using Murinic Acid question

nightfire · 11/29/2010, 08:57 AM

so guys i plan to use Murinic Acid on rock i got from a fellow reefer and if is a pretty good amount of rock....maybe letting it soak in it twice to make sure any po4 is gone....the rock is dead and pretty clean and white so it should work rather fast maybe soaking it over night...changing that water out and doing it for one more night? then soak it again in pure ro/di water and then let it sit in salt water for a month to cycle? i dont care for it to have coraline on it so after it cycles i can place it in the tank? though the thing here is that my 55g already have 4 fish....soon to be 5 and a good amount of coraline covered LR which is covered pretty well in hair algae so i wanted to switch it out with the new rock i let sit and cycle.....is it a good idea if after it cycled to switch it all out at once for how? also the rock i take out of my display i want to use so should i just use acid on it also? i dont see the point in cooking it like normal and wasting saltwater as im on a ghetto budget lol i thought maybe after i took that rock out to do acid on it like i did with the other rock but after that is done i wouldnt have to cycle it and can just place it in the tank and have the rock already there seed it......does all this sound ok? oh and i have a rock oor two in there that dont have much hair on them so would it be ok to just leave those alone or use acid on those just to make sure no po4 spreads from them? thanks people

Tbduval · 11/29/2010, 09:03 AM

Its hard to tell. Putting the MA in should lower the PH of the water and help release the PO4. How long this will take, I would think it depends on how much PO4, if any, is stored in the rocks. A test kit would be your best option to see if PO4 is released after you soak the rocks. Are you concerned that your rock is holding onto PO4?

nightfire · 11/29/2010, 09:08 AM

lol i know it is being that the rock in my taank has hair algae in it and the rock i got from my friend was taken out of his tank due to po4 in it....he replaced the whole thing and gave me this rock for free,telling me i would need to do something to get rid of the po4

nightfire · 11/29/2010, 10:08 AM

bump

sirreal63 · 11/29/2010, 10:45 AM

Many of us have done the acid bath to remove everything from the rock. A 1 to 10 ratio works well. One thing you need to be aware of, the clean rock will be a magnet for algae...so unless you correct the water quality issues you have, the new rock will grow algae very well. Seeding it with rock that is already covered in algae in the same water that is currently growing the existing algae is not going to be a good long term solution.

Correct the existing issues first before adding the clean rock to the tank. GFO and a lot of water changes, manual removal of existing algae. Not correcting the cause of the algae will ensure that it is still there. :-)

nightfire · 11/29/2010, 11:08 AM

no no i plan on not having that rock that has HA on it....i will cycle the clean rock that was acid washed with ammonia only....when im ready i was thinking of taking all the old rock out and putting the new rock in.......and since it cycled it should be fine no?

sirreal63 · 11/29/2010, 11:35 AM

It will be fine until the water that helped create the hair algae absorbs into the new rock. Then you will have hair algae all over again.

You have algae because you have nutrients and light. You must have the light for the corals, so if you don't want the algae, remove the nutrients. It takes both light and nutrients to grow algae, all of the light in the world, and no nutrients will not grow hair algae, conversely, massive nutrients and zero light and you will not grow hair algae. The solution is to take the nutrients away from the hair algae. There are many ways to do this, GFO and water changes is time tested and it simply works. Phosphates are the usual culprit and grow it best in our tanks. Growing Chaeto or bacteria also work well, but nothing works better than dilution.

Fix the water quality issues and the algae will not grow. I hope that makes sense? :-)

nightfire · 11/29/2010, 11:49 AM

already using phosguard......hardly any lights and hardly any food....skimming and only 4 fish in the tank....like i said before my algae problems came from using tap water for about a year.....for the past 2 months though i have been using ro/di water and the HA is not growing as fast so again the problem seems to be that and i think there is tto much po4 built up in the rock in my system right now so if i took all that out and added the new rock that is clean and use my ro/di water it should be alot better.....my question is after i clean that rock with acid and ave it sit and cycle for a month to get the bactirea on in it can i take all the rock out of my tank and replace it with the new rock all at once? seems to me i could but not sure

sirreal63 · 11/29/2010, 12:05 PM

It should work, in theory, but there is no way of knowing if enough of a biological filter will be created. If you have sand, then you will also have PO4 bound in it but it also will contain part of the biological filter, so don't remove both at the same time. I would do as you are planning. I have acid bathed rock a few times, once with vinegar and a few times with Muriatic acid, the Muriatic is much stronger, so use caution.

