BREAKING NEWS, LED Dimming Patent failed

[plankton99]

I heard thru the grapevine that the Patent held by Oribital Technologies preventing commecial lighting companines from dimming LED has been shot down. Orbital sued Solaris and they claimed that is why they went out of business. Aqua Illumination pays for the use of the technology (i beleive).

For details on the original patent issue, here is a link on glass box design:

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/orbi...ven-an-option/

This should significantly help our lighting options and bring costs down on LED lighting.

Has anyone else heard anything else about the failed patent.

[Anthony.Luciano]

Ive spoken to them personally because I wanted to start an LED manufacturing business and they told me that the lawsuit against solaris was a last resort because of a partnership/deal they were doing with them that failed. When I was going to start my business they gave me permission and I don't even have to pay royalties because they said they are doing everything they could to stay out of court and yes the patent is there but they don't pay much attention to it and wont do anything about it.

[amheck]

Tagging along. This should be an interesting conversation. I am surprised to hear they weren't pursuing the royalties, but maybe not that many people were asking. Hopefully this will open up the industry and lower some costs, although I bet we're a ways away from seeing the benefits.

[James77]

The patent should have never been issued in the first place. Hopefully this is true.

[NyReefNoob]

Ive spoken to them

too whom ?
and a company that has a patent isnt going to do a phone release, and even if they would say they would release you better get a written release,

[Anthony.Luciano]

I have a release through email from a manger there

Originally Posted by NyReefNoob

too whom ?
and a company that has a patent isnt going to do a phone release, and even if they would say they would release you better get a written release,

[Anthony.Luciano]

this is one of the quotes during the whole long conversation

"We would absolutely never consider a patent infringement suit against you. Our action against PFO Lighting was a last resort that came as a result of a partnership deal that fell through. Please don’t even remotely worry about it."

[username in use]

Originally Posted by Anthony.Luciano

I have a release through email from a manger there

Is that the one the baby Jesus was laid in?













Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Anthony.Luciano]

what does that mean?

Originally Posted by username in use

Is that the one the baby Jesus was laid in?













Sorry, couldn't resist.

[username in use]

He slept in a manger because there was no room at the inn

[Anthony.Luciano]

ohh lol i didn't realize my typo haha.

Originally Posted by username in use

He slept in a manger because there was no room at the inn

[snorvich]

I would not put a whole lot of credibility in this thread. There is a reason that LEDs are not sold out of the USA except for AI which pays royalties.

[Anthony.Luciano]

Well maybe it's out of fear of big companies being sued because in my conversation with them it basically sounded like they don't care if people do it or not, the patent is just there to make sure they have the ownership of the idea and they are not looking forward to suing anyone or even bothering with anyone. they even told me they are not accepting royalties for this patent and not to worry about making the LEDs because they will not file a lawsuit.

Originally Posted by snorvich

I would not put a whole lot of credibility in this thread. There is a reason that LEDs are not sold out of the USA except for AI which pays royalties.

[Anthony.Luciano]

also I don't even think AI is paying royalties because they are not infringing the patent. this representative said that for it to infringe everything has to be in 1 enclosure including the controller. AI LEDs have a controller connected by a wire. I asked about having the drivers separate from the actual LEDs and they said it will not infringe the patent because there is now 2 enclosures instead of everything being in 1.

[ed102475]

Anthony.Luciano = what does that mean?
=============================

Originally Posted by username in use

He slept in a manger because there was no room at the inn

Good times , Good times .

[snorvich]

Patent infringement is the commission of a prohibited act with respect to a patented invention without permission from the patent holder. Permission may typically be granted in the form of a license which is normally supported by payment of royalties. Aqua Illumination is currently licensed under the existing Orbitech (Oribital Technologies) patent. The definition of patent infringement may vary by jurisdiction, but it typically includes using or selling the patented invention. In many countries, a use is required to be commercial (or to have a commercial purpose) to constitute patent infringement.[citation needed]

The scope of the patented invention or the extent of protection is defined in the claims of the granted patent. In other words, the terms of the claims inform the public of what is not allowed without the permission of the patent holder.

