Mag 9 return - two dead in three months, why?

jimrawr · 05/04/2011, 11:21 AM

So I set up my sump in February. Since then I have had two mag drive 9.5's stop working on me. They both lasted around a month and a half or so. Both of them were brand new. The first one stopped working and when I opened it up was extremely clean with no build up on it. I had it replaced by warranty, but still had to buy another to use in the meantime. My second one died on my in the middle of the night last night, and when I open this one it had a bit of build up on it, but not too crazy. I took a picture so you guys could see. Once I cleaned it a bit it started right up again.

Whats causing these pumps to die so fast on me? Is it possible with a ball valve that I have it dialed back too far that the pressure is destroying the pumps? I have the ball valve around 50% closed.

Here is the impeller after I started to clean it a bit.

Jim

tmc1313 · 05/04/2011, 12:44 PM

Is the ball valve before or after the intake? It should not be before or it will shorten the life of the pump. You said that after cleaning the 2nd pump it started back up. Is there some sand getting sucked up and jamming the impellar?

jimrawr · 05/04/2011, 01:03 PM

The ball valve is after the intake connected to the return line. I dont think there is any sand but I recently did a complete rock swap so there was a lot of debri floating around in the tank, total cloudiness. A lot of that has settled into the sump now.

lostanime · 05/04/2011, 01:51 PM

Are you dosing kalk etc near the pump intake?? Strainer on pump intake clogged/restricting flow?

I ran multiple mag12s for years without even cleaning them... Never gave me any trouble (outside of heat, danner/supreme makes some of the hottest temperature pumps I've ever used)

jimrawr · 05/04/2011, 02:46 PM

I dont dose kalk, just two part, and neither are dosed near the return pump. I do have a sponge on the inlet of the pump to prevent microbubbles

aquaman67 · 05/04/2011, 04:49 PM

That's weird.

I've got a Mag 9.5 running since 2005 and I've never cleaned it.

FishinMich · 05/04/2011, 04:57 PM

If your trying to reduce flow from the pump to the display replace the valve with a tee and then put the valve on the tee. open as far as needed to bleed off the some of the flow. I prefer gate valves for this.

jimrawr · 05/04/2011, 05:34 PM

Intersting never thought of that. Not sure that having a ball valve is the problem though, isn't running a valve pretty standard on these??

Useful_Idiot · 05/04/2011, 05:53 PM

fluval canister filters have a valve built in to slow and stop flow but the directions say you can't set it lower than 50%. I believe the motor will over heat if there's not enough flow around the magnet/impellar to cool it. the tee is a great idea. chances you got two bad pumps are slim.

sjm817 · 05/04/2011, 06:06 PM

How much do you have it dialed back?

sasharotty · 05/04/2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimrawr

I have the ball valve around 50% closed

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjm817

How much do you have it dialed back?

Why dont you get a mag 7 this time and let it go? Wasting alot of electricity and possibly this could be burning up the pumps.

jmoney · 05/04/2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquaman67

That's weird.

I've got a Mag 9.5 running since 2005 and I've never cleaned it.

same here, I have never touched it, only turned it off maybe 5-6 times, are you running your pump through a gfi strip?, take that foam cover off the front too, I had a mag 5 that always had problems with that thing on

sjm817 · 05/04/2011, 07:39 PM

I'm not a big fan of running too big a pump and throttling it way back or wasting electricity by bypassing flow back to the sump. A ball valve is fine for fine tuning but not major adjustments. Hard to say if the large reduction in flow is causing the pump to fail from the reduction in cooling flow. If you have to cut the flow back by 1/2 and dont have a use for the excess flow, maybe its time to try a different pump.

jimrawr · 05/04/2011, 09:46 PM

Yeah you guys may be right, I may try a smaller pump and see how long that lasts me

sjm817 · 05/04/2011, 09:50 PM

Do yourself a favor and get an Eheim 1260. Quiet, plenty of flow and what should interest you, very reliable. People have had these pumps running for many years.

jimrawr · 05/05/2011, 10:09 AM

How about an Eheim compact? I dont have room for the one you listed. The mag barely fits in that space

http://www.marinedepot.com/Eheim_Com...H11044-vi.html

zigzag1 · 05/05/2011, 10:31 AM

I find if I keep Ca targeted at 420ppm and not much higher, it tends to reduce precipitation on heaters and pump impellers. Also, precipitation increases with temperature which tends to cause build up in these areas. A more efficient (cooler running) pump may be just the ticket. GL!

