Adding Clownfish At Different Times

[Mr. Fish]

I am planning my fish list for my 55 gallon reef and have finally decided to have an Ocellaris clownfish as my first fish. My plan was to add a regular clown first then add a black one after the regular one survives and my lfs gets the black one in. Would there be compatibility issues with adding them at different times, there may also be a size difference because they come from a different "batch".

Thanks

[sanchostattoos]

I know from experience that it's best to have the LFS pair you the clowns before hand so that way you know they will be good together. I went through the same problem and had to take both back and recently just got two paired maroon clowns and i have no problems what so ever. If you do it the way your describing you MIGHT run into the problem of them not getting along. And you also might get more responses posting in the clowns and anemones section.

[rayn]

I've done this before with no problems. The two percs, even different colors are fine. It is when you mix different species you could have problems. Such as perc and tomato.

[fishsuse29]

I just did the same exact thing I had a regular orange false perc for about 2 years and recently added a black one to go along with it. They fought for a about a week but once they got that figured out they paired up nicely and now share the RBTA together.
One thing that i would say is important is that new new clown is signifigantly smaller then your established one.

[rayn]

The fighting is just claiming dominance between the two, so I wouldn't worry if it happens.

[JMartin104]

I have read quite often that you should not mix clowns. But I guess they are both occellaris so I guess the feedback you are getting is fine. But isn't the black occ. more aggressive than a "nemo"?

[PaulieReef]

Another great post. I am adopting a clown today and was worried I wouldnt be able to get another one later so they pair up. Sadly my friends heater broke and nuked the tank, he is the only survivor :P. Mr. Fish thanks for saving me the time on posting the same question

[rayn]

Originally Posted by JMartin104

I have read quite often that you should not mix clowns. But I guess they are both occellaris so I guess the feedback you are getting is fine. But isn't the black occ. more aggressive than a "nemo"?

Mixing is the species like tomato, perc, maroon, skunk. While the black may be more aggressive it should just take the dominate female role.

[RabbitKC99]

Originally Posted by rayn

Mixing is the species like tomato, perc, maroon, skunk. While the black may be more aggressive it should just take the dominate female role.

The first ocellaris clown may already be female (if it was the only clownfish in the friend's tank, then it almost definitely is female - even if it is male or juvenile, then it may turn female before the black ocellaris is obtained).

I think it's fine to add a second clown of the same type (and a black ocellaris is the same as the "regular" orange, but as has been said, make sure that the second clown is significantly smaller than the original. This is to try not to add two females to the tank (who will not be able to change gender and won't be able to establish a dominance hierarchy).

Hope this helps!

[PaulieReef]

Originally Posted by RabbitKC99

The first ocellaris clown may already be female (if it was the only clownfish in the friend's tank, then it almost definitely is female - even if it is male or juvenile, then it may turn female before the black ocellaris is obtained).

I think it's fine to add a second clown of the same type (and a black ocellaris is the same as the "regular" orange, but as has been said, make sure that the second clown is significantly smaller than the original. This is to try not to add two females to the tank (who will not be able to change gender and won't be able to establish a dominance hierarchy).

Hope this helps!

Sorry for the question, but turn female?? Can fish turn male as well? I wanted to get a pair of percs but I dont want two females .

[RabbitKC99]

Originally Posted by PaulieReef

Sorry for the question, but turn female?? Can fish turn male as well? I wanted to get a pair of percs but I dont want two females .

No problem on the question... clownfish species fish start out as juveniles - gender neutral. When they mature, the dominant fish becomes female and a subordinate fish becomes male. The male can progress onward to become female, but the females cannot go back.

Some fish will go from male to female; others will go from female to male (I think some of the pseudochromids do this). Search hermaphrodite (the two types are called protogynous and protandrous, I think). Note that I'm not saying that all fish are hermaphrodites.

[jeff@zina.com]

Only one issue I see: If both clowns are already adult they may be both female and never get along. Either one adult and one juvenile or both juvenile and they'll tussle for a bit to determine who gets to be the mommy. Assuming they're both occelaris of course, no matter what color form.

