where it's suppose to be for that dosage. The first dose recommendations will not overdose your tank as it's designed to set up full strength over two doses.

You may need to dose more copramine through out the treatment but should only be done based on testing with a test kit.

Carbon will help remove the carbon. If you are doing this as a preventive QT process then I'd wait another week or two to make sure no diseases pop up as they could get a bacterial infection at this time.

If this is to treat all your fish because they were in your main tank with some type of parasite then I personally would wait at least 6 more weeks to make sure the parasites die off in your main tank before putting your fish back in and get inflicted again with the parasites.

BTW, do NOT use any kind of ammonia reducer while using copramine as it will become very toxic and kill your fish. You need to make sure your QT is established. If you are in a dire rush and can't wait for that then make sure you do plenty of water changes every day or even multiple times a day. You could try a bacteria booster as well. I had to do this for the first week until the ammonia levels stopped rising. I did water change every day and used seachem's stability.

[SuperNemo]

I must apologize for not clearing up the 20L. What I meant is a have a 20 Gallon Long tank. Didn't realize 20L could be 20 Liters.

I like Tracey's suggestion on half dose in the morning and then the remaineder in the afternoon. Will do the same thing after the 48 hour laspe.

I have already purchase 4 API Cooper test kits. I know that I will have to test the cooper frequently, so 4 sould be enough for now.

I'll probably wait another week or two to see if any other disease signs come up before I do the cupramine treatment.

[Palting]

Ever thought of hyposalinity? I think it's easier and cheaper, not to mention it won't mark your tank as a copper tank.

[SuperNemo]

I have actually thought about hypo, but I thought that there is a great chance of not removing ICK from the fish with hypo that it is with cooper.

Please let me know if I'm wrong.

[niqiri]

I think you're right on the money. After adding the two doses your final concentration should be around 0.5 mg/L, but given that you're adding enough copper for 21 gallons and unless your tank is completely full, your concentration will probably be slightly higher. Seachem states that a concentration of up to 0.8 mg/L is safe so I doubt you will overdose. As for hyposalinity, there are many debates as to whether there are hyposaline-resistant crypto parasties. In addition, you may face pH problems and your biological filter may slow. Finally, the margin for error is quite slim, as it has been shown that crypt can survive in salinites as low as 1.010. Also, copper will treat crypt and velvet. So even if you kept a fish at 1.009 for four weeks or so you would not have gotten rid of any velvet parasites. Just a thought.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by SuperNemo

I have actually thought about hypo, but I thought that there is a great chance of not removing ICK from the fish with hypo that it is with cooper.

Please let me know if I'm wrong.

They both work. They also both have to be done precisely for either to work. If either one is not done right, as in wrong copper concentration in one or SG not at 1.009 in the other, then neither will work.

I also believe you need at least 28 days of treatment for either copper or hyposalinity. They each target specific but different parts of the Ich cycle, so you have to let all the Ich try to complete the cycle to kill them all. And the Ich cycle is at least, stress AT LEAST, 28 days.

[SuperNemo]

thanks a lot nigiri, that is very informative.

[Palting]

BTW, if you are interested in hypo, here's my thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1892446

[rayn]

If you really want to go cupramine you have to have a copper test kit. Also seachem stability will help tremendously. Search for the new fish, new QT thread. RBU1 helped me big time on copper in a QT. If not done correctly you could overdose or underside and not accomplish your goal.
Your tank is pretty much a QT after copper too, so keep that in mind as well. Run a good hob filter and have plenty of water for water changes ready. A ammonia disk would help too.

[jason2459]

I found using copramine to be very easy. It has a wider effective range due to most fish tolerating it more. Also, I didn't like hypo due to the fact it had to be very precise and it doesn't treat as many parasites as copper does.
Also, you can use a tank after for other things other then QT after treating with copper. I am currently using my 20G long tank that I used copper in for my mantis tank. I have a 10G now to treat any new fish. I have crabs, softies, fish, snails, an urchin, and a mantis doing just fine in my 20g. Using the same pumps and heater.

I used a poly filter and carbon to remove the copper after treatment was done while fish were waiting to go back in the main tank.. Then did a vinegar bath after that and thats all I did. I didn't use rock or substrate in QT. Just a spong filter and PVC which is in the 10G now.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[SuperNemo]

So I guess its decided that I'm going the cupramine route. I got plenty of copper test kits, so no problem there.

As for extra saltwater, I have about a 100G in the DT (QTing first two fish).

Thanks, Palting. I'll make sure to keep the fish in copper for at least 28 days, if not more.

[rayn]

Make sure the fish you are qting are copper safe. Some or most of the scaleless fish aren't copper safe. Wrasses and blennies are first to come to mind. I didn't know and killed my leopard wrasse at .2 on the copper scale.

[SuperNemo]

rayn, where can I find a list of copper safe fishes.

I though cupramine was safe for all fishes.

[rayn]

Do a search for copper safe fish. There was just a thread going about it. I think in the fish disease forum. Ill find it later when I get home on the computer if you can't.

[SuperNemo]

rayn, i did a search and couldn't find it. Please if you have time can you get the link for me.

[rayn]

I was trying to find it too, but I got in trouble with the wife were out to dinner. Ill find it when I get home for ya

[SuperNemo]

this is what i call a fellow reefer. HAHA.

[rayn]

Here is the thread I was thinking of
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...=wrasse+copper
but it doesn't really say much. I know that the wrasse and blenny are out. Not sure about much more, but there are a few others listed here. Maybe you could PM JHemdal for more info on it. Sorry I couldn't be more help. It is something I would like to know as well.

Oh don't worry about the wife being mad, happens all the time