Take my poll! 400 watt Radiums or 250 watt Radiums on an SPS tank

[Mr. Brooks]

I can't make a decision. I need to decide on either 4 - 400 watt Radiums or 4 - 250 watt Radiums over my new 96" x 30" x 24" tank. Either option will include 8 - 54 watt T5's.

This tank is going to go in my office. A room that gets very hot very easily. Heat is a major concern.

If I went with 400's I'd run them on Galaxy electronic ballasts. If I went with 250's I'd go with HQI. HQI ballasts actually run at 300 watts. 400 watt Radiums when run on electronic 400 watt ballasts are actually being overdriven which shortens the life. The 250's on HQI should last about twice as long.

I've tested both on my current tank. It seems like I'd sacrifice on average about 200 PAR by going with the 250's. I lose about 200 PAR in 4" of water. My current tank is 30" tall with rock work going about half way to the top. 250's would not be an option on that tank. The new tank is 24" tall. I can build the rock as high as I want. So in theory, if I go with 250's and shorten the distance to the surface of the water by 4", I'll get the same amount of light to my corals as I would with 400's in deeper water.

I also found in my test that my corals lost some of their color while under 250's. It's hard for me to say if it was the bulb or the distance from the bulb (less intensity) that contributed to the loss of color. I'd really like to hear from 250 watt users on this issue. Do you find it difficult to get really good color out of your corals with 250's?

I would use less electricity with 250's (about 400 watts), they'd add less heat and they would last twice as long.

How much color and growth would I be sacrificing by going with 250's instead of 400's? I've only run 400's and I'm nervous about going down in intensity. It was hard enough with 400's to get color and growth out my corals. This will be an SPS dominated tank. I want to get maximum color and growth but I also have to work in my office all day. It can't get too hot and I really don't want to waste money on bulbs and electricity.

On the other hand, I could go with with 400's and blast my corals with a ridiculous amount of light. I'd probably get a ton of growth and color. I'd just have to spend a little extra in electricity, spend more in bulb replacements and run my chiller and air conditioner more often. The big question is how much more extra growth/color would I get and would it be worth it.

I'd really like to hear only from people who have experience running similar lighting setups. Please consider all of my concerns before giving your opinion.

[Mr. Brooks]

Keep em coming guys. Thanks!

[Mr. Brooks]

I'd love to hear your opinions on the subject =)

[jonjonwells]

At that depth, the 250s should be more than enough.... paired with a good reflector that is.

If you are worried about heat, then it is no contest.

[Rumplestilsken]

Originally Posted by jonjonwells

At that depth, the 250s should be more than enough.... paired with a good reflector that is.

If you are worried about heat, then it is no contest.

I agree with this. Save yourself the issues of overheating and still have plenty of par

[surfjeepzx]

400's will be way too much on a 2' deep tank. 250's will grow anything you want and keep energy (heat) manageable.

[quader94]

I agree if heats a factor, I wouldnt consider the 400's.

[turbosek]

Remember the color of the light will affect PAR. If you run bluer lights, the PAR drops. I run 3 400W lights on my 42" long x 30" deep tank. I have a 6" DSB. My middle light is 20K and the other 2 are 14K. I have them run for 6 hours each, but I have them turn on in sequence to simulate the sun rising on one side of the tank and setting on the other side. Works great and keep chiller run time to about 7 minutes every hour.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm more concerned with heat in my office than I am with heat in the tank. I was hoping the 250's would be a slam dunk. They're only slightly in the lead. I'd like to hear from the guys voting for the 400's. What about having 400's makes you overlook the heat and cost issues?

[Mr. Brooks]

I'll have the sump and chiller in my warehouse outside my office. So tank temp shouldn't be a problem. My office on the other hand gets very hot running 3 - 400 watt halides.

[Mr. Brooks]

I really wish the guys voting for 400's would chime in. They're making this decision more difficult.

[solitude127]

What's your aquascape going to look like? Maybe you can put the 400w over the corals and the 250 over open swimming areas?

[Mr. Brooks]

I was going to build the rock kinda high. I don't like the look of mixing bulbs. I prefer to have a uniform look.

[allsps40]

I would go with 2 250 watt run by Icecap ballasts. The E ballast is a great ballast and runs cool and is efficient. Along with the T5s you plan to run you will have plenty of light. If heat is a issue than invest in a good chiller, controller and fans for heat control. If you with the 400 I would do just the 400s with Radium 20ks and no T5s.

[badmotorfinger7]

I have used both 250 and 400 watters on my 2 foot deep tank and can hoestly say that I feel as though the 400s are too much especially at the top. I am in the process of putting my 250s back in place. I think some of my colors have gotten washed out with the 400s.

[Mr. Brooks]

Originally Posted by badmotorfinger7

I have used both 250 and 400 watters on my 2 foot deep tank and can hoestly say that I feel as though the 400s are too much especially at the top. I am in the process of putting my 250s back in place. I think some of my colors have gotten washed out with the 400s.

This is the kind of input I love to hear! Thanks!

[Mr. Brooks]

One issue I completely overlooked is that there are two glass braces sitting directly under where the two middle bulbs will go. It's 1/2" glass. How much do you think this will affect the PAR output?

Also, these are going to be run in fixtures. Basically spider reflectors. I won't have the benefit of high efficiency reflectors.

[grigsy]

+1 badmotorfinger.

