Ammonia question / Help

Varkalis22 · 10/12/2010, 10:14 PM

I have had my new 55g reef set up now for about 3 months and all of the sudden i have ammonia in the tank. Not sure to as why but i will give as much info as possible so that i can help everyone with an educated guess. All my parameters have been perfect until about a week ago. I bought a new Hydrometer and found out my salinity has been off this whole time. I now have it stabilized at 1.025. All other readings were good. until today. I have had some snails die due to the salinity change, which i expected, but what else could be making the ammonia spike. All my corals are doing great and fish too. Can someone please help me figure out what is going on? I have also just added a sump/refug a week ago with some cheato and mineral mud topped with sand. could this be the reason? How long can the tank go like this before i absolutley have to do a water change. I just did one two days ago.

Sisterlimonpot · 10/12/2010, 10:21 PM

What is the level of the ammonia? what was the salinity before you started raising it to 1.025? and what was the time frame?

My guess is, if you had snails die off you also had other inverts like pods worms etc die off as well producing a huge load on the biological bacteria that it couldn't keep up.

And an off question... why are you using mineral mud?

Varkalis22 · 10/12/2010, 11:12 PM

My salinity was at 1.027 and I dropped it gradually with small water changes over a week. My ammonia level is .25. I started using mineral mud because the reef store i go to uses it on all their tanks and they all look amazing. I was told by them that it would help slowly release good minerals in the water that good for corals. How have you been sisterlimonpot?

jformani · 10/13/2010, 07:13 AM

I would do a water change immediately. Why wait?

Sisterlimonpot · 10/13/2010, 07:34 AM

+1 oh yeah definitely a water change is in order. Dropping the salinity 0.002 shouldn't have caused a problem but for some reason it did. Definitely get in there and change about 15-20%. And add some ammonia detoxifyer.

IslandCrow · 10/13/2010, 10:45 AM

Can you give us some more details on your livestock, specifically what types of fish you have. This does seem rather strange that you'd suddenly have an ammonia spike. While you're telling us about your fish, give us a general timeframe of when you added them. The most likely cause is a bio overload to the system. I agree with Sisterlimonpot that the change in salinity shouldn't have caused any problems, even for your invertebrates, so I truly doubt it was the cause for the death of your snails or your ammonia. I've adjusted my salinity by that much over just a few minutes.

cornraker · 10/13/2010, 10:49 AM

I'm new to saltwater and i've been told to keep my SG between 1.020 and 1.024 right now it's at 1.021. Is that ok? It's fish only

Chris27 · 10/13/2010, 12:31 PM

Where did the sand come from that you put in the fuge?

Chris27 · 10/13/2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornraker

I'm new to saltwater and i've been told to keep my SG between 1.020 and 1.024 right now it's at 1.021. Is that ok? It's fish only

That's fine for fish only, but generally speaking, there isn't any benefit to keeping anything outside of typical ocean salinity of 35ppt or 1.026.

power boat jim · 10/13/2010, 12:52 PM

First off The snails didnt die due to a slight salinity change. What probably happened was one snail died in the tank somewhere (as snails do) and started decaying, as the ammonia levels rose several more snails probably died and the vicious circle of ammonia spike begins. I would also be very concerned about what miracle mud is and what happens to it when you cover it with sand. This could be another source of your trouble.

oxford · 10/13/2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornraker

I'm new to saltwater and i've been told to keep my SG between 1.020 and 1.024 right now it's at 1.021. Is that ok? It's fish only

Cornraker, most of stay at 1.026. You can find tons of info in the Reef Chemistry Forum.

Varkalis22 · 10/15/2010, 12:16 AM

As far as live stock, i have one golden head goby, two clowns, and one yellow tang. When the snails died, they did not have enough time to start decaying. I watched everything very carefully to make sure that wouldn't happen. The sand was brand new along with the mineral mud. I rinsed them in R/O water first before started the sump. As of last night, i changed 25% of the water with new salt. I changed to the new H2O stuff. not sure the exact name. Everything seems to be doing very well today. I have not yet tested the water. Don't know if this is true but, the LFS told me that i should only change about 10% water every three weeks. And i probably had a lot of good bacteria die off because my water was too clean? This causing the ammonia spike. everything i have ever read or heard, says that 10% weekly is the best way to go, so what is the truth about this?

IslandCrow · 10/15/2010, 07:21 AM

Over what timeframe did you add your fish? You're pretty close to your maximum for a mature tank, especially with the tang which is really not an appropriate fish for a tank your size. My theory here is that your biological filters were not quite robust enough in your relatively new tank for all of your fish. 10% weekly water changes are a good idea. 10% every three weeks can sometimes be acceptable for very mature tanks (especially fish only), but I'd highly recommend weekly changes. As far as bacteria dying off because your water was "too clean"?. . .in short, no. Trust me, your water was certainly not that nutrient poor. If it was, you woulnd't have had an ammonia spike in the first place. The 25% water change under the circumstances was also a good idea.

Varkalis22 · 10/15/2010, 12:08 PM

my live rock came from a 7 year established tank. I never had a cycle when setting up my tank either. I added all the fish in monthly increments. The tang was the last of the group, and he is still a baby. about the size of a 50 cent piece. I know that he will out grow the tank, but i know i will be moving in three years so when he does out grow, i will be moving and tearing my tank down to upgrade at the new place. Everything seems to be doing better than ever after last nights water change and my ammonia is back to zero. Not sure what went on but I'm glad i changed salt mix.