sjm817 · 05/05/2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimrawr

How about an Eheim compact? I dont have room for the one you listed. The mag barely fits in that space

http://www.marinedepot.com/Eheim_Com...H11044-vi.html

That is a pretty tight space. I wonder if that has anything do do with the issue. Can you post a pic of the setup?

bnumair · 05/07/2011, 03:28 PM

strange. i got 6 mags from 9.5 to 18 running for 5 yrs now. some dialed down halfway. never cleaned them either.

shifty51008 · 05/07/2011, 03:36 PM

thats what I thought, my mag 9.5 has been running also for 5+ years turned half way down and only cleaned once when I was in between tanks.

dan-in-gr · 05/07/2011, 03:55 PM

Hi, I bought a Mag 7 and used it for a return with a ball valve, it did not like being turned down and crapped out with in 45 days. I use it for water make-up now. I will never buy one again, and wonder why I bought it, when I had a problem with one 3 years earlier. Shake, Rattle & Roll...sums up the Mag line.

jimrawr · 05/07/2011, 05:13 PM

What would you guys recommend thats around the same size as the mag 9.5? need around 700gph I guess of flow

shifty51008 · 05/07/2011, 06:00 PM

can you take a pic of the sump so we can see what were dealing with? may even find out the cause of the dead pumps

jimrawr · 05/07/2011, 06:12 PM

yeah here you go

sjm817 · 05/07/2011, 06:53 PM

Hard to say what is going on there. That is a really small return compartment. I assume there is an ATO. Has it ever run dry? Maybe the pump is getting really hot in there? How wide/long can the pump be? Here are a couple of small pumps. Dont really know too much about them.

Maxi-Jet Utility 3000, Eheim Compact+ 3000, Sicce Syncra 3.0 or 3.5. These small pumps dont seem to have the greatest head performance.

05/04/2011, 11:21 AM	#1
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	Mag 9 return - two dead in three months, why? So I set up my sump in February. Since then I have had two mag drive 9.5's stop working on me. They both lasted around a month and a half or so. Both of them were brand new. The first one stopped working and when I opened it up was extremely clean with no build up on it. I had it replaced by warranty, but still had to buy another to use in the meantime. My second one died on my in the middle of the night last night, and when I open this one it had a bit of build up on it, but not too crazy. I took a picture so you guys could see. Once I cleaned it a bit it started right up again. Whats causing these pumps to die so fast on me? Is it possible with a ball valve that I have it dialed back too far that the pressure is destroying the pumps? I have the ball valve around 50% closed. Here is the impeller after I started to clean it a bit. Jim __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/04/2011, 01:03 PM	#3
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	The ball valve is after the intake connected to the return line. I dont think there is any sand but I recently did a complete rock swap so there was a lot of debri floating around in the tank, total cloudiness. A lot of that has settled into the sump now. __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/04/2011, 01:51 PM	#4
lostanime Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 2,021	Are you dosing kalk etc near the pump intake?? Strainer on pump intake clogged/restricting flow? I ran multiple mag12s for years without even cleaning them... Never gave me any trouble (outside of heat, danner/supreme makes some of the hottest temperature pumps I've ever used) __________________ David Current Tank Info: 48"x48"x14" rimless 3/4" acrylic cube, 2x tunze 6105, apex, Aquamedic kalk, 2x400w Radiums, Deltec APF800 skimmer, ozotech posieden, MRC calcium reactor, BRS dual media, eheim 1260 return

05/04/2011, 02:46 PM	#5
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	I dont dose kalk, just two part, and neither are dosed near the return pump. I do have a sponge on the inlet of the pump to prevent microbubbles __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/04/2011, 05:34 PM	#8
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	Intersting never thought of that. Not sure that having a ball valve is the problem though, isn't running a valve pretty standard on these?? __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/04/2011, 12:44 PM	#2
tmc1313 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, Connecticut Posts: 1,530	Is the ball valve before or after the intake? It should not be before or it will shorten the life of the pump. You said that after cleaning the 2nd pump it started back up. Is there some sand getting sucked up and jamming the impellar?

