Mysis vs. Brine

kmasonbx · 04/04/2011, 10:15 AM

I read on here that Mysis is a much better food source than Brine because Brine doesn't have much nutritional value. I had bought some Brine a while ago and was feeding my fish that once or twice a week but upon reading the bad reviews for Brine from posters on this board I bought Mysis yesterday. However looking on the back of the packs of both I noticed the Brine has more protein than the Mysis and less moisture. The only things listed are protein, fat, fiber and moisture and no vitamins.

Are there other reasons besides protein that make Mysis more beneficial than Brine?

DevilBoy · 04/04/2011, 10:19 AM

the best mysis brand imo to use is the PE mysis .

Allmost · 04/04/2011, 10:21 AM

Hello,
one thing to check for, is to see if both are dry analysis, or wet ! gotta compare similar analysis.

second, which Mysis ? PE mysis is the one with high nutritional value, hickari is next,

third, which brine ? was it enriched like Hickari ? enriched brine has higher value.

Brine shrimp itself, compared to a Mysis shrimp has NO nutrition.

DevilBoy · 04/04/2011, 10:22 AM

here is the PE mysis

https://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.c...3&pcatid=19763

Nanz · 04/04/2011, 10:27 AM

I agree 100% with what "Almost" said. Having been a clownfish breeder and dwarf seahorse owner I can agree that even enriched brine is poor compared to mysis.

I did have a problem with PE Mysis though. The Mysis is LARGER and my anthias would not eat it. I use Hikari mysis and have no problems.

WienerDog · 04/04/2011, 10:34 AM

What about live mysis...I feed alot of live mysis. Are they more nutritional?

k.tran · 04/04/2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilBoy

the best mysis brand imo to use is the PE mysis .

PE mysis is so DIRTY! I use hikari mysis and its super clean.

Hikari does have siprulina brine which is gutloaded and not coated in spirulina.

jeff@zina.com · 04/04/2011, 12:12 PM

Baby brine have plenty of nutrition, but after a day their egg sac is gone and they need to be fed. You can increase the nutrition with various HUFA supplements like Selcon. Mysis on the other hand often also has no nutrition. Natively it's slightly better, but the majority of mysis products use a freshwater mysis which is missing many of the food ingredients needed for saltwater organisms. Again, enrichment is the key.

Some vendors enrich better than others. I agree that the Hikari product is generally better than PE Mysis. But you can soak both in Selcon and get improvements. Or better, feed mysis as part of a varied diet, not as the sole food.

Whatever route you choose, thaw and rinse any of the frozen products. You wouldn't believe the phosphates they leave in your tank otherwise.

Jeff

Allmost · 04/04/2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff@zina.com

I agree that the Hikari product is generally better than PE Mysis. But you can soak both in Selcon and get improvements. Or better, feed mysis as part of a varied diet, not as the sole food.
Jeff

can you explain how ? PE contains 2 times more proteins and fats and ...

it is dirty .... yes, but you have to rinse both under RO/DI water ... PE is much bigger as well,

this is another good source of mysis :
http://www.aquatreasures.ca/products.html

frozen mysis will not uptake any selcon when soaked. maybe some wwill get stuck to skin and will get washed off in water.. I used to inject each with selcon, but after injecting myself, I gave up with that lol

tmz · 04/04/2011, 12:22 PM

Personally, I use a variety of foods to feed the over 40 fish in my system. Many have been there since the system started 8 yrs ago.
A frozen mix thawed and rinsed of about 50% hikari mysis, 35% hikari brine. 15% hikari blood worms(mosquito larvae) and a small amount of frozen cylcopeeze is braodcast fed 2xs per day.
I also feed small amounts spirulina flake and Prime Reef flake and a nori clip with the am feeding every other day.

kmasonbx · 04/04/2011, 12:46 PM

Thanks a lot guys, I'll definitely adjust how I feed my fish. Also when you say rinse under RO/DI water do you do this with water you've already mixed with salt or just pure RO/DI?

Allmost · 04/04/2011, 12:56 PM

pure RO/DI.

I put a small piece frozen in a glass, fill it with RO/DI water, let it sit for 3 mins, then stir softly to not break the shrimp in half, and hten pure the water out.
if I have time, I fill up with RO/DI again and pure out to wash it more.

and then feed to tank ...

