Questions About Refugiums.

[NomiGold]

I've been reading a little bit more on the basics of reef keeping, and I really love the idea of a refugium. Like always, the more I read, the more questions I come up with.

If I go with an in-sump refugium, how much of the sump should I devote to it? 20%? 50% As much as I can while still fitting in the pump/skimmer/bubble trap?

How much water from the tank should be directed through the refugium? As much as the sump? Less? For the input into the ref, should it go through a spray bar, or have something to trap the larger detritus? And, should I provide extra water circulation to the ref. if the input isn't enough? Is it better to have the refugium overflow into the return pump area or be hooked up to the main tank seperatly?

And what should go into a refugium? I know live rock and macroalgae should make up the bulk of the ref, but what type of algae would be best? And what sort of algae should be avoided at all costs? Is there any benefit of using live rock rubble over larger pieces? Are there any inhabitants I should consider adding?

What sort of lighting should I add to the ref? And is there anything I should watch out for if I plan to have my refugium on a reverse lighting schedule?

Sorry for all of these questions! And thank you for reading all that, if you made it through! XD And just for informations sake, I do not have a tank yet, this is all pre-setup research.

[Misled]

1. As much as possible.

2. All the water passing through the sump should pass through the fuge. 4-5 times tank volume.

3. Chaeto

4. 65k spiral bulb in a clip on reflector for light. Reverse cycle for lighting is what I use.

[get_armbarred]

Well here it goes hopefully this answers most of you questions. My refuge is about 33% of my sump. My overflow goes into my sump though a filter sock wich overflows into my fuge wich finally overflows into my return area. Watch some videos on you tube on making you sump "flood proof" it helps. My fuge has only cheto, copapods, and mud in it. I have a small reptile lamp that i run 24/7. My sump/fuge is 20 gal for my 40 gal tank but i know a few people running 20 gal sumps on larger tanks (55 and a 75). I advise you to watch the DIY forums for ideas on set up. And if possibal buy you skimmer and return pump before building or buying a sump so you know how much room you'll need for them.

Hopefully that will help you a little

[Reverend Reefer]

Originally Posted by NomiGold

I've been reading a little bit more on the basics of reef keeping, and I really love the idea of a refugium. Like always, the more I read, the more questions I come up with.

If I go with an in-sump refugium, how much of the sump should I devote to it? 20%? 50% As much as I can while still fitting in the pump/skimmer/bubble trap?

How much water from the tank should be directed through the refugium? As much as the sump? Less? For the input into the ref, should it go through a spray bar, or have something to trap the larger detritus? And, should I provide extra water circulation to the ref. if the input isn't enough? Is it better to have the refugium overflow into the return pump area or be hooked up to the main tank seperatly?

And what should go into a refugium? I know live rock and macroalgae should make up the bulk of the ref, but what type of algae would be best? And what sort of algae should be avoided at all costs? Is there any benefit of using live rock rubble over larger pieces? Are there any inhabitants I should consider adding?

What sort of lighting should I add to the ref? And is there anything I should watch out for if I plan to have my refugium on a reverse lighting schedule?

Sorry for all of these questions! And thank you for reading all that, if you made it through! XD And just for informations sake, I do not have a tank yet, this is all pre-setup research.

woah. hehe. questions are good. lemme give it try:

1. As much as I can while still fitting in the pump/skimmer/bubble trap.
-> i think you answered that, p.s. if you have an upgrade skimmer in mind, well, keep that in mind, along with upgrade return pumps
-> also you have to consider the return pump section of the sump, i have my auto-top off going into that section
-> also my return pump is tee'ed off to redirect someflow back into the fuge section

2. How much water from the tank should be directed through the refugium? As much as the sump? Less?
-> some people think of fuges like slow swamps, but others like more flow through them, so i guess its up to you. like i said, i have my return tee'd off to have some going back to my fuge
- i don't have a powerhead in my fuge though some people try to get their cheato balls to roll around in their fuges

3. For the input into the ref, should it go through a spray bar, or have something to trap the larger detritus? And, should I provide extra water circulation to the ref. if the input isn't enough? Is it better to have the refugium overflow into the return pump area or be hooked up to the main tank seperatly?
-> well it really does depend on what you want your fuge for and how you want it set-up and whether or not it is going to be a display fuge
-> i've seen some beautiful display fuges out there, in these large display fuges they do have powerheads, i don't have one but i get enuff flow through there, enuff that i don't get much cyano
- different set-ups have the fuge at different points, some people think after the skimmer section, which gets direct feed from the display, some people think the fuge should get the direct feed, i have a traditional sort of set up: display->sump skimmer section->sump fuge section->sump return section
-> if its an in-sump sorta thing, then you don't need a spraybar perse since the water will just go through a baffle or wall from one section to the other

4. And what should go into a refugium? I know live rock and macroalgae should make up the bulk of the ref, but what type of algae would be best? And what sort of algae should be avoided at all costs? Is there any benefit of using live rock rubble over larger pieces? Are there any inhabitants I should consider adding?

