New fish and ich poll

[skraj011]

How often do your new fish show signs of ich when placed in your display tank regardless of whether or not you quarantine?

[snorvich]

Have you quarantined them before adding them?

[sreefs]

I quarantine every thing for 8 weeks and have never had ich in main display. If fish show signs of ich in Qt I treat, then they stay in QT for another 8 weeks with no signs of ich before going in display.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by sreefs

I quarantine every thing for 8 weeks and have never had ich in main display. If fish show signs of ich in Qt I treat, then they stay in QT for another 8 weeks with no signs of ich before going in display.

Excellent!

[muttley000]

I have never had ich in a display since I started QT religiously. I am 3 weeks into a QT for a red scooter blenny, that most would day is not needed. He's still fat and happy in there, and eating frozen mysids like there is no tomorrow, so why cut it short and take a chance? My wife thought I was nuts when I would buy feeders for my oscars every 6 weeks, because I would qt them before I used them for feed

[MammothReefer]

I don't qt my fish, I haven't in years and never had an issue from ich. Sure I've gotten a spot now and then but if the fish is eating from the start and you keep it fed, your water parameters stable and give it a place to hide. I don't see the point in setting up a half a*s'd temporary holding system. It's never benefited me (when it comes to fish).

[jaa1456]

I always QT now, for at least 6-8 weeks. Even when I use to not QT I would get a fish with ICH every now and then. No matter how the fish was eating, or the water quality or hiding places. Some fish get it easier than others.

[nguyenD]

sometimes make it sounds frequent. Only happened once for me in the past 5yrs or so. 6-8 qt sounds great but man that's a long time. 2-3wks as log as I don't see it they're good to go for me.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by nguyenD

sometimes make it sounds frequent. Only happened once for me in the past 5yrs or so. 6-8 qt sounds great but man that's a long time. 2-3wks as log as I don't see it they're good to go for me.

In order to evaluate this period of time for prophylactic value it is best to understand the life cycle of this parasite. The life cycle of this parasite is interesting and is important to understand when evaluating a treatment or prophylactic quarantine period. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish and that is what you see symptomatically when you see "salt sprinkled on the fish". After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again. What this means is that when your tank is infected, you can actually see symptoms during a very small part of the life cycle, and it why your tank is infected even though your fish are resistant. It will also explain why symptoms come and go.

Many hobbyists are fooled into believing they have cured their fish of the parasites, only to find Ich present again on fish a few weeks later; a reason why following through with a full treatment protocol is so important. Don't make this mistake and be lulled into a false sense of security. The parasites may be in a stage where they are merely regrouping and multiplying for their "next offensive." In the wild, this sort of massive reproductive phase ensures that a few will find a suitable host to continue on the cycle. In the close confines of our aquariums, though, it means comparatively massive infection rates.

This disease is usually associated with several environmental triggers. Changes in water temperature, exposure to high levels of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, low pH levels, low dissolved oxygen often associated with overcrowding, are all factors contributing to the onset of the disease. You could lump all of these in a general category of "stress", but it is more appropriate to think of all of these as "unnatural conditions". In fact, Cryptocaryon irritans is rare in the wild even more unlikely to be lethal. Ich is truly a disease that exploits the conditions of captivity to reproduce and easily find suitable hosts.

By the way, trophonts are under the skin so cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp have no real effect on reducing this parasite.

So, in summary, it would be best by far to exceed two times the life cycle in selecting a quarantine period.

[bigdoug]

While on this topic what equipment is "needed" to have a QT with least expense?

[MammothReefer]

Hmm.. I donnu I haven't lost a fish from ICH in 7-8 years, when I did It was my first tank, and I'm sure my water parameters were way out of line to. That's not to say that I haven't had ICH present in my systems. We all can/do, but I've never found it to be a matter of concern or ever resulted in the death of a fish without some serious outside factors that would have killed the fish regardless of having ICH (ie water parameters or stress from other fish). It's like Red bugs on acros. If everything else is solid they really shouldn't be a cause for alarm. Setting up another tank for 8 weeks, then moving it over eh, sure you may kill any chance of getting it from that fish but what about that coral you added or that piece of rock? It can come from almost anything you drop in your tank if you have unlucky timing. It's just not worth the added risk/stress/and hassle to move your fish from system to system for me. As well the issues you have now trying to maintain two systems as you can't just QT it in a tank run off water from a split sump or you risk commentating the whole system. Unless I bought some crazy super delicate really expensive angel I don't think I would ever bother QT'n a fish for ICH again.

