Water circulation question!!

SPICYcracker · 03/31/2011, 04:33 PM

Im new to the hobby.. just got done cycling my 120 gallon 48x24x24 reef tank. For a return pump im using a mag24 that i already had, my skimmer is a brand new SWC 180. I love the flow the mag gives without having any extra power heads... My question is this, my pump is loud and i want a quieter pump. Would it be best to get a pump that turns my tank over only 10 times and hour and get a few power heads or... get 2 return pumps rated at 1300gph, 1 for each return. Im trying to stay away from using power heads. Thanks for your help!

Nolan

Sisterlimonpot · 03/31/2011, 04:54 PM

Wonder why your Mag is loud. Unless it's vibrating up against the glass amplifying the sound.

If you want to go without power heads in the tank you can always incorporate a closed loop system in your tank. Do a search and read up on them. As for using 2 separate return pumps don't do it.

HTH

bertoni · 03/31/2011, 05:31 PM

I would run more like 3-4 x through the sump, and get the rest through powerheads. Circulation through the sump is the noisiest and most expensive approach.

SPICYcracker · 03/31/2011, 06:23 PM

ok awesome!! thanks so much for your help! Very much appreciated!

bertoni · 03/31/2011, 06:46 PM

You're welcome!

MICHAEL128 · 03/31/2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

Wonder why your Mag is loud. Unless it's vibrating up against the glass amplifying the sound.

If you want to go without power heads in the tank you can always incorporate a closed loop system in your tank. Do a search and read up on them. As for using 2 separate return pumps don't do it.

HTH

I'm new at this, but have been studying/reading reefkeeping for the past 15 months. What is the concern with using 2 separate return pumps, both sitting in the sump?

Sisterlimonpot · 03/31/2011, 09:05 PM

It's over kill, both pumps are going to be doing the same thing, you can accomplish the same thing with 1 pump and just splitting it to 2 returns, if you put ball valves on the returns, you can control the amount to each one, and not to mention allowing you to turn the flow through the sump down.

bertoni · 03/31/2011, 09:50 PM

Using two pumps should work, and it might give some redundancy to handle failures, but it is more complicated.

SPICYcracker · 03/31/2011, 10:16 PM

now is it, the more water to pump through, the louder the overflow will sound? i prefer 1 pump. I do have a ball valve on it now, if i was to turn it down, would this effect the pump and make it hot?

bertoni · 03/31/2011, 10:25 PM

Generally, the higher the flow rate, the louder the overflow, but there are devices for making the flow a lot quieter, if that's an issue. Turning down the ball valve on the pump is supposed to be fine, but I haven't needed to try that, personally.

Sisterlimonpot · 03/31/2011, 10:27 PM

definitely wont hurt the pump, all your doing is simulating more head pressure. AS for it running hotter, I couldn't comment on that. But it's definitely safe to do it.

SPICYcracker · 03/31/2011, 10:39 PM

Ok great.. I have cut the flow in half but turning the ball valve half way closed and everything got so much quieter. amazing. Im looking for some good power heads now, dont know exactly what i should get, im deff not spending all that money on a mp40.

victorcan · 03/31/2011, 10:46 PM

but they are so worth it.. By the time you look at wave controllers they are cheaper in the long run and better operating than in water pumps.. Just my opinion .. I love mine and all the differnt setting you get with the press of a button let a lone the custimization... Buy em used if the new price hurts

Sisterlimonpot · 03/31/2011, 10:52 PM

I'm back and forth on those MP40's, I have 2 of them and really like them, I just had a hard time paying that much for them. After owning them I still can't justify the price. For what you're looking for they will be perfect just because they don't occupy so much space in the tank. They have a lot of features however for me when the novelty of having waves in the tank wore off, I just set them to reef crest mode (synched) and left them there.

MICHAEL128 · 04/01/2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPICYcracker

Ok great.. I have cut the flow in half but turning the ball valve half way closed and everything got so much quieter. amazing. Im looking for some good power heads now, dont know exactly what i should get, im deff not spending all that money on a mp40.

I read on Reef Central that if you have to throttle back (cut down) the pump flow more than 1/3, the pump is really too powerful for your application, and you should use a smaller pump.

One great way of throttling back a pump is to insert a T fitting in the return line and put a ball valve below the T, so some of the return water drains back into the pump area. It puts much less stress on the pump. I'm going to try this on my new 180g tank that I'll have up and running within the next 3 months.

MICHAEL128 · 04/01/2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

It's over kill, both pumps are going to be doing the same thing, you can accomplish the same thing with 1 pump and just splitting it to 2 returns, if you put ball valves on the returns, you can control the amount to each one, and not to mention allowing you to turn the flow through the sump down.