IMHO, varied diet works the best, but my seahorses only take Mysis, so it depends on who you are feeding as well

jeff@zina.com · 04/04/2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allmost

can you explain how ? PE contains 2 times more proteins and fats and ...

It's too big for most of my corals for one thing.

I've found the PE Mysis is a lot dirtier and never seems to rinse properly for me. The skimmer goes bonkers when it's fed. I'm also not convinced that the freshwater/saltwater issue that PE touts as making PE Mysis better is really a better deal. To my feeble mind, saltwater fish eat saltwater foods.

I've used both and have settled on Hikari being better for me. If someone chooses PE Mysis it doesn't bother me, I'm not on commission.

Jeff

jeff@zina.com · 04/04/2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmasonbx

Also when you say rinse under RO/DI water do you do this with water you've already mixed with salt or just pure RO/DI?

I thaw mine in RO/DI water and then pour the water down the sink. Might be less of a rinse and more of a soak, but the issue is usually in the water that frozen products produce when melted and that goes away with the soak/rinse.

This is for any frozen food, though I'm moving to the gel foods now where possible and not having any issues. Plus my wife doesn't complain about the fish food in the freezer.

tmz · 04/04/2011, 01:55 PM

IMHO, varied diet works the best, but my seahorses only take Mysis, so it depends on who you are feeding as well

yes, it does depend I feed a diverse population of fish. My seahorses which I raised from fry take a little brine but prefer the mysis and cyclopeeze. They do grab quite a few mospuito larvae(blood worms) too. i don't put any flakes or nori in their tank.

tmz · 04/04/2011, 02:02 PM

I thaw the frozen food in in tap water. Then I pour it through a brine shrimp net. Dump it into the container( I use a small plastic coffee can); add ro/di and feed with a turkey baster. I thaw enough for two days and keep it in the refrigerator between feedings.

I use chlorinated tap water as a bacterial control. This was recommended in an article in Coral Magazine several years ago by researchers who tested name brand frozen foods for vibrio bacteria via cultures and found significant amounts even in foods that had made it to the lab after being continuously frozen.

Allmost · 04/04/2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmz

IMHO, varied diet works the best, but my seahorses only take Mysis, so it depends on who you are feeding as well

yes, it does depend I feed a diverse population of fish. My seahorses which I raised from fry take a little brine but prefer the mysis and cyclopeeze. They do grab quite a few mospuito larvae(blood worms) too. i don't put any flakes or nori in their tank.

lol nice ... yea same here mine are 4th generation in my condo :P hahah

I tried to soak freeze dried mysis in selcon, and feed them those, I had some small success !! now I mix in some freeze dried food for them ! (this way I can get selcon soaked into it, and to the seahorse lol hopefully, one day, I will train them to only take that ...

obviously seahorses do not eat nori, so not sure why anyone would put that in the seahorse tank anyways .... LOL you shuld continue not putting it in.

Allmost · 04/04/2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff@zina.com

It's too big for most of my corals for one thing.

I've found the PE Mysis is a lot dirtier and never seems to rinse properly for me. The skimmer goes bonkers when it's fed. I'm also not convinced that the freshwater/saltwater issue that PE touts as making PE Mysis better is really a better deal. To my feeble mind, saltwater fish eat saltwater foods.

I've used both and have settled on Hikari being better for me. If someone chooses PE Mysis it doesn't bother me, I'm not on commission.

Jeff

oh nice, yes I agree, saltwater would be best food for saltwatr fish ... I breed SW mollies for my bigger fish :P

just asked cause I thought u may have some inside info

of course what ever works, and more fish eat hickari due to is size, you are 100% right.

reefsurfing · 04/04/2011, 02:16 PM

Hikari, simply stated, works better overall for my inhabitants. My phosphates seems to be lower compared to when I rinsed PE and I rarely rinse my hilkari since its extremely clean. Every fish in my tank can eat the hikari mysis while the PE seems to be too large.
To answer the OP's question I would have to pick the Mysis over brine If I could ONLY feed one or the other.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 04/04/2011, 03:08 PM

second, which Mysis ? PE mysis is the one with high nutritional value, hickari is next,

PE contains 2 times more proteins and fats and ...

What sort of data is that based on?

kmasonbx · 04/04/2011, 03:13 PM

When it comes to adding Selcon to food is there any brand that is specifically best or is this one of those things where you can't go too wrong with whatever you chose?

Allmost · 04/04/2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

second, which Mysis ? PE mysis is the one with high nutritional value, hickari is next,

PE contains 2 times more proteins and fats and ...