- this is also your choice, some people only have a ball of cheatomorpha or cheato in their fuge. its a macroalgae that is less likely to go "sexual", it looks like green spaghetti
- another popular or more infamously unpopular is caulerpa, the problem with caulerpa is that it has a tendency to go sexual which means it turns white and releases all these spores, anyways, best to avoid it since cheato is just as good
- against everybody's advice i still have grape caulerpa in my fuge, hasn't gone sexual yet but i guess maybe i'm a gambler? in my fuge i have gracillara (its red), cheato, caulerpa, crabs, an urchin and some snails, deep sand bed, and live rock, oh and a sponge
- some people like to keep sponges and even pulsing xenia in their fuges because they are filter feeders that may have some filtration benefits
- some people use this stuff called miracle mud, i wouldn't
- i used to keep red mangroves in my refugium until they outgrew it, these are pretty and have filtration benefits as well
- again, the choice of having sand or not is the same story, people say they like no sand, some people like sand
- i have a deep sand bed in my fuge, and consider it a remote DSB, since its not in my display, i like it and i find it does have filtration benefits but that's again, up to you
- having sand, i have a couple exiled hermit crabs in my fuge, with live rock and different kinds of macroalgae, i set mine up as a mini display fuge, as i like watching all the weirdo copepods and critters growing in it, by the thousands it seems
- you can put all kinds of things in your fuge, but everything has it good and bad, as everything in this hobby, i've seen a beautiful "fuge" that had a mantis shrimp in it, kinda defeats the purpose of a refuge in my opinion but he did grow macroalgae in it, anyways,...

5. What sort of lighting should I add to the ref? And is there anything I should watch out for if I plan to have my refugium on a reverse lighting schedule?
- a plain daylight bulb from a hardware store would be fine really, i think the macroalgae grows best under these, they're the spiral 6000K ones, you can even get one of those cheap clamp on things
- i use some old power compacts to light mine, just because i had them lying around
- some people run their fuges 24-7, maybe to discourage sexual whatever they call it, but most run it on a reverse photoperiod so that the ph swings are minimized, i haven't noticed this from testing, my ph still swings, but i still have it on a reverse photoperiod. since i have a display fuge, its cool to have something to look at when the lights are out in the display

different people have fuges for different reasons and this affects what they put in it, where they place it in their system, and how its designed.

mine is a display fuge so that sort of affects my decisions. some people even put mini-fuges above their display tank, to sort of grow pods that will feed their display. you can be creative and at the same time functional. it all depends on what you want out of it. most people that just want the phosphate reduction just have a tiny small section with a ball of cheato and a little light bulb and nothing else, where they harvest some of the cheato every two to three weeks for nutrient export.

anyways, i tried my best! here's that video i saw on youtube of that display refugium that is kinda funny since it has a mantis shrimp in it.... i wouldn't do what he did but it is interesting the things you can do with the concept of a refugium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWdhHEGFL7g

[NomiGold]

Thank you everyone for the great replies! I've got lot's to think about!

I most likely will not go for a display fuge just yet, though me being the nerd I am I will probably spend way to much time watching it! I do like the idea of keeping some inverts in it, provided they don't eat the algae or pods. Due to the likelyhood of space issues, it will probably be under the tank.

[scubasteve06]

Originally Posted by Reverend Reefer

woah. hehe. questions are good. lemme give it try:

1. As much as I can while still fitting in the pump/skimmer/bubble trap.
-> i think you answered that, p.s. if you have an upgrade skimmer in mind, well, keep that in mind, along with upgrade return pumps
-> also you have to consider the return pump section of the sump, i have my auto-top off going into that section
-> also my return pump is tee'ed off to redirect someflow back into the fuge section

2. How much water from the tank should be directed through the refugium? As much as the sump? Less?
-> some people think of fuges like slow swamps, but others like more flow through them, so i guess its up to you. like i said, i have my return tee'd off to have some going back to my fuge
- i don't have a powerhead in my fuge though some people try to get their cheato balls to roll around in their fuges

3. For the input into the ref, should it go through a spray bar, or have something to trap the larger detritus? And, should I provide extra water circulation to the ref. if the input isn't enough? Is it better to have the refugium overflow into the return pump area or be hooked up to the main tank seperatly?
-> well it really does depend on what you want your fuge for and how you want it set-up and whether or not it is going to be a display fuge
-> i've seen some beautiful display fuges out there, in these large display fuges they do have powerheads, i don't have one but i get enuff flow through there, enuff that i don't get much cyano
- different set-ups have the fuge at different points, some people think after the skimmer section, which gets direct feed from the display, some people think the fuge should get the direct feed, i have a traditional sort of set up: display->sump skimmer section->sump fuge section->sump return section
-> if its an in-sump sorta thing, then you don't need a spraybar perse since the water will just go through a baffle or wall from one section to the other

4. And what should go into a refugium? I know live rock and macroalgae should make up the bulk of the ref, but what type of algae would be best? And what sort of algae should be avoided at all costs? Is there any benefit of using live rock rubble over larger pieces? Are there any inhabitants I should consider adding?