Patents are territorial, and infringement is only possible in a country where a patent is in force. For example, if a patent is filed in the United States, then anyone in the United States is prohibited from making, using, selling or importing the patented item, while people in other countries may be free to make the patented item in their country. They can also sell in a country outside the patent granting jurisdiction. Many brands we see on this forum are sold out of Canada for this very reason. The scope of protection may vary from country to country, because the patent is examined by the patent office in each country or region and may have some difference of patent-ability, so that a granted patent is difficult to enforce worldwide.

Before anyone makes decisions based on the assertions of a 15 year old, you might consult with someone knowledgeable in patent law. As far as building for sale, it is best to consult a lawyer and have any and all allowances in writing.

Just my opinion.

[Anthony.Luciano]

What does it matter if I'm 15 if I've spoken to them and giving you first hand information off of what they told me. not just definitions of infringement this is information that I have from Orbitec themselves.

Originally Posted by snorvich

Patent infringement is the commission of a prohibited act with respect to a patented invention without permission from the patent holder. Permission may typically be granted in the form of a license which is normally supported by payment of royalties. Aqua Illumination is currently licensed under the existing Orbitech (Oribital Technologies) patent. The definition of patent infringement may vary by jurisdiction, but it typically includes using or selling the patented invention. In many countries, a use is required to be commercial (or to have a commercial purpose) to constitute patent infringement.[citation needed]

The scope of the patented invention or the extent of protection is defined in the claims of the granted patent. In other words, the terms of the claims inform the public of what is not allowed without the permission of the patent holder.

Patents are territorial, and infringement is only possible in a country where a patent is in force. For example, if a patent is filed in the United States, then anyone in the United States is prohibited from making, using, selling or importing the patented item, while people in other countries may be free to make the patented item in their country. They can also sell in a country outside the patent granting jurisdiction. Many brands we see on this forum are sold out of Canada for this very reason. The scope of protection may vary from country to country, because the patent is examined by the patent office in each country or region and may have some difference of patent-ability, so that a granted patent is difficult to enforce worldwide.

Before anyone makes decisions based on the assertions of a 15 year old, you might consult with someone knowledgeable in patent law. As far as building for sale, it is best to consult a lawyer and have any and all allowances in writing.

Just my opinion.

[killarsox]

It would matter if you were 15 because the "contract" that gave you permission to build LED's would be invalid since your a minor.
No offense but sounds like a bunch of hoopla to me....
So you have special permission from a manager?
I'm not sure a manager would even have authority to grant you such a right.
Are you the same guy that was emailing everyone from NY reef forums about LED lighting about a year and a half ago?

[Anthony.Luciano]

well no I'm not that same guy that was emailing everyone the first LEDs I built were only about 7 months ago. and If I have in writing from an email saying that they do not penalize for their patent infringement and the last and only time they ever did was a partnership deal that fell through and it was a last resort. and for all anyone knows I could have been with my dad when I was talking to them. plus the person must have a high position in the company if the name comes up on google before i finish typing it with orbitec next to it. and a description saying manger of research and development or something like that. and to everyone else. i didnt come here to start arguing about this I'm just telling you exactly what they told me. again one of the quotes during the convo "We would absolutely never consider a patent infringement suit against you. Our action against PFO Lighting was a last resort that came as a result of a partnership deal that fell through. Please don’t even remotely worry about it."
another quote
"I can tell you that we are doing everything in our power to never go to court again."
and even if they did give me a release or "contract" they said I wouldn't be infringing it because it doesn't have a dimming controller built into the housing the controller for the ones I was planning on making were going to be an apex or reefkeeper so it would just plug into that so they told me if it doesn't have a controller built in, it doesn't infringe the patent. so basically I have nothing to worry about even if it isnt a clear release.