If it helps any, I never had much luck with PhosGuard, the high capacity GFO from BRS works great.

nightfire · 11/29/2010, 12:10 PM

im with ya on that phosguard seems like a waste of money, i think this month i will get some gfo from BFS that and the new acid washed rocks should be all thats needed to have my tank looking good

Tbduval · 11/29/2010, 12:31 PM

Surreal63 is right. You need to get PO4 under control, assuming that the major problem. I had the same problem in the past. You need to run a lot of GFO. How long has the tank been running? Hair algae is more fueled by a couple of things. Whats your ALK level at? PH? If there is high levels of CO2 in the tank this could help the hair algae but with saying that you cant get rid of it. IMO, adding new rock, taking out old rock, you are asking for more or the same problems.

nightfire · 11/29/2010, 01:08 PM

tanks been up for over a year now....for almost that long all i been using is tap water and no its not due to over feeding because i had hair algae start coming in before i even added fish and some dead rock i had bought a good while back went straight into my tank with out cooking it and that was my big fault....what little phopate that is in the tank now is being eaten up by the hair algae being that when i test for po4 it reads 0 so i dont see how taking that rock out...putting new rock in and doing a large water change cant at the very least help if not fix it comepletely......and of course replacing this crap phosguard

Whisperer · 11/29/2010, 01:09 PM

What is Murinic acid? I have not heard of that one.

Tbduval · 11/29/2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfire

tanks been up for over a year now....for almost that long all i been using is tap water and no its not due to over feeding because i had hair algae start coming in before i even added fish and some dead rock i had bought a good while back went straight into my tank with out cooking it and that was my big fault....what little phopate that is in the tank now is being eaten up by the hair algae being that when i test for po4 it reads 0 so i dont see how taking that rock out...putting new rock in and doing a large water change cant at the very least help if not fix it comepletely......and of course replacing this crap phosguard

Do you know your PH and ALK level?

11/29/2010, 08:57 AM	#1
nightfire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lyles, Tn. Posts: 1,436	using Murinic Acid question so guys i plan to use Murinic Acid on rock i got from a fellow reefer and if is a pretty good amount of rock....maybe letting it soak in it twice to make sure any po4 is gone....the rock is dead and pretty clean and white so it should work rather fast maybe soaking it over night...changing that water out and doing it for one more night? then soak it again in pure ro/di water and then let it sit in salt water for a month to cycle? i dont care for it to have coraline on it so after it cycles i can place it in the tank? though the thing here is that my 55g already have 4 fish....soon to be 5 and a good amount of coraline covered LR which is covered pretty well in hair algae so i wanted to switch it out with the new rock i let sit and cycle.....is it a good idea if after it cycled to switch it all out at once for how? also the rock i take out of my display i want to use so should i just use acid on it also? i dont see the point in cooking it like normal and wasting saltwater as im on a ghetto budget lol i thought maybe after i took that rock out to do acid on it like i did with the other rock but after that is done i wouldnt have to cycle it and can just place it in the tank and have the rock already there seed it......does all this sound ok? oh and i have a rock oor two in there that dont have much hair on them so would it be ok to just leave those alone or use acid on those just to make sure no po4 spreads from them? thanks people __________________ Mario

11/29/2010, 09:08 AM	#3
nightfire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lyles, Tn. Posts: 1,436	lol i know it is being that the rock in my taank has hair algae in it and the rock i got from my friend was taken out of his tank due to po4 in it....he replaced the whole thing and gave me this rock for free,telling me i would need to do something to get rid of the po4 __________________ Mario

11/29/2010, 10:08 AM	#4
nightfire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lyles, Tn. Posts: 1,436	bump __________________ Mario

11/29/2010, 10:45 AM	#5
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	Many of us have done the acid bath to remove everything from the rock. A 1 to 10 ratio works well. One thing you need to be aware of, the clean rock will be a magnet for algae...so unless you correct the water quality issues you have, the new rock will grow algae very well. Seeding it with rock that is already covered in algae in the same water that is currently growing the existing algae is not going to be a good long term solution. Correct the existing issues first before adding the clean rock to the tank. GFO and a lot of water changes, manual removal of existing algae. Not correcting the cause of the algae will ensure that it is still there. :-) __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