Thank you for replying. I'm setting up a new 180g reef tank. Hope to be up and running within next 3 months. I'm considering running 2 smaller pumps (1 on each of the 2 return lines) instead of 1 larger pump, to have some redundancy in the system. I've read many, many stories (some on Reef Central) of pumps failing while there is no one home, and the resulting problems they encountered. I should be able to get the same flow I want using 2 smaller pumps instead of 1 larger puimp (using ball valves, as you mentioned). So, I don't consider it overkill, I consider it safety through redundancy. I like the odds against both pumps failing at the same time.

saltjohnswharf · 04/01/2011, 11:28 PM

Why not a closed loop return?

bertoni · 04/02/2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MICHAEL128

I've read many, many stories (some on Reef Central) of pumps failing while there is no one home, and the resulting problems they encountered. ... So, I don't consider it overkill, I consider it safety through redundancy.

You think the same way I do.

MICHAEL128 · 04/02/2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

You think the same way I do.

Thank you, Jonathan. It sure is nice to know that we have Reef Central where we can exchange ideas, learn from each other, and discuss how we can take good care of these wonderful reef creatures.

03/31/2011, 04:33 PM	#1
SPICYcracker Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: long beach ca. Posts: 280	Water circulation question!! Im new to the hobby.. just got done cycling my 120 gallon 48x24x24 reef tank. For a return pump im using a mag24 that i already had, my skimmer is a brand new SWC 180. I love the flow the mag gives without having any extra power heads... My question is this, my pump is loud and i want a quieter pump. Would it be best to get a pump that turns my tank over only 10 times and hour and get a few power heads or... get 2 return pumps rated at 1300gph, 1 for each return. Im trying to stay away from using power heads. Thanks for your help! Nolan

03/31/2011, 04:54 PM	#2
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	Wonder why your Mag is loud. Unless it's vibrating up against the glass amplifying the sound. If you want to go without power heads in the tank you can always incorporate a closed loop system in your tank. Do a search and read up on them. As for using 2 separate return pumps don't do it. HTH __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

03/31/2011, 05:31 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I would run more like 3-4 x through the sump, and get the rest through powerheads. Circulation through the sump is the noisiest and most expensive approach. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/31/2011, 06:46 PM	#5
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You're welcome! __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/31/2011, 09:05 PM	#7
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	It's over kill, both pumps are going to be doing the same thing, you can accomplish the same thing with 1 pump and just splitting it to 2 returns, if you put ball valves on the returns, you can control the amount to each one, and not to mention allowing you to turn the flow through the sump down. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

03/31/2011, 06:23 PM	#4
SPICYcracker Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: long beach ca. Posts: 280	ok awesome!! thanks so much for your help! Very much appreciated!

03/31/2011, 09:50 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Using two pumps should work, and it might give some redundancy to handle failures, but it is more complicated. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/31/2011, 10:16 PM	#9
SPICYcracker Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: long beach ca. Posts: 280	now is it, the more water to pump through, the louder the overflow will sound? i prefer 1 pump. I do have a ball valve on it now, if i was to turn it down, would this effect the pump and make it hot?

03/31/2011, 10:25 PM	#10
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Generally, the higher the flow rate, the louder the overflow, but there are devices for making the flow a lot quieter, if that's an issue. Turning down the ball valve on the pump is supposed to be fine, but I haven't needed to try that, personally. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/31/2011, 10:27 PM	#11
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	definitely wont hurt the pump, all your doing is simulating more head pressure. AS for it running hotter, I couldn't comment on that. But it's definitely safe to do it. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

03/31/2011, 10:39 PM	#12
SPICYcracker Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: long beach ca. Posts: 280	Ok great.. I have cut the flow in half but turning the ball valve half way closed and everything got so much quieter. amazing. Im looking for some good power heads now, dont know exactly what i should get, im deff not spending all that money on a mp40.

03/31/2011, 10:46 PM	#13
victorcan Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: E. Amherst NY Posts: 528	but they are so worth it.. By the time you look at wave controllers they are cheaper in the long run and better operating than in water pumps.. Just my opinion .. I love mine and all the differnt setting you get with the press of a button let a lone the custimization... Buy em used if the new price hurts __________________ Store DT: 150gal TALL- Octopus Classic 150 skimmer, 40Gal fuge/sump,Dual Radion X3, Dual Vortech MP40's Home DT: 220Gal Reef Octopus 5000, 75Gal Fuge, 125gal Sump, 5 Radion G4Pros, 3 Vortech mp40, Ja Current Tank Info: 220Gal Mixed Reef

03/31/2011, 10:52 PM	#14
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	I'm back and forth on those MP40's, I have 2 of them and really like them, I just had a hard time paying that much for them. After owning them I still can't justify the price. For what you're looking for they will be perfect just because they don't occupy so much space in the tank. They have a lot of features however for me when the novelty of having waves in the tank wore off, I just set them to reef crest mode (synched) and left them there. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

04/01/2011, 11:28 PM	#17
saltjohnswharf Conscientious Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Carmichael, CA Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	Why not a closed loop return? __________________ If you had to live the rest of your life in an aquarium what would your minimum tank size be? Think before you buy Current Tank Info: 27 gallon Dying Reef Biotope

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