[sreefs]

As Calfo told me years ago, I QT everything wet for at least 8 weeks. Fish, corals, snails, crabs, I have way to much invested in my display to take the chance. I know too many that it caught up to with no Qt system.

[muttley000]

Originally Posted by MammothReefer

Hmm.. I donnu I haven't lost a fish from ICH in 7-8 years, when I did It was my first tank, and I'm sure my water parameters were way out of line to. That's not to say that I haven't had ICH present in my systems. We all can/do, but I've never found it to be a matter of concern or ever resulted in the death of a fish without some serious outside factors that would have killed the fish regardless of having ICH (ie water parameters or stress from other fish). It's like Red bugs on acros. If everything else is solid they really shouldn't be a cause for alarm. Setting up another tank for 8 weeks, then moving it over eh, sure you may kill any chance of getting it from that fish but what about that coral you added or that piece of rock? It can come from almost anything you drop in your tank if you have unlucky timing. It's just not worth the added risk/stress/and hassle to move your fish from system to system for me. As well the issues you have now trying to maintain two systems as you can't just QT it in a tank run off water from a split sump or you risk commentating the whole system. Unless I bought some crazy super delicate really expensive angel I don't think I would ever bother QT'n a fish for ICH again.

It don't work unless you QT everything wet, including coral and rock. And not everyone values the life of thier captive charges by the price or how delicate they are told it is.

[Big E]

It's seems odd to me why people focus on ich when it comes to QT or display. That's the least of my worries because the parasite is well researched & understood. All the facts are out there & the disease is easy to indentify & treat.

Brook & Velvet are the dangerous killers if you don't QT. Keep it up & eventually you'll get burned by not using QT. I've had two bouts with Velvet from what is considered one of the best online vendors. Both times the QT fish died...............it would have wiped out my other display tank fish that I've had for 7-17 years if I had not QT'd.

[MammothReefer]

Originally Posted by muttley000

It don't work unless you QT everything wet, including coral and rock. And not everyone values the life of thier captive charges by the price or how delicate they are told it is.

Eh, and what happens when you get a fish and a coral at the same time? Do you setup 2 QTs? What happens when you get a fish, and then another fish 3 weeks later. Do you setup 3 Qts, or just keep plopping fish in the same QT extending the amount of time you QT your fish for into you end up with a FOWLR for a half year. When it comes to price/delicacy. For as long as I've been keeping reefs/fish it's been pretty much a general rule the more expensive the fish is typically the more delicate they are. 2$ Damsel... 600$ Angel.

But like I said, ICH shouldn't be an issue as long as your water parameters are on par, you've picked a healthy fish to begin with, and you keep it well fed and in a stable safe environment.

Really how many of you "experienced reefers" have lost a fish to ich since you cut your teeth? While I have yet to see ICH in my current system, in my old 500 my tangs would show a little ich now and then, but they were well fed and lived until I tore down and sold the systems off. It never presented it's self as an issue.

[sneakerpimp]

Originally Posted by MammothReefer

Hmm.. I donnu I haven't lost a fish from ICH in 7-8 years, when I did It was my first tank, and I'm sure my water parameters were way out of line to. That's not to say that I haven't had ICH present in my systems. We all can/do, but I've never found it to be a matter of concern or ever resulted in the death of a fish without some serious outside factors that would have killed the fish regardless of having ICH (ie water parameters or stress from other fish). It's like Red bugs on acros. If everything else is solid they really shouldn't be a cause for alarm. Setting up another tank for 8 weeks, then moving it over eh, sure you may kill any chance of getting it from that fish but what about that coral you added or that piece of rock? It can come from almost anything you drop in your tank if you have unlucky timing. It's just not worth the added risk/stress/and hassle to move your fish from system to system for me. As well the issues you have now trying to maintain two systems as you can't just QT it in a tank run off water from a split sump or you risk commentating the whole system. Unless I bought some crazy super delicate really expensive angel I don't think I would ever bother QT'n a fish for ICH again.