11/29/2010, 11:08 AM	#6
nightfire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lyles, Tn. Posts: 1,436	no no i plan on not having that rock that has HA on it....i will cycle the clean rock that was acid washed with ammonia only....when im ready i was thinking of taking all the old rock out and putting the new rock in.......and since it cycled it should be fine no? __________________ Mario

11/29/2010, 09:03 AM	#2
Tbduval Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 369	Its hard to tell. Putting the MA in should lower the PH of the water and help release the PO4. How long this will take, I would think it depends on how much PO4, if any, is stored in the rocks. A test kit would be your best option to see if PO4 is released after you soak the rocks. Are you concerned that your rock is holding onto PO4?

11/29/2010, 11:35 AM	#7
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	It will be fine until the water that helped create the hair algae absorbs into the new rock. Then you will have hair algae all over again. You have algae because you have nutrients and light. You must have the light for the corals, so if you don't want the algae, remove the nutrients. It takes both light and nutrients to grow algae, all of the light in the world, and no nutrients will not grow hair algae, conversely, massive nutrients and zero light and you will not grow hair algae. The solution is to take the nutrients away from the hair algae. There are many ways to do this, GFO and water changes is time tested and it simply works. Phosphates are the usual culprit and grow it best in our tanks. Growing Chaeto or bacteria also work well, but nothing works better than dilution. Fix the water quality issues and the algae will not grow. I hope that makes sense? :-) __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

11/29/2010, 11:49 AM	#8
nightfire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lyles, Tn. Posts: 1,436	already using phosguard......hardly any lights and hardly any food....skimming and only 4 fish in the tank....like i said before my algae problems came from using tap water for about a year.....for the past 2 months though i have been using ro/di water and the HA is not growing as fast so again the problem seems to be that and i think there is tto much po4 built up in the rock in my system right now so if i took all that out and added the new rock that is clean and use my ro/di water it should be alot better.....my question is after i clean that rock with acid and ave it sit and cycle for a month to get the bactirea on in it can i take all the rock out of my tank and replace it with the new rock all at once? seems to me i could but not sure __________________ Mario

11/29/2010, 12:05 PM	#9
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	It should work, in theory, but there is no way of knowing if enough of a biological filter will be created. If you have sand, then you will also have PO4 bound in it but it also will contain part of the biological filter, so don't remove both at the same time. I would do as you are planning. I have acid bathed rock a few times, once with vinegar and a few times with Muriatic acid, the Muriatic is much stronger, so use caution. If it helps any, I never had much luck with PhosGuard, the high capacity GFO from BRS works great. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

11/29/2010, 12:10 PM	#10
nightfire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lyles, Tn. Posts: 1,436	im with ya on that phosguard seems like a waste of money, i think this month i will get some gfo from BFS that and the new acid washed rocks should be all thats needed to have my tank looking good __________________ Mario

11/29/2010, 12:31 PM	#11
Tbduval Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 369	Surreal63 is right. You need to get PO4 under control, assuming that the major problem. I had the same problem in the past. You need to run a lot of GFO. How long has the tank been running? Hair algae is more fueled by a couple of things. Whats your ALK level at? PH? If there is high levels of CO2 in the tank this could help the hair algae but with saying that you cant get rid of it. IMO, adding new rock, taking out old rock, you are asking for more or the same problems.

11/29/2010, 01:08 PM	#12
nightfire Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lyles, Tn. Posts: 1,436	tanks been up for over a year now....for almost that long all i been using is tap water and no its not due to over feeding because i had hair algae start coming in before i even added fish and some dead rock i had bought a good while back went straight into my tank with out cooking it and that was my big fault....what little phopate that is in the tank now is being eaten up by the hair algae being that when i test for po4 it reads 0 so i dont see how taking that rock out...putting new rock in and doing a large water change cant at the very least help if not fix it comepletely......and of course replacing this crap phosguard __________________ Mario

11/29/2010, 01:09 PM	#13
Whisperer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Punta Gorda, FL Posts: 4,020	What is Murinic acid? I have not heard of that one. __________________ The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. --------- No one is born with intellect and age guarantees wisdom to no one. Current Tank Info: 120G reef, 30G sump, 10G QT tank

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