- this is also your choice, some people only have a ball of cheatomorpha or cheato in their fuge. its a macroalgae that is less likely to go "sexual", it looks like green spaghetti
- another popular or more infamously unpopular is caulerpa, the problem with caulerpa is that it has a tendency to go sexual which means it turns white and releases all these spores, anyways, best to avoid it since cheato is just as good
- against everybody's advice i still have grape caulerpa in my fuge, hasn't gone sexual yet but i guess maybe i'm a gambler? in my fuge i have gracillara (its red), cheato, caulerpa, crabs, an urchin and some snails, deep sand bed, and live rock, oh and a sponge
- some people like to keep sponges and even pulsing xenia in their fuges because they are filter feeders that may have some filtration benefits
- some people use this stuff called miracle mud, i wouldn't
- i used to keep red mangroves in my refugium until they outgrew it, these are pretty and have filtration benefits as well
- again, the choice of having sand or not is the same story, people say they like no sand, some people like sand
- i have a deep sand bed in my fuge, and consider it a remote DSB, since its not in my display, i like it and i find it does have filtration benefits but that's again, up to you
- having sand, i have a couple exiled hermit crabs in my fuge, with live rock and different kinds of macroalgae, i set mine up as a mini display fuge, as i like watching all the weirdo copepods and critters growing in it, by the thousands it seems
- you can put all kinds of things in your fuge, but everything has it good and bad, as everything in this hobby, i've seen a beautiful "fuge" that had a mantis shrimp in it, kinda defeats the purpose of a refuge in my opinion but he did grow macroalgae in it, anyways,...

5. What sort of lighting should I add to the ref? And is there anything I should watch out for if I plan to have my refugium on a reverse lighting schedule?
- a plain daylight bulb from a hardware store would be fine really, i think the macroalgae grows best under these, they're the spiral 6000K ones, you can even get one of those cheap clamp on things
- i use some old power compacts to light mine, just because i had them lying around
- some people run their fuges 24-7, maybe to discourage sexual whatever they call it, but most run it on a reverse photoperiod so that the ph swings are minimized, i haven't noticed this from testing, my ph still swings, but i still have it on a reverse photoperiod. since i have a display fuge, its cool to have something to look at when the lights are out in the display

different people have fuges for different reasons and this affects what they put in it, where they place it in their system, and how its designed.

mine is a display fuge so that sort of affects my decisions. some people even put mini-fuges above their display tank, to sort of grow pods that will feed their display. you can be creative and at the same time functional. it all depends on what you want out of it. most people that just want the phosphate reduction just have a tiny small section with a ball of cheato and a little light bulb and nothing else, where they harvest some of the cheato every two to three weeks for nutrient export.

anyways, i tried my best! here's that video i saw on youtube of that display refugium that is kinda funny since it has a mantis shrimp in it.... i wouldn't do what he did but it is interesting the things you can do with the concept of a refugium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWdhHEGFL7g

Awesome post and awesome answers.

I love that fuge with the mantis shrimp in it, I think we should all strive to have our fuge's look that good one day.

I also have a frag of pulsing xenia in my fuge as I think it benefits the bulb I have and filter feeding because it grows better in the fuge than in the DT.

No green caluerpa and no miracle mud for reasons the Reverend says. After all he's a reverend right?

I have a DSB in mine with a ball of chaeto I trim once every 2 weeks to month, and I keep it tumbling slowly to make sure enough light hits the whole ball 24/7.

I have my fuge like this
Display>skimmer section>return pump>fuge
My return is t'd off to feed my fuge with a ball valve. I'd guess I have 200gph going thru a 7-8g section.

As I said at first rev's post covers it all and is a great explanation on fuges as you have seen there are tons of variations on the fuge.

P.S. If I had the space and extra tank I would have my fuge totally separate from my sump so it could get maximum contact time with the macro algae and absorb the most nutrients it could while providing a separate place for fauna that wouldn't survive in the display.

[mikeyj28]

i will have my fuge as follows.

skimmer section-->fuge-->return