05/04/2011, 04:49 PM	#6
aquaman67 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 7,629	That's weird. I've got a Mag 9.5 running since 2005 and I've never cleaned it.

05/04/2011, 04:57 PM	#7
FishinMich Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 6	If your trying to reduce flow from the pump to the display replace the valve with a tee and then put the valve on the tee. open as far as needed to bleed off the some of the flow. I prefer gate valves for this.

05/04/2011, 05:53 PM	#9
Useful_Idiot Artificially Intelligent Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Farmington, CT Posts: 1,188	fluval canister filters have a valve built in to slow and stop flow but the directions say you can't set it lower than 50%. I believe the motor will over heat if there's not enough flow around the magnet/impellar to cool it. the tee is a great idea. chances you got two bad pumps are slim.

05/04/2011, 06:06 PM	#10
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	How much do you have it dialed back? __________________ - Scott

05/04/2011, 07:39 PM	#13
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I'm not a big fan of running too big a pump and throttling it way back or wasting electricity by bypassing flow back to the sump. A ball valve is fine for fine tuning but not major adjustments. Hard to say if the large reduction in flow is causing the pump to fail from the reduction in cooling flow. If you have to cut the flow back by 1/2 and dont have a use for the excess flow, maybe its time to try a different pump. __________________ - Scott

05/04/2011, 09:46 PM	#14
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	Yeah you guys may be right, I may try a smaller pump and see how long that lasts me __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/04/2011, 09:50 PM	#15
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Do yourself a favor and get an Eheim 1260. Quiet, plenty of flow and what should interest you, very reliable. People have had these pumps running for many years. __________________ - Scott

05/05/2011, 10:09 AM	#16
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	How about an Eheim compact? I dont have room for the one you listed. The mag barely fits in that space http://www.marinedepot.com/Eheim_Com...H11044-vi.html __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/05/2011, 10:31 AM	#17
zigzag1 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Anderson, Indiana Posts: 1,276	I find if I keep Ca targeted at 420ppm and not much higher, it tends to reduce precipitation on heaters and pump impellers. Also, precipitation increases with temperature which tends to cause build up in these areas. A more efficient (cooler running) pump may be just the ticket. GL! __________________ :beer: Mixed Reef, started 10/2004: 6' BB 125g DT, 100lbs LR, 40g sump, Dual Ehiem 1000 returns, Eshopps dual overflow, JBJ ATO, Vertex IN-180, PM Ca reactor, 250w MH w/VHO Actinic, AC3 w/Aquasurf, Tunze 6105 pair & 40B frag tank 8 Fish, 20+ corals, shrimp, snails, worms, bugs, etc.

05/07/2011, 03:28 PM	#19
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	strange. i got 6 mags from 9.5 to 18 running for 5 yrs now. some dialed down halfway. never cleaned them either. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

05/07/2011, 03:36 PM	#20
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	thats what I thought, my mag 9.5 has been running also for 5+ years turned half way down and only cleaned once when I was in between tanks. __________________ 75 gal. mixed DT, 100 gal. sump, 50 gal. fuge, Clownfish breeder

05/07/2011, 03:55 PM	#21
dan-in-gr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 385	Hi, I bought a Mag 7 and used it for a return with a ball valve, it did not like being turned down and crapped out with in 45 days. I use it for water make-up now. I will never buy one again, and wonder why I bought it, when I had a problem with one 3 years earlier. Shake, Rattle & Roll...sums up the Mag line.

05/07/2011, 05:13 PM	#22
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	What would you guys recommend thats around the same size as the mag 9.5? need around 700gph I guess of flow __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/07/2011, 06:00 PM	#23
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	can you take a pic of the sump so we can see what were dealing with? may even find out the cause of the dead pumps __________________ 75 gal. mixed DT, 100 gal. sump, 50 gal. fuge, Clownfish breeder

05/07/2011, 06:12 PM	#24
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	yeah here you go __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

05/07/2011, 06:53 PM	#25
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Hard to say what is going on there. That is a really small return compartment. I assume there is an ATO. Has it ever run dry? Maybe the pump is getting really hot in there? How wide/long can the pump be? Here are a couple of small pumps. Dont really know too much about them. Maxi-Jet Utility 3000, Eheim Compact+ 3000, Sicce Syncra 3.0 or 3.5. These small pumps dont seem to have the greatest head performance. __________________ - Scott

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