I had similar results with 24" tank depth. I find 400 watt to be too much light.

I think the 250 watt Radium on M80 HQI ballasts would be a better choice.

[JAustin]

400w 20Ks are NOT too much for a 2ft deep tank....it's what I run.

DO NOT buy 400W Radiums..they have changed the way they are made and now are JUNK!

All kinds of problems with them shifting to pink right away or a couple months after being ran. I went through three of them and tried them on electronic, pulse, and probe ballasts...all pink and crappy looking.

Grew TONS of algae.

[mcarroll]

Originally Posted by JAustin

DO NOT buy 400W Radiums..they have changed the way they are made and now are JUNK!

FUD. That sounds like something that would be serviced under warranty, or a problem with your ballast. I know lots of people using Radium 400w without issue to this day.

Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks

If I went with 250's I'd go with HQI. HQI ballasts actually run at 300 watts. 400 watt Radiums when run on electronic 400 watt ballasts are actually being overdriven which shortens the life. The 250's on HQI should last about twice as long.

I would use less electricity with 250's (about 400 watts), they'd add less heat and they would last twice as long.

I'm not sure if you meant this, but to clarify just in case:

The 400w Radiums are known to be a "power saving" model and designed to run at 360w. An HQI ballast (M135) should accomplish this (I've never personally seen them run on magnetic ballasts). An 400 watt electronic ballast may very well over drive this bulb to 400w, making the light whiter and brighter, but probably decreasing bulb life.

The 250w Radiums (like the 150 DE's) are designed to run above the "nominal" wattage - more like 270 watts. An HQI ballast (M80) should accomplish this. A 250 watt electronic ballast may actually under drive this bulb to 250 watts, making the light bluer and possibly extending bulb life somewhat. On an HQI ballast, my prediction is 5 to 9 months of quality light before replacement will be required.*

YMMV of course, but for my dollar** 250w bulbs are the way to go on a 24" tank - no brainer. ...and Radiums are my personal choice of bulb brand. (There're lots of good choices out there though.)

Good luck!

-Matt

* I'd love to be wrong and find out you get 12 months our of yours if you go this way.

** Of course, if you needed to mount these bulbs 16" or more off the tank surface or there was something else weird about the installation (your glass braces may prove out to be this) you may need more light. I might be inclined to make up the difference with LED lighting - (on the low end) either PAR38 format spotlights or something like Ecoxotic's Panorama strips that you can lay right on the glass bracing or (on the high end) something like Aqua Illuminations Sol blue pendants that have enough raw PAR but still generating minimal heat - color can be tuned to match the Radiums pretty closely. Personally I would hesitate to make up the difference by going 400w - you'll be superheating those braces every single day on top of all the other reasons people have voted against 400w.

[noobtothereef]

i wouldnt go radium anything, now that there bulbs are pink and junk

[Mr. Brooks]

Mcaroll, I wasn't sure about how long the 250's last. I was told when run on HQI they can last about a year. I heard that under running them can shorten their life. I also wasn't sure of the exact wattage, only that it's more than 250. I heard HQI ballasts draw a little under 300 watts from the wall.

Also, a 400 watt HQI ballast would overdrive a 400 watt Radium wouldn't it? I was under the assumption that you couldn't really get a proper ballast for the 400 watt Radium in the states.

I'm a little confused now. Someone else want to chime in?

LED isn't really an option for me, I want to wait a year or two for them to become more established.

Do you guys think keeping a 400 watt bulb over a glass center brace could cause damage to the tank? I do remember reading about someone's center brace on a Lee Mar splitting apart. Lee Mar claimed it was the halides that caused it.

I'm not that concerned with the pink bulb issue. I have 3 - 400 watt Radiums on my current tank, purchased recently. I haven't experienced a shift in color. My bulbs appear to be of the new manufacturing style.

[EnderG60]

I have a 300g(72x36x27) and I am running 3x400w radium 20k's on magnetic ballasts. I like them ALOT. Color and PAR. However I will be upgrading to helios bulbs and 400w HQI ballasts in the next few months. I saw them on a friends tank and the color is very close, yet a bit better and the par is off the charts!

Only problem Ive had with the radiums is one bulb fried the tip and wont make a connection anymore. Other then that, no issues.

Also keep in mind that electricity is pretty cheap here, so bulb replacement is most of my cost. For you in CA I dont know. But remember you can run 6 250's and less electricity then 4 400's.

Check the actual watts pulled by the units and the cost to replace bulbs add it all up for a year and then factor in your par levels. Costs aside, doing 5 or 6 250's will give you the same if not more PAR then 4 400's

[LifeAquatic]

Use 250wt with a good reflector. I recently traded my 250's for 400wt and its to much light. Even my high light loving acros are feeling the punch on the 24" tall tank. Lucky for me I have dimmable ballast so I was able to dial back the 400's to 80% power. Im using 400wt 20k radium bulbs so not sure what the par is like. The corals have responded better to less light. Also, I have the light mounted about 11" above the water.

[hunkafish]

So sump in a warehouse ,Hum, large volume of water in hot warehouse hum, and hi heat lamps over D/T in an office that tends to run hot, adds up to chiller, also add exhaust fan above Lights vent to warehouse to keep office cooler. Run tank at 76 if your ac struggles to keep you cool every degree lower you keep the tank will help, thats a large volume of water, it will effect the air temp by itself.