What sort of data is that based on?

nutritional values, written at the back of the package. which I will copy and paste into my next post for you now

( of course, there may be other brands sold around the world which I have never heard of

Im talking about what is available here, in Canada, toronto

)

Edit :
ok here it is :
PE :
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/fd...-+Flat%29.html
Crude Protein 69.5% Min., Crude Fat 8.35% Min., Crude Fiber 2.75% Max., Ash 5.5% Max.

hickari :
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/fd...-+Flat%29.html
Crude Protein 10.5% Min., Crude Fat 1.0% Min., Crude Fiber 2.0% Max., Moisture 85.0% Max.

PE is 19 bucks, hickari 11 !!

Allmost · 04/04/2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmasonbx

When it comes to adding Selcon to food is there any brand that is specifically best or is this one of those things where you can't go too wrong with whatever you chose?

selcon itself is a type of additive, pinkish in color.

The Velvet Sea · 04/04/2011, 03:24 PM

It is hard to compare the nutritional values of PE to Hikari because PE uses dry weights and Hikari uses wet weights. The PE has the moisture content removed which makes its values appear higher.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 04/04/2011, 03:30 PM

Yes, the difference looks like moisture to me. The PE one looks like a percentage of dry weight, not of what's there in total, so I don't see that has anything to do with nutritional value when compared to a wet basis mysis analysis. No living creature is 69.5% protein.

04/04/2011, 10:15 AM	#1
kmasonbx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 67	Mysis vs. Brine I read on here that Mysis is a much better food source than Brine because Brine doesn't have much nutritional value. I had bought some Brine a while ago and was feeding my fish that once or twice a week but upon reading the bad reviews for Brine from posters on this board I bought Mysis yesterday. However looking on the back of the packs of both I noticed the Brine has more protein than the Mysis and less moisture. The only things listed are protein, fat, fiber and moisture and no vitamins. Are there other reasons besides protein that make Mysis more beneficial than Brine?

04/04/2011, 10:19 AM	#2
DevilBoy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wooster, Ohio Posts: 1,724	the best mysis brand imo to use is the PE mysis . __________________ Bare Bottom 90g AGA RR. 2 AI Sol Blue LED Fixtures, SWC 160 cone skimmer. 2 MP40W ES Vortech pumps, 1 MP10W ES Votech pump, Digital Aquatics Reefkeeper Elite, Tunze 1073 internal return pump. 30g custom acrylic sump with refugium. Current Tank Info: 90g AGA RR, custom 30g sump

04/04/2011, 10:22 AM	#4
DevilBoy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wooster, Ohio Posts: 1,724	here is the PE mysis https://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.c...3&pcatid=19763 __________________ Bare Bottom 90g AGA RR. 2 AI Sol Blue LED Fixtures, SWC 160 cone skimmer. 2 MP40W ES Vortech pumps, 1 MP10W ES Votech pump, Digital Aquatics Reefkeeper Elite, Tunze 1073 internal return pump. 30g custom acrylic sump with refugium. Current Tank Info: 90g AGA RR, custom 30g sump

04/04/2011, 10:27 AM	#5
Nanz Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,389	I agree 100% with what "Almost" said. Having been a clownfish breeder and dwarf seahorse owner I can agree that even enriched brine is poor compared to mysis. I did have a problem with PE Mysis though. The Mysis is LARGER and my anthias would not eat it. I use Hikari mysis and have no problems. __________________ S.G. = 1.025, Temp = 78.5, pH = 8.00 Ca = 550 ppm, Alk = 176 ppm (9.85 dKH), Mg = 1300 ppm NO3 = 0.97 ppm, PO4 = 0.07 ppm Nuvo 30, Razor Nano LED, Tunze ATO, Tunze 9004 skimmer, Vortec mp10,

04/04/2011, 10:34 AM	#6
WienerDog Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Atlantic City, NJ Posts: 980	What about live mysis...I feed alot of live mysis. Are they more nutritional? __________________ "Winners do what they have to and losers do what they want" Phill 4:13 Current Tank Info: 5.5g Spec V Pico Reef

04/04/2011, 10:21 AM	#3
Allmost Moved On Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: canada, toronto Posts: 8,161	Hello, one thing to check for, is to see if both are dry analysis, or wet ! gotta compare similar analysis. second, which Mysis ? PE mysis is the one with high nutritional value, hickari is next, third, which brine ? was it enriched like Hickari ? enriched brine has higher value. Brine shrimp itself, compared to a Mysis shrimp has NO nutrition.