I agree. All my fish had ich and I moved them out to my half ***(yet expensive) qt for eight weeks. about four days ago I was getting ready to move them out and the tanks bottom broke. Close to a grand worth of fish lost over night.

QT tanks are not worth it for everyone. I'm pretty sure there are natural marine ich treatments that will do the job along with keeping a healthy tank.

[aquaph8]

What does the tanks bottom breaking have to do with ich. Neither ich nor the QT process caused your loss.

[TripleT]

Originally Posted by MammothReefer

Eh, and what happens when you get a fish and a coral at the same time? Do you setup 2 QTs? What happens when you get a fish, and then another fish 3 weeks later. Do you setup 3 Qts, or just keep plopping fish in the same QT extending the amount of time you QT your fish for into you end up with a FOWLR for a half year. When it comes to price/delicacy. For as long as I've been keeping reefs/fish it's been pretty much a general rule the more expensive the fish is typically the more delicate they are. 2$ Damsel... 600$ Angel.

But like I said, ICH shouldn't be an issue as long as your water parameters are on par, you've picked a healthy fish to begin with, and you keep it well fed and in a stable safe environment.

Really how many of you "experienced reefers" have lost a fish to ich since you cut your teeth? While I have yet to see ICH in my current system, in my old 500 my tangs would show a little ich now and then, but they were well fed and lived until I tore down and sold the systems off. It never presented it's self as an issue.

+1

Ich is not your major concern.

Read the forums long enough, and you'll see the occassional "all my fish are dying shortly after a new purchase" threads.

My fish are my pets, and I would never risk their exposure to velvet, especially when a nice QT can be set up for $100 or so.

Not to mention a QT tank serves several other purposes.

[sneakerpimp]

Originally Posted by aquaph8

What does the tanks bottom breaking have to do with ich. Neither ich nor the QT process caused your loss.

I explained my background on the topic. Then I moved on to why I'm not using a quarantine tank again to treat marine ich.

This choice to not use a quarantine tank will require special care when purchasing and introducing new fish to the aquarium. As well as exclude certain fish that are more susceptible to Ichthyophthirius multifiliis.

Do you follow me?

[aquaph8]

I guess. I wish you the best with your logic. good day.

[mrstihl]

I'll admit I don't QT. I have never had an ich outbreak either or any signs of it. Maybe I'm luck and maybe it has a little bit to do with the fact that my LFS has a few very knowledgable and honest employees who even tell me if I need to wait a while to buy a fish so they can observe it longer.

[muttley000]

Originally Posted by MammothReefer

Eh, and what happens when you get a fish and a coral at the same time? Do you setup 2 QTs? What happens when you get a fish, and then another fish 3 weeks later. Do you setup 3 Qts, or just keep plopping fish in the same QT extending the amount of time you QT your fish for into you end up with a FOWLR for a half year...

I don't mind having 2 tanks support a display, but I can see why others wouldn't want to deal with it. I personally set up another one or restart the timer. I also have a separate tank I QT corals from fish anyways. One good point that has been made that ick is not the worst of what we are trying to keep out with QT procedures.

[aquaph8]

Originally Posted by muttley000

ick is not the worst of what we are trying to keep out with QT procedures.

This point cant be stressed enough. Afterall most of us are passing stuff from reefer to reefer.

[small alien]

Originally Posted by nguyenD

sometimes make it sounds frequent. Only happened once for me in the past 5yrs or so. 6-8 qt sounds great but man that's a long time. 2-3wks as log as I don't see it they're good to go for me.

+1

I don't treat unless I see symptoms and I never have in QT except a royal gramma that was a goner.

The only time I've ever had a new fish get ich is a banded pipe I added directly with no QT. All other fish got it. Only a green banded goby died. This was a year and a half ago in a different tank.

I do not consider my current tank ich free even though I've never once seen a spot. I don't QT all coral and rock and have never copper'd or hypo'd a fish, so I figure it is in there. If it ever sprung up, I'd probably try some biological approaches over medication and fallow, at least to start. There are other diseases I'm more concerned about that seem more deadly.

[small alien]

For me, QT has as much to do with acclimation, observation and feeding as it does disease prevention. I QT 90% of my fish now. Some from DD I do not for various reasons though I would not recommend that approach to others. It is a calculated risk.