Please HELP-With CORALS Dying, need lighting expertise

gmanmorris · 09/30/2010, 10:00 AM

I am really in need of some guidance with respect to lighting.
Here's my Setup:
Red Sea Max 130D (34 Gallon) Stock Setup
Stock Lighting & lamps (Qty 2) 55w power compact 50/50 white and blue actinic. Red Sea Max has a factory replacement bulb which is what I've been using. Age of current bulbs approzx 6 months
Lighting Time: 10 hours
Water Parameters: good
Water Changes: 1X week 5 to 10 gallons
Filtration: Tunze Skimmer
Water Flow: Stock 2 power heads, and 1 additional Side Mount Power Head

Stock: Live Rock, 4 fish, a few LPS, Softies, SPS, cleaner crew.
NOTE: You'll see a bird's nest in the photo that has slowly died since, been in the tank about 6 weeks.

I believe my stock lighting is creating 2 issues.
1. it's not strong enough to support SPS and doesn't penetrate far enough down into the tank.
2. It is washing out the color richness of corals. I've seen this occur with frogspawn, dunkin, Hydnophora, acropora, and zoas, favia, chalice. With the exception of the birds nest, all of the above can live in the tank, but their coloring washes out. So over time all the greens and reds begin to look pale and weak.

I would like to get input from those out there with what I can do?
I'm thinking of the following options:

1. change my stock 55w Power Compact Bulbs 50/50 to all 100% white 65w bulbs and then add stunner strip in blue to get color back. I may need more than 1 blue stunner / purple to accomplish decent coloring. Any advice on this option? Would this give me stronger growing conditions and satisfy the blue w/ LED? I'm curious, does the blue actinic provide growing conditions or just aesthetics?

2. remove 1 of the 2 power compacts, and replace with LED Panorama BLUE, so I'd have blue from LED and all white 65w (1) power compact for white light.

3. Blow the whole stock lid up and fill it with LEDs.
Really appreciate everyone's input

sirreal63 · 09/30/2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmanmorris

Water Parameters: good

Let's start here...can you be a lot more specific?

njudson · 09/30/2010, 10:36 AM

Of the choices you listed I like option 3. You need to get stronger lighting if you want to keep the corals you listed as not doing well. I don't think power compacts are gonna cut it.

sirreal63 · 09/30/2010, 11:00 AM

With the exception of the Birdsnest, the rest will do ok under 110 watts of PC's, if the water conditions are good. The tank is not very deep and the Cap is growing, yes the lighting is on the weak side but I would look to water quality first.

borderjo · 09/30/2010, 11:07 AM

you will never get there with PC's to support much of anything, much less SPS. LEDs are an option, but probably cheaper to grab a T5 retro kit with 4 bulbs. That would probably be ok, but SPS would still need to be near the top.

divewsharks · 09/30/2010, 11:13 AM

water quality, water quality.
ALK, CA, Nitrate, P04, SG?
And you bulbs are old. PC's are only good for about 6 months.

drcarr · 09/30/2010, 12:22 PM

if i'm not mistaken the RSM 130D comes with T5 PC lights.

from the RSM website on lighting in the RSM 130D... "2x 55w 50/50 10,000k & Actinic T5 Power compact lamps"

anyone know if those are any different than the "regular" T5 bulbs? i wonder if you could retrofit 4 24" T4 bulbs in there such as ATI blue +?

any thoughts anyone?

sirreal63 · 09/30/2010, 12:34 PM

They are not that much different but the poor reflector design limits their effectiveness. They have the same 5/8" diameter. I am sure there are efficiency differences but I don't think light is the only issue here.

gmanmorris · 09/30/2010, 09:17 PM

Appreciate the comments. I'll try to define "good" water a bit better and take some updated levels.. and post them- thx.

divewsharks · 10/01/2010, 02:05 PM

the t5 compact fluorescent depends on the design, there are some that are 4-pin and bend, just not at tight as a standard CF. As a result reflectors would not be nearly as efficient and not sure the quality of the bulbs.

gmanmorris · 10/28/2010, 08:23 AM

I'm thinking about replacing the power compacts with 65 W all white instead of 50/50 white / blue, which should increase the growing intensity. And then adding blue with LED's DiY.. to add color..
Anybody have input on this option?

reefsurfing · 10/28/2010, 09:45 AM

Take option 3, why invest any more into PC's, take that chuck of change and get yourself some LEDs.

Steven Pro · 10/28/2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmanmorris

2. It is washing out the color richness of corals. I've seen this occur with frogspawn, dunkin, Hydnophora, acropora, and zoas, favia, chalice.

I agree with sirreal63. A lot of your corals are not very light demanding. I think something else is causing your problems, not the lighting. Unless, your lamps are old. They should be changed every 6-9 months.

Steven Pro · 10/28/2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcarr

if i'm not mistaken the RSM 130D comes with T5 PC lights.

from the RSM website on lighting in the RSM 130D... "2x 55w 50/50 10,000k & Actinic T5 Power compact lamps"

anyone know if those are any different than the "regular" T5 bulbs? i wonder if you could retrofit 4 24" T4 bulbs in there such as ATI blue +?

any thoughts anyone?

The Red Sea T5-PC lamps are just power compact lamps that are 5/8" in diameter instead of the more standard 3/4".