Jeff

[scubasteve06]

I started off with one occelaris clown. I then got another occelaris clown that was smaller than it and they had no problems whatsoever getting along. They did the little shaking thing back and forth for about 30 minutes and swam together, sleep together, and just plain do everything together. About 3 months ago I woke to find the male dead. About a week ago I decided to get my female another mate. I got a False Percula to go with my female Occelaris. It was the only one in its tank and not already paired so it would be more receptive to a dominant female. Even though they are two different species as soon as I dropped the perc in there was even less shaking and displaying than when I put the male occelaris in months ago. They get along fine and wont leave each others side. I'd only worry about mixing species if you are trying it with the more aggressive clowns like Tomatoes, Maroons, and Clarki's. Occelaris, Perc's, Skunk's are and will be more receptive to pairing with another species as they aren't known to be near as aggressive. FWIW.

[nichollecaren]

any theories on what happened to the male?

[lordofthereef]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fish

My plan was to add a regular clown first then add a black one after the regular one survives and my lfs gets the black one in.

Having some doubts are we?

[jeff@zina.com]

Originally Posted by scubasteve06

I got a False Percula to go with my female Occelaris.

A false percula IS an occelaris.

Jeff

[scubasteve06]

Originally Posted by nichollecaren

any theories on what happened to the male?

I did have a bout with flukes right after that so my guess was flukes.

Jeff- i didn't know that! I learn something new everyday!

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fish

I am planning my fish list for my 55 gallon reef and have finally decided to have an Ocellaris clownfish as my first fish. My plan was to add a regular clown first then add a black one after the regular one survives and my lfs gets the black one in. Would there be compatibility issues with adding them at different times, there may also be a size difference because they come from a different "batch".

Thanks

Why are you worried about it surviving? From you other threads I am wondering (( worried )) if you plan to use the clown to cycle your tank, is that the case here?

[Mr. Fish]

I just read The Conscientious Marine Aquarist and he recomends using a hardy fish to start the cycle. I was planning on using his method of cycling, I know most people on here think I should use a shrimp to cycle, but I want to follow the book. I am going to get about a pound of sand from my lfs show tank to help with the bacteria. I hope people on here dont hate me because I am not doing a fishless cycle.

Thanks for all the help.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fish

I just read The Conscientious Marine Aquarist and he recomends using a hardy fish to start the cycle. I was planning on using his method of cycling, I know most people on here think I should use a shrimp to cycle, but I want to follow the book. I am going to get about a pound of sand from my lfs show tank to help with the bacteria. I hope people on here dont hate me because I am not doing a fishless cycle.

Thanks for all the help.

I have that book, and overall it is decent. However, to recommend to start a cycle with a fish is wrong, there is no need to do that.

I wouldn't say "hate" but, it is unnecessary to do, and puts undo stress on the fish -- I wonder why people still do it.

[jflick345]

Here's a quote from a WetWebMedia Article by the same Bob Fenner:

"About Using Damsels, Other Life to Establish Cycling:

There are still some authors that encourage new aquarists to place fishes and/or invertebrates in new systems (as a source of ammonia, food for the bacteria) to start cycling. Often this stressful condition results in these animals loss. This practice is actually unnecessary as there is sufficient "food" from other sources, or you may add it as suggested below."


http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupii.htm

[Mr. Fish]

I also have a completely cycled 5 year old tank that I can put the clown in if it doesn't do well in the 55.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fish

I also have a completely cycled 5 year old tank that I can put the clown in if it doesn't do well in the 55.

But, why put it through the stress of an ammonia spike if you don't have too? There are numerous ways to start a cycle that don't involve putting a fish in there.

[rayn]

Get a bottle of Seachem Stability. Follow the direction on the bottle, but without fish. No this isn't a quicky cycle method, but it seems your wanting it fast. This puts bactieria in your water and will help with the ammonia.

I would still use the shrimp method, flake method, let it cycle on its own method myself. Maybe in conjunction with the stability.

[PaulieReef]

Originally Posted by RabbitKC99

No problem on the question... clownfish species fish start out as juveniles - gender neutral. When they mature, the dominant fish becomes female and a subordinate fish becomes male. The male can progress onward to become female, but the females cannot go back.

Some fish will go from male to female; others will go from female to male (I think some of the pseudochromids do this). Search hermaphrodite (the two types are called protogynous and protandrous, I think). Note that I'm not saying that all fish are hermaphrodites.

Thanks a bunch! I am getting an older clown whos been in the tank by itself so I am going to assume its a female already, and I am getting a juvenile clown (about 7-9 months) who is living with about 20-30 of its kind so hoping its still gender neutral.

Thanks again!