Ammonia and nitrate high

bigmarj · 10/07/2010, 03:23 PM

I just bought a used 150 gal.saltwater tank with,fish live sand and some live rock(,not enough)We set it up,with same of the water from the tank and the rest RO water,on sunday. Today thursday the ammonia is 2.0 ppm
nitrite 3.0 ppm
nitrate 800 ppm
I put same Kent Pro-Ammonia Detox in but it didn`t seam to help much. What
should i do now?

Tony78 · 10/07/2010, 03:42 PM

It sounds like your tank is beginning to cycle.

If you got new sand / rock, I would expect a cycle.
If you used the existing sand and rock....
1. The rock may have had some die off during transport causing ammonia spike
2. If it was a DSB and you stirred it up or scooped it out... you probably released some of the trapped nasties in the sand and caused a spike and consequently a cycle.

I would get any livestock out of that tank and get them somewhere safe. LFS, friend, local fish club etc until your tank finishes cycling.

Amquel is a good product to detox ammonia in tank. I've had bad luck with the quality of a few Kent products over the years. Amquel would be my last resort, I'd seriously try to get the fish out and not add any chemicals to the system if at all possible.

philosophile · 10/07/2010, 04:09 PM

How much live rock do you have? You should have at least as many pounds as gallons your tank will hold.
I agree with Tony78. Take out your livestock (maybe leave behind the clean up crew) and wait for about a month or so to let the tank cycle.

Palting · 10/07/2010, 05:09 PM

I saw from your first thread that you are new to your area, and don't know any lfs yet.

As has already been said, the move has stirred a lot of dead or decaying stuff giving rise to not just an ammonia spike, but in everything toxic spike. Even nitrate in high concentrations can be toxic.

If you have the supplies, I would do large water changes. Large as in almost 100%. This will have the immediate effect of getting rid of the toxins. You can turkey baster the rocks to get the loose detritus into the water before you remove the water, and vacuum out the sand bed.

What live stock is in the tank? Good luck.

bigmarj · 10/07/2010, 11:21 PM

I have two 5-6 inch foxface rabbit fish,3 large damsels a trigger fish and a green fish that hides in the sand.
I know i don`t have enough live rock yet,spent all the money on the tank etc.
It took me almost three days to make enough RO water to fill the tank and sump,so I`m not crazy about doing a almost 100% water change.

Palting · 10/08/2010, 07:12 AM

I don't know how much higher your ammonia will go, so I don't know if your fish will survive in that environment. If you can't get them to an lfs or friend, and can't do large water changes, then I guess the chemical route with Amquel and keeping fingers crossed is the next step.

One other thing you can do is get a plastic tub large enough for your fish, 20 gal or so, put a HOB filter and do frequent water changes on that, and leave the main tank alone to cycle.

deaddat · 10/08/2010, 07:18 AM

You're worrying me...does this RO water have salt? I really hope you're salinity isn't really low too.

geaux xman · 10/08/2010, 07:24 AM

pretty good nitrate test kit you have that reads up to 800ppm.

dilute it x10 then tested it?

TripleT · 10/08/2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmarj

I have two 5-6 inch foxface rabbit fish,3 large damsels a trigger fish and a green fish that hides in the sand.
I know i don`t have enough live rock yet,spent all the money on the tank etc.
It took me almost three days to make enough RO water to fill the tank and sump,so I`m not crazy about doing a almost 100% water change.

If you're not comfortable with large water changes, do frequent smaller ones for the next few weeks.

You'll probably be making water continually until you get your ammonia back down to 0.

Amquel can help detoxify, but I don't think it will affect readings.

So keep doing water changes, and retesting. And try to mix new water for at least 24 hours.

You might also add a Polyfilter of Pura filter pad to your sump for the next few weeks.

bigmarj · 10/08/2010, 10:12 AM

My nitrate was 80 ppm,now it looks like 40 ppm
nitrites 2.0 ppm
ammonia 2.0 ppm

bigmarj · 10/08/2010, 10:26 AM

I add salt to my RO water.When i got the fish,the water from the tank was 1.021.Now it is 1.021 1/2.

philosophile · 10/08/2010, 11:08 AM

You're going to need to regular water changes on maybe a weekly or bi-weekly basis, (since your tank is pretty big).

150 gallons, I'd say at least 10% every week, so 15 gallons a week should be changed out.

Alternatively, take the fish out and don't do any water changes for a good month or so....

Your salinity is kinda low, if you want to keep corals. If you're just planning on keeping fish, then make sure you acclimate them to the salinity.

