HELP Sump Plumbing Rookie

fishyman12 · 07/01/2011, 08:07 AM

Hi all! I am in need of some drastic help with plumbing my sump. I have a 46 gallon bowfront DT with a 30 gallon sump. My bulkhead is 1 inch and I have a Quiet One 3000 pump. How do I adjust the pump to have the same flow as the bulkhead that pulls the water down? Also, how do I safe proof my sump? Where do i put holes in the return line? Thank you very much!!

bdr · 07/01/2011, 08:22 AM

Well the bulkhead should only drain what the return pump pushes up into the dt. Yoyu can put a gate valve on the outlet of the pump to control flow. And the siphon break goes just below the water line on the return in the dt just be sure to check it once a week to be sure it is clear.

Tin_Whistler · 07/01/2011, 08:23 AM

Holes in your return line should go just below the standing surface level of the water. That’ll keep it from getting sprayed out all over the place, and allow minimal drainage during a power outage.

To slow down the flow you’ll need to get a valve. Similar to how a kitchen sink works when you turn it up it will flow faster, when you close it the water will flow slower.

J2T · 07/01/2011, 09:43 AM

Ideally you want the holes just below the surface though I have mine just above. But I drilled them facing down so it goes right into the water and not up into the lights

Tmoriarty · 07/01/2011, 01:46 PM

Im kinda a noob my self, but i would not reccomend a gate valve, while the others are correct you can properly adjust your flow with them the problem is it is much harder on the pump forcing it to reduce its output. I read this on multiple sites including this one, its better to get a pump that through head loss pumps less then your maximum overflow.

For example the tank i setup has a 500gph pump, I also have a 300gph overflow box. I have had it running for 3 weeks and have had no overflow problems and no problems running my pump compartment out of water.

If you have to put a gate valve you can your pump may just not last quite as long. Also as for the siphon hole, what i did is added a checkvalve (caues slightly increased head pressure slowing my max gph from the pump) but the checkvalve automatically stops flow back to the sump, in case it fails I also have a siphon hole, but the reduncy helps guarantee no overflows in your sump. Again just two cents from a noob.

Tyler

stewartms · 07/01/2011, 04:27 PM

Install a T in the return line and put a ball valve on the T, then run from there back to your sump. As you open the valve, it will redirect the water to the sump. This will reduce the amount of return flow while keeping backpressure on the pump to a minimum. The extra flow could be used later for reactors or other uses.

jamesbaur13 · 07/01/2011, 05:24 PM

I'm a noobie also.

Not sure if others missed on this or if my info is incorrect, but the quietone 3000 has an output of 780gph. I dunno the length of the pipe providing the return flow, but without looking it up and assuming it is in the sump under the stand it'd probably be around 100gph less (just taking a stab in the dark) 680gph.

Also, from my readings, a 1 inch drain will yield a max 600gph. If this is a kit which came with the aquarium it may not yield the max.

Basically, from the info I am looking at, it yields the potential to A) overflow the display tank because their is a greater amount of water coming in than going out, or B) (which is more likely) deplete your sump so you will be sucking in a lot of air and risk your return pump burning up.

I would like someone with more experience to verify/negate what I am seeing.

If what I am thinking is correct you will require the T valve like the others have been suggesting, it would be a bad option to choose not to have one as I have described above.

Paco · 07/01/2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishyman12

My bulkhead is 1 inch and I have a Quiet One 3000 pump. How do I adjust the pump to have the same flow as the bulkhead that pulls the water down?

You don't need to. The overflow will only flow as much water as is pushed by the pump -- it's simple physics.

Paco · 07/01/2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesbaur13

I'm a noobie also.

Not sure if others missed on this or if my info is incorrect, but the quietone 3000 has an output of 780gph. I dunno the length of the pipe providing the return flow, but without looking it up and assuming it is in the sump under the stand it'd probably be around 100gph less (just taking a stab in the dark) 680gph.

Also, from my readings, a 1 inch drain will yield a max 600gph. If this is a kit which came with the aquarium it may not yield the max.

Basically, from the info I am looking at, it yields the potential to A) overflow the display tank because their is a greater amount of water coming in than going out, or B) (which is more likely) deplete your sump so you will be sucking in a lot of air and risk your return pump burning up.

I would like someone with more experience to verify/negate what I am seeing.

If what I am thinking is correct you will require the T valve like the others have been suggesting, it would be a bad option to choose not to have one as I have described above.

You are over thinking it. Unless a pump is massively over-sized neither of those things will happen.

Paco · 07/01/2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmoriarty

Im kinda a noob my self, but i would not reccomend a gate valve, while the others are correct you can properly adjust your flow with them the problem is it is much harder on the pump forcing it to reduce its output. I read this on multiple sites including this one, its better to get a pump that through head loss pumps less then your maximum overflow.

Sorry, not true. Pumps run better when throttled back as long as it's not throttled to zero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmoriarty

If you have to put a gate valve you can your pump may just not last quite as long. Also as for the siphon hole, what i did is added a checkvalve (caues slightly increased head pressure slowing my max gph from the pump) but the checkvalve automatically stops flow back to the sump, in case it fails I also have a siphon hole, but the reduncy helps guarantee no overflows in your sump. Again just two cents from a noob.