Varkalis22 · 10/18/2010, 12:18 AM

The ammonia is back to .25. I have no idea what is going on. all my other parameters are good and i just bought a new heater to keep the tank more stable. I need help to figure this out.

10/12/2010, 10:14 PM	#1
Varkalis22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 24	Ammonia question / Help I have had my new 55g reef set up now for about 3 months and all of the sudden i have ammonia in the tank. Not sure to as why but i will give as much info as possible so that i can help everyone with an educated guess. All my parameters have been perfect until about a week ago. I bought a new Hydrometer and found out my salinity has been off this whole time. I now have it stabilized at 1.025. All other readings were good. until today. I have had some snails die due to the salinity change, which i expected, but what else could be making the ammonia spike. All my corals are doing great and fish too. Can someone please help me figure out what is going on? I have also just added a sump/refug a week ago with some cheato and mineral mud topped with sand. could this be the reason? How long can the tank go like this before i absolutley have to do a water change. I just did one two days ago.

10/12/2010, 10:21 PM	#2
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	What is the level of the ammonia? what was the salinity before you started raising it to 1.025? and what was the time frame? My guess is, if you had snails die off you also had other inverts like pods worms etc die off as well producing a huge load on the biological bacteria that it couldn't keep up. And an off question... why are you using mineral mud? __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

10/13/2010, 07:34 AM	#5
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	+1 oh yeah definitely a water change is in order. Dropping the salinity 0.002 shouldn't have caused a problem but for some reason it did. Definitely get in there and change about 15-20%. And add some ammonia detoxifyer. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

10/13/2010, 10:45 AM	#6
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Can you give us some more details on your livestock, specifically what types of fish you have. This does seem rather strange that you'd suddenly have an ammonia spike. While you're telling us about your fish, give us a general timeframe of when you added them. The most likely cause is a bio overload to the system. I agree with Sisterlimonpot that the change in salinity shouldn't have caused any problems, even for your invertebrates, so I truly doubt it was the cause for the death of your snails or your ammonia. I've adjusted my salinity by that much over just a few minutes. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

10/15/2010, 07:21 AM	#13
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Over what timeframe did you add your fish? You're pretty close to your maximum for a mature tank, especially with the tang which is really not an appropriate fish for a tank your size. My theory here is that your biological filters were not quite robust enough in your relatively new tank for all of your fish. 10% weekly water changes are a good idea. 10% every three weeks can sometimes be acceptable for very mature tanks (especially fish only), but I'd highly recommend weekly changes. As far as bacteria dying off because your water was "too clean"?. . .in short, no. Trust me, your water was certainly not that nutrient poor. If it was, you woulnd't have had an ammonia spike in the first place. The 25% water change under the circumstances was also a good idea. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

10/12/2010, 11:12 PM	#3
Varkalis22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 24	My salinity was at 1.027 and I dropped it gradually with small water changes over a week. My ammonia level is .25. I started using mineral mud because the reef store i go to uses it on all their tanks and they all look amazing. I was told by them that it would help slowly release good minerals in the water that good for corals. How have you been sisterlimonpot?

10/13/2010, 07:13 AM	#4
jformani Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 730	I would do a water change immediately. Why wait?

10/13/2010, 10:49 AM	#7
cornraker Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 108	I'm new to saltwater and i've been told to keep my SG between 1.020 and 1.024 right now it's at 1.021. Is that ok? It's fish only

10/13/2010, 12:31 PM	#8
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	Where did the sand come from that you put in the fuge?

10/13/2010, 12:52 PM	#10
power boat jim Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wisconsin, The big peninsula Posts: 2,100	First off The snails didnt die due to a slight salinity change. What probably happened was one snail died in the tank somewhere (as snails do) and started decaying, as the ammonia levels rose several more snails probably died and the vicious circle of ammonia spike begins. I would also be very concerned about what miracle mud is and what happens to it when you cover it with sand. This could be another source of your trouble.

10/15/2010, 12:16 AM	#12
Varkalis22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 24	As far as live stock, i have one golden head goby, two clowns, and one yellow tang. When the snails died, they did not have enough time to start decaying. I watched everything very carefully to make sure that wouldn't happen. The sand was brand new along with the mineral mud. I rinsed them in R/O water first before started the sump. As of last night, i changed 25% of the water with new salt. I changed to the new H2O stuff. not sure the exact name. Everything seems to be doing very well today. I have not yet tested the water. Don't know if this is true but, the LFS told me that i should only change about 10% water every three weeks. And i probably had a lot of good bacteria die off because my water was too clean? This causing the ammonia spike. everything i have ever read or heard, says that 10% weekly is the best way to go, so what is the truth about this?

10/15/2010, 12:08 PM	#14
Varkalis22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 24	my live rock came from a 7 year established tank. I never had a cycle when setting up my tank either. I added all the fish in monthly increments. The tang was the last of the group, and he is still a baby. about the size of a 50 cent piece. I know that he will out grow the tank, but i know i will be moving in three years so when he does out grow, i will be moving and tearing my tank down to upgrade at the new place. Everything seems to be doing better than ever after last nights water change and my ammonia is back to zero. Not sure what went on but I'm glad i changed salt mix.

10/18/2010, 12:18 AM	#15
Varkalis22 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 24	The ammonia is back to .25. I have no idea what is going on. all my other parameters are good and i just bought a new heater to keep the tank more stable. I need help to figure this out.

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