For coral, aim for 1.23-1.24

Your ammonia is high because you have no biological filter set up in the live rock, and the fish produce ammonia as waste. so you need to give your live rock some time to cycle through and build up enough bacteria to handle the ammonia and convert it to nitrate. It takes time. you can also try buying some instant cycle stuff to help it cycle faster, if you're not willing to return the fish.

10/07/2010, 03:23 PM	#1
bigmarj Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6	Ammonia and nitrate high I just bought a used 150 gal.saltwater tank with,fish live sand and some live rock(,not enough)We set it up,with same of the water from the tank and the rest RO water,on sunday. Today thursday the ammonia is 2.0 ppm nitrite 3.0 ppm nitrate 800 ppm I put same Kent Pro-Ammonia Detox in but it didn`t seam to help much. What should i do now?

10/07/2010, 05:09 PM	#4
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	I saw from your first thread that you are new to your area, and don't know any lfs yet. As has already been said, the move has stirred a lot of dead or decaying stuff giving rise to not just an ammonia spike, but in everything toxic spike. Even nitrate in high concentrations can be toxic. If you have the supplies, I would do large water changes. Large as in almost 100%. This will have the immediate effect of getting rid of the toxins. You can turkey baster the rocks to get the loose detritus into the water before you remove the water, and vacuum out the sand bed. What live stock is in the tank? Good luck. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

10/08/2010, 07:12 AM	#6
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	I don't know how much higher your ammonia will go, so I don't know if your fish will survive in that environment. If you can't get them to an lfs or friend, and can't do large water changes, then I guess the chemical route with Amquel and keeping fingers crossed is the next step. One other thing you can do is get a plastic tub large enough for your fish, 20 gal or so, put a HOB filter and do frequent water changes on that, and leave the main tank alone to cycle. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

10/08/2010, 10:12 AM	#10
bigmarj Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6	nitrate ammonia high My nitrate was 80 ppm,now it looks like 40 ppm nitrites 2.0 ppm ammonia 2.0 ppm

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10/07/2010, 03:42 PM	#2
Tony78 Boston Terrier Fan Club Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Bolingbrook IL Posts: 209	It sounds like your tank is beginning to cycle. If you got new sand / rock, I would expect a cycle. If you used the existing sand and rock.... 1. The rock may have had some die off during transport causing ammonia spike 2. If it was a DSB and you stirred it up or scooped it out... you probably released some of the trapped nasties in the sand and caused a spike and consequently a cycle. I would get any livestock out of that tank and get them somewhere safe. LFS, friend, local fish club etc until your tank finishes cycling. Amquel is a good product to detox ammonia in tank. I've had bad luck with the quality of a few Kent products over the years. Amquel would be my last resort, I'd seriously try to get the fish out and not add any chemicals to the system if at all possible.

10/07/2010, 04:09 PM	#3
philosophile Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,149	How much live rock do you have? You should have at least as many pounds as gallons your tank will hold. I agree with Tony78. Take out your livestock (maybe leave behind the clean up crew) and wait for about a month or so to let the tank cycle.

10/07/2010, 11:21 PM	#5
bigmarj Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6	I have two 5-6 inch foxface rabbit fish,3 large damsels a trigger fish and a green fish that hides in the sand. I know i don`t have enough live rock yet,spent all the money on the tank etc. It took me almost three days to make enough RO water to fill the tank and sump,so I`m not crazy about doing a almost 100% water change.

10/08/2010, 07:18 AM	#7
deaddat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 131	You're worrying me...does this RO water have salt? I really hope you're salinity isn't really low too.

10/08/2010, 07:24 AM	#8
geaux xman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 3,279	pretty good nitrate test kit you have that reads up to 800ppm. dilute it x10 then tested it?

10/08/2010, 10:26 AM	#11
bigmarj Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6	I add salt to my RO water.When i got the fish,the water from the tank was 1.021.Now it is 1.021 1/2.

10/08/2010, 11:08 AM	#12
philosophile Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,149	You're going to need to regular water changes on maybe a weekly or bi-weekly basis, (since your tank is pretty big). 150 gallons, I'd say at least 10% every week, so 15 gallons a week should be changed out. Alternatively, take the fish out and don't do any water changes for a good month or so.... Your salinity is kinda low, if you want to keep corals. If you're just planning on keeping fish, then make sure you acclimate them to the salinity. For coral, aim for 1.23-1.24 Your ammonia is high because you have no biological filter set up in the live rock, and the fish produce ammonia as waste. so you need to give your live rock some time to cycle through and build up enough bacteria to handle the ammonia and convert it to nitrate. It takes time. you can also try buying some instant cycle stuff to help it cycle faster, if you're not willing to return the fish.