Tyler

Wrong again -- a check valve is a failure waiting to happen. The way that you can guarantee that you won't flood your sump is to properly size your sump to handle the maximum amount of water that could potentially drain from your tank when your circulation pump is off. Any other choice will eventually fail. Remember to include everything that drains back when your circulation pump is off plus the volume of water in your overflow(s) because they will likely eventually run into the sump if your pump is off long enough.

Definitely good to have a siphon break and make sure you keep it clean but sizing your sump is the critical matter.

jamesbaur13 · 07/01/2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paco

Unless a pump is massively over-sized neither of those things will happen.

Did you read the entire post? It hit on a couple of points. Is the GPH the overflows can handle under estimated or is the pump volume over estimated?

I heard him saying "how do I safe proof my sump"... that inclines me to believe he doesn't want to chance a flood.

ginger7286 · 07/02/2011, 09:17 AM

check the archives here in RC I believe somewhere there is a chart of pump GPH vs. head loos per foot, very handy. Check that. My return line holes are in the elbow of the PVC just above the water line. If you haven't, install a true union check value on your return pump, that ensure no over flow of your sump in the case of a power outage.

07/01/2011, 08:07 AM	#1
fishyman12 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 122	HELP Sump Plumbing Rookie Hi all! I am in need of some drastic help with plumbing my sump. I have a 46 gallon bowfront DT with a 30 gallon sump. My bulkhead is 1 inch and I have a Quiet One 3000 pump. How do I adjust the pump to have the same flow as the bulkhead that pulls the water down? Also, how do I safe proof my sump? Where do i put holes in the return line? Thank you very much!! __________________ FISH ARE FRIENDS, NOT FOOD Current Tank Info: 46 Bowfront Reef Tank 30 Gallon Sump

07/02/2011, 09:17 AM	#12
ginger7286 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Worth, Florida Posts: 728	check the archives here in RC I believe somewhere there is a chart of pump GPH vs. head loos per foot, very handy. Check that. My return line holes are in the elbow of the PVC just above the water line. If you haven't, install a true union check value on your return pump, that ensure no over flow of your sump in the case of a power outage. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting "Holy crap...what a ride!" Current Tank Info: 125 Reef Tank, Precision Marine equipment with a live rock/sand filtration. 30G. Nano with 2 percs and a beautiful little Flaming Prawn Goby.

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07/01/2011, 08:22 AM	#2
bdr Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: kingston ontario Posts: 375	Well the bulkhead should only drain what the return pump pushes up into the dt. Yoyu can put a gate valve on the outlet of the pump to control flow. And the siphon break goes just below the water line on the return in the dt just be sure to check it once a week to be sure it is clear.

07/01/2011, 08:23 AM	#3
Tin_Whistler Mayor of Podunk Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 263	Holes in your return line should go just below the standing surface level of the water. That’ll keep it from getting sprayed out all over the place, and allow minimal drainage during a power outage. To slow down the flow you’ll need to get a valve. Similar to how a kitchen sink works when you turn it up it will flow faster, when you close it the water will flow slower.

07/01/2011, 09:43 AM	#4
J2T Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 952	Ideally you want the holes just below the surface though I have mine just above. But I drilled them facing down so it goes right into the water and not up into the lights

07/01/2011, 01:46 PM	#5
Tmoriarty Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Visalia, Ca Posts: 1,040	Im kinda a noob my self, but i would not reccomend a gate valve, while the others are correct you can properly adjust your flow with them the problem is it is much harder on the pump forcing it to reduce its output. I read this on multiple sites including this one, its better to get a pump that through head loss pumps less then your maximum overflow. For example the tank i setup has a 500gph pump, I also have a 300gph overflow box. I have had it running for 3 weeks and have had no overflow problems and no problems running my pump compartment out of water. If you have to put a gate valve you can your pump may just not last quite as long. Also as for the siphon hole, what i did is added a checkvalve (caues slightly increased head pressure slowing my max gph from the pump) but the checkvalve automatically stops flow back to the sump, in case it fails I also have a siphon hole, but the reduncy helps guarantee no overflows in your sump. Again just two cents from a noob. Tyler

07/01/2011, 04:27 PM	#6
stewartms Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Jacksonville Florida / Bay Area California Posts: 110	Install a T in the return line and put a ball valve on the T, then run from there back to your sump. As you open the valve, it will redirect the water to the sump. This will reduce the amount of return flow while keeping backpressure on the pump to a minimum. The extra flow could be used later for reactors or other uses.

07/01/2011, 05:24 PM	#7
jamesbaur13 Apsiring Alhcohlolic Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 772	I'm a noobie also. Not sure if others missed on this or if my info is incorrect, but the quietone 3000 has an output of 780gph. I dunno the length of the pipe providing the return flow, but without looking it up and assuming it is in the sump under the stand it'd probably be around 100gph less (just taking a stab in the dark) 680gph. Also, from my readings, a 1 inch drain will yield a max 600gph. If this is a kit which came with the aquarium it may not yield the max. Basically, from the info I am looking at, it yields the potential to A) overflow the display tank because their is a greater amount of water coming in than going out, or B) (which is more likely) deplete your sump so you will be sucking in a lot of air and risk your return pump burning up. I would like someone with more experience to verify/negate what I am seeing. If what I am thinking is correct you will require the T valve like the others have been suggesting, it would be a bad option to choose not to have one as I have described above.