Originally Posted by killarsox

It would matter if you were 15 because the "contract" that gave you permission to build LED's would be invalid since your a minor.
No offense but sounds like a bunch of hoopla to me....
So you have special permission from a manager?
I'm not sure a manager would even have authority to grant you such a right.
Are you the same guy that was emailing everyone from NY reef forums about LED lighting about a year and a half ago?

[Glo]

this is from last year http://************.com/2010/06/04/o...wn-reexamined/

[the droob]

Anthony.Luciano I think that Killarsox is just trying to warn you that a managers email means nothing if the CEO of the company (and/or board of directors) decides to pursue a patent infringement,I hope your LED business goes well but in my experience I would try to get something in writing from the company just to be sure, Its good to see a young fella having a go

[Anthony.Luciano]

Thanks. I know I would worry about it more if I took it further but for a small company the aluminum supplier wants to charge me like over $200 just for the cases so i thought that was ridiculous and just stuck with the custom LED lighting builds and DIY LED supply and free consulting and stuff for now. This was a big manager not like an email manager I spoke to like one of the head people there in charge of everything Im not that stupid as to get a response from an email and talk through there I took the extra steps to make sure I was speaking to someone with authority there. and I'm still thinking of it now just day by day of how to get the design better to make minimal aluminum case cost and I'm not even worried about it anyway because a light without a controller is not under the claims of the patent and the orbitech representative told me that the patent is not being infringed unless it has a controller built in. so as long as I keep my original idea as to make the fixture just plug directly into an apex or reefkeeper or sell potiometers that plug in externally I'm not infringing the patent no matter what. anyway I really don't think I'm going to go forth with the commercial manufacturing of the LEDs just stick with what I said before but hopefully I can think of a better design and go with that.

Originally Posted by the droob

Anthony.Luciano I think that Killarsox is just trying to warn you that a managers email means nothing if the CEO of the company (and/or board of directors) decides to pursue a patent infringement,I hope your LED business goes well but in my experience I would try to get something in writing from the company just to be sure, Its good to see a young fella having a go

[ModAquatics]

Hello All,

This is my first post! I too am in the process of manufacturing LED lighting for aquariums. So I also researched patents for possible infringement. And, I am not 15 but an elderly 48 (but I feel much older). What Anthony has been saying is accurate. I went through the same process as he did except I spoke to one of the named patent holders and was told that our design did not infringe upon the patent (and I have an email from the same person).

Here is somer other points to consider.

Everyone makes Orbitec look like the bad guy. The fact is that they had a patent and a partnership with PFO. All of the "Bad Guy" press originated from PFO. Orbitec could have publicly slammed PFO but they chose to be professional. In my opinion PFO was wrong and Orbitec was just defending their intellectual property. I also think that any of us would do the same.

The Orbitec patent issue is very, very small when you consider that Philips has over 300 patents concerning LED lighting. Again, all of the attention was brought to them because of the lawsuit.

Anyone getting into LED lighting will be paying Philips and/or Cree and/or Osram (and perhaps a few others) royalties or they risk an infringement.

I hope this clears up some mis-information about Orbitec.

Oh yeah, once I have the LED product ready to sell, I will become a sponsor. Then I can share all of the details, price, etc.

[AQD_ottawa]

Take it from someone in regular contact with Orbitec for various reasons.

The patent stands and it was further enhanced on the 4th February this year, it was also recently re-passed after lengthy re-assessment.

What Orbitec as a very diligent company will do however is look at your design and tell you if it infringes or not, they are not going to hand out licenses to those that dont.

The ones that do however is a different story.

For non disclosure reasons I can not go into any further details, but the Patent stands as of 2 days ago, but I will be forwarding this thread to them for direct comment.

[kenjung]

Yep that's classic, the people holding the patent will lay low. Once you make good money watch out.