04/04/2011, 12:12 PM	#8
jeff@zina.com Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 3,345	Baby brine have plenty of nutrition, but after a day their egg sac is gone and they need to be fed. You can increase the nutrition with various HUFA supplements like Selcon. Mysis on the other hand often also has no nutrition. Natively it's slightly better, but the majority of mysis products use a freshwater mysis which is missing many of the food ingredients needed for saltwater organisms. Again, enrichment is the key. Some vendors enrich better than others. I agree that the Hikari product is generally better than PE Mysis. But you can soak both in Selcon and get improvements. Or better, feed mysis as part of a varied diet, not as the sole food. Whatever route you choose, thaw and rinse any of the frozen products. You wouldn't believe the phosphates they leave in your tank otherwise. Jeff

04/04/2011, 12:22 PM	#10
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Personally, I use a variety of foods to feed the over 40 fish in my system. Many have been there since the system started 8 yrs ago. A frozen mix thawed and rinsed of about 50% hikari mysis, 35% hikari brine. 15% hikari blood worms(mosquito larvae) and a small amount of frozen cylcopeeze is braodcast fed 2xs per day. I also feed small amounts spirulina flake and Prime Reef flake and a nori clip with the am feeding every other day. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

04/04/2011, 12:46 PM	#11
kmasonbx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 67	Thanks a lot guys, I'll definitely adjust how I feed my fish. Also when you say rinse under RO/DI water do you do this with water you've already mixed with salt or just pure RO/DI?

04/04/2011, 12:56 PM	#12
Allmost Moved On Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: canada, toronto Posts: 8,161	pure RO/DI. I put a small piece frozen in a glass, fill it with RO/DI water, let it sit for 3 mins, then stir softly to not break the shrimp in half, and hten pure the water out. if I have time, I fill up with RO/DI again and pure out to wash it more. and then feed to tank ... IMHO, varied diet works the best, but my seahorses only take Mysis, so it depends on who you are feeding as well

04/04/2011, 01:55 PM	#15
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	IMHO, varied diet works the best, but my seahorses only take Mysis, so it depends on who you are feeding as well yes, it does depend I feed a diverse population of fish. My seahorses which I raised from fry take a little brine but prefer the mysis and cyclopeeze. They do grab quite a few mospuito larvae(blood worms) too. i don't put any flakes or nori in their tank. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

04/04/2011, 02:02 PM	#16
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I thaw the frozen food in in tap water. Then I pour it through a brine shrimp net. Dump it into the container( I use a small plastic coffee can); add ro/di and feed with a turkey baster. I thaw enough for two days and keep it in the refrigerator between feedings. I use chlorinated tap water as a bacterial control. This was recommended in an article in Coral Magazine several years ago by researchers who tested name brand frozen foods for vibrio bacteria via cultures and found significant amounts even in foods that had made it to the lab after being continuously frozen. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

04/04/2011, 02:16 PM	#19
reefsurfing Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 499	Hikari, simply stated, works better overall for my inhabitants. My phosphates seems to be lower compared to when I rinsed PE and I rarely rinse my hilkari since its extremely clean. Every fish in my tank can eat the hikari mysis while the PE seems to be too large. To answer the OP's question I would have to pick the Mysis over brine If I could ONLY feed one or the other.

04/04/2011, 03:08 PM	#20
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	second, which Mysis ? PE mysis is the one with high nutritional value, hickari is next, PE contains 2 times more proteins and fats and ... What sort of data is that based on? __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

04/04/2011, 03:13 PM	#21
kmasonbx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 67	When it comes to adding Selcon to food is there any brand that is specifically best or is this one of those things where you can't go too wrong with whatever you chose?

04/04/2011, 03:24 PM	#24
The Velvet Sea Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 450	It is hard to compare the nutritional values of PE to Hikari because PE uses dry weights and Hikari uses wet weights. The PE has the moisture content removed which makes its values appear higher. __________________ Current Tank: 75 gallon mixed reef

04/04/2011, 03:30 PM	#25
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Yes, the difference looks like moisture to me. The PE one looks like a percentage of dry weight, not of what's there in total, so I don't see that has anything to do with nutritional value when compared to a wet basis mysis analysis. No living creature is 69.5% protein. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

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