T numbers tell you how many 8ths of an inch a lamp is in diameter. For example, a T5 lamp is 5/8", T12 is 12/8" or 1 1/2".

gmanmorris · 10/28/2010, 12:53 PM

thanks for the info I appreciate the posts.
What I notice is even at the top of my tank the corals are striving upward, which may tell me the power is not enough.
What do you think about going with 2 all white 65 W PC lights and then adding led in blue for coloration?

divewsharks · 10/29/2010, 04:16 AM

PC's just don't put out much light regardless. If you are certain the sure its the light, you might want to consider changing the lighting altogether as already mentioned.

What do you mean by 'striving upward'?

zygote2k · 10/29/2010, 07:35 AM

Don't let the hype fool you- Most any light source made for the hobby will grow most any coral including SPS just fine.
Water chemistry and scheduled maintenance are most likely your issue. How often are you doing w/c? To have Birdsnest -which is a somewhat sensitive SPS, you should have SPS water quality for at least 6 months before you introduce them to your tank.

gmanmorris · 10/29/2010, 09:14 AM

thanks- By striving upward i mean at the top of the tank for example I have montipora shooting up toward the lights and the same montipora is toward the middle and bottom are not growing as well, their color is not as bright and polyps not developed.
I'm doing water changes 1 time per week on average between 5 and 10 gallons alternating.. tank size is 34 gallons.

09/30/2010, 10:36 AM	#3
njudson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 610	Of the choices you listed I like option 3. You need to get stronger lighting if you want to keep the corals you listed as not doing well. I don't think power compacts are gonna cut it. __________________ Barebottom Nano Radion Pro Icecap 1k Gyre Icecap K1 Nano Skimmer Ocellaris pair / Potter's Angel / BTAs, Zoas and Montis Current Tank Info: IM Nuvo Fusion Lagoon 25

09/30/2010, 11:00 AM	#4
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	With the exception of the Birdsnest, the rest will do ok under 110 watts of PC's, if the water conditions are good. The tank is not very deep and the Cap is growing, yes the lighting is on the weak side but I would look to water quality first. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

09/30/2010, 12:34 PM	#8
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	They are not that much different but the poor reflector design limits their effectiveness. They have the same 5/8" diameter. I am sure there are efficiency differences but I don't think light is the only issue here. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

10/29/2010, 07:35 AM	#17
zygote2k Nuisance Algae Join Date: May 2008 Location: Reston,Va Posts: 213	Don't let the hype fool you- Most any light source made for the hobby will grow most any coral including SPS just fine. Water chemistry and scheduled maintenance are most likely your issue. How often are you doing w/c? To have Birdsnest -which is a somewhat sensitive SPS, you should have SPS water quality for at least 6 months before you introduce them to your tank. __________________ LED powered LPS tank with 100% WAMAS built components. Current Tank Info: LED powered LPS tank.

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09/30/2010, 11:07 AM	#5
borderjo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Trumbull, CT Posts: 72	you will never get there with PC's to support much of anything, much less SPS. LEDs are an option, but probably cheaper to grab a T5 retro kit with 4 bulbs. That would probably be ok, but SPS would still need to be near the top.

09/30/2010, 11:13 AM	#6
divewsharks Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,905	water quality, water quality. ALK, CA, Nitrate, P04, SG? And you bulbs are old. PC's are only good for about 6 months.

09/30/2010, 12:22 PM	#7
drcarr Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 105	if i'm not mistaken the RSM 130D comes with T5 PC lights. from the RSM website on lighting in the RSM 130D... "2x 55w 50/50 10,000k & Actinic T5 Power compact lamps" anyone know if those are any different than the "regular" T5 bulbs? i wonder if you could retrofit 4 24" T4 bulbs in there such as ATI blue +? any thoughts anyone?

09/30/2010, 09:17 PM	#9
gmanmorris Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 11	Appreciate the comments. I'll try to define "good" water a bit better and take some updated levels.. and post them- thx.

10/01/2010, 02:05 PM	#10
divewsharks Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,905	the t5 compact fluorescent depends on the design, there are some that are 4-pin and bend, just not at tight as a standard CF. As a result reflectors would not be nearly as efficient and not sure the quality of the bulbs.

10/28/2010, 08:23 AM	#11
gmanmorris Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 11	I'm thinking about replacing the power compacts with 65 W all white instead of 50/50 white / blue, which should increase the growing intensity. And then adding blue with LED's DiY.. to add color.. Anybody have input on this option?

10/28/2010, 09:45 AM	#12
reefsurfing Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 499	Take option 3, why invest any more into PC's, take that chuck of change and get yourself some LEDs.

10/28/2010, 12:53 PM	#15
gmanmorris Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 11	thanks for the info I appreciate the posts. What I notice is even at the top of my tank the corals are striving upward, which may tell me the power is not enough. What do you think about going with 2 all white 65 W PC lights and then adding led in blue for coloration?

10/29/2010, 04:16 AM	#16
divewsharks Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,905	PC's just don't put out much light regardless. If you are certain the sure its the light, you might want to consider changing the lighting altogether as already mentioned. What do you mean by 'striving upward'?

10/29/2010, 09:14 AM	#18
gmanmorris Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 11	thanks- By striving upward i mean at the top of the tank for example I have montipora shooting up toward the lights and the same montipora is toward the middle and bottom are not growing as well, their color is not as bright and polyps not developed. I'm doing water changes 1 time per week on average between 5 and 10 gallons alternating.. tank size is 34 gallons.