ICH and my sad life.

[msaleem]

well, lets start with this. if you guys remember recently where i posted up why my tang was acting weird, and most of you guys were saying to "make sure that you QT that fish before anything" and i was so sure that the fish store did that prior to me getting the fish.
well guess whos got ich in his brand new tank.. fml.
ok so a couple of things i can do, since i did go to petco and bought a 20 gallon tank as well as a HOB filter.

1. would be it better if i actually kept my fish in the tank but with hypo salinity. i has some snails in the tank but would they survive the hypo salinity? since i know corals will NOT, im not sure if snails and hermit crabs will or not.

2. actually set up my qt with the same water as my DP and drop the fish in there for a month or so or however long? use kick-ich instead of copper?

3. call it a day and just give up with salt water. only because it would be my third tank in my house and i was planing on transferring my fish from my 35 gallon tank, and now that has for wait a month or so..

please reply quickly since my the ich is on its "cycle" and i see none of it on the tang. also im a newbie

[James404]

Snails will not live through hypo and kick ich doesn't cure crypt. If you want to deal with it your options are:

A) Copper
B) Hyposalinity
C) Tank Transfer Method

A must read for all newbies:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626

[msaleem]

yea ive read the sticky and those are the three methods. ive also read that i should keep my tank free of fish for 4 months.. that sounds kinda crazy no?

[JoeRonda]

I'm gonna give you my advice, soak your fish's food in garlic xtreme or garlic guard. I have both and garlic xtreme seems to be the most potent. Parasites don't like garlic, so I would directly dose the infected fish (soak his food for at least 3min prior to feeding him) and also dose some directly into the water. Sorry to hear about your bad luck, ...Ich sucks! P.S. don't think that your Tang's fate is sealed, I brought my Blue Hippo Tang back from Ich with soaking his food, and I kept my SG normal.

[msaleem]

Originally Posted by JoeRonda

I'm gonna give you my advice, soak your fishes food in garlic xtreme or garlic guard. I have both and garlic xtreme seems to be the most potent. Parasites don't like garlic, so I would directly dose the infected fish (soak his food for at least 3min prior to feeding him) and also dose some directly into the water. Sorry to hear about your bad luck, ...Ich sucks! P.S. don't think that your Tang's fate is sealed, I brought my Blue Hippo Tang back from Ich with soaking his food, and I kept my SG normal.

yes, i have been doing that since yesterday. i actually use garlic guard by seachem. is that any good? i also dont want the ich coming and going every other week when my fish get stressed.

[JoeRonda]

Garlic Guard is good, I have it, but Garlic Xtreme by Kent is way more concentrated. It's pricey, but if you need it quick Petco has it however you will pay for the conveniece of getting it in the store it's like $19. I like to soak with Garlic Xtreme and dump Garlic Guard in the tank when I see something coming, but that's just me.

[Todd_Sails]

I got what I think was Ich in my DT.

My brand new CB angel was covered. I put it in my QT- 5 gallon bucket, and tried Ich X.
I think that's what it was called. He died after the second dose.

I had lost several other fish by then, a Yellow Tang, and 2 firetail gobies.

My Orbiculate cardinal had it took and stayed in my DT.
My large blue hippo tand also got it- so I put him in my QT- 5 gallon bucket-this time with Cupramine, for almost 2 weeks. I just had to get him back in the DT though, for fear he would die also.
I figured that if they got sick again, I'd go fallow for 8 wks.

My Blue hippo is doing great back in the DT!!
My cardinal seems better too.
I'm not getting anymore wild life for at leasst 4 more weeks.
I'm still tweaking a new DIY sump, etc.

FWIW

[msaleem]

Originally Posted by Todd_Sails

I got what I think was Ich in my DT.

My brand new CB angel was covered. I put it in my QT- 5 gallon bucket, and tried Ich X.
I think that's what it was called. He died after the second dose.

I had lost several other fish by then, a Yellow Tang, and 2 firetail gobies.

My Orbiculate cardinal had it took and stayed in my DT.
My large blue hippo tand also got it- so I put him in my QT- 5 gallon bucket-this time with Cupramine, for almost 2 weeks. I just had to get him back in the DT though, for fear he would die also.
I figured that if they got sick again, I'd go fallow for 8 wks.

My Blue hippo is doing great back in the DT!!
My cardinal seems better too.
I'm not getting anymore wild life for at leasst 4 more weeks.
I'm still tweaking a new DIY sump, etc.

FWIW

did you every find out what the issue was with if it wasn't ICH?




ALSO, does anyone know if kick-ich and any good? ive heard mixed reviews and its coral safe.. right?

[JoeRonda]

Yeah, Blue Hippo Tangs are tough. I'm not suprised he pulled through, alot of them show white spots and don't even have Ich. They just exhibit sign of "Ich" due to extreme stress.

[Kappapibeta]

Dose the fish and what worked for me is directly dosing the tank. You can drip liquid garlic or throw in a pinch of minced garlic. Tank will smell, but I have found that the most effective.

[ezhoops]

WOW, I am a little shocked that no one else has chimed in here but Garlic has no proof of being an effective cure for crypto. The 3 methods mentioned by james are the only proven effective methods of treatment. The best thing to do is bite the bullet and do 1 of those 3 things instead of purchasing things that "might"work for some. You will save money, livestock, and patients. Also, 8 weeks is plenty for your tank to go fallow not 4 months.

[JoeRonda]

I was waiting for that. LOL.
I believe parasites can't live in the same water as garlic. But that is just me, and I am not a Marine Biologist.

[lagatbezan]

Feeding garlic will boost the fish immune system but will do nothing to the ich itself and sooner or later you will have a major outbreak on your hand. If you want to make sure you eradicated it from your system, put ur fish in a qt, treat them with copper or hypo and leave your DT fishless for 8 weeks. Also make sure to fully quarenteene any newly acquired fish regardless of who/where you get them from. I personally use cupramine copper which I feel is easier to do/control then hypo. If you do hypo make sure to add water constantly to keep the sg at 1.009 due to evaporation as well as keep an eye on your ph which tends to drop drastically. Don't give up. This hobby takes lots of patience and time. Do it right, do it once = enjoy it.

[Crazy fish eye]

Do not buy any chemicals that say they are reef safe. They are not and will kill your coral. They have formaldehyde in them and that is not reef safe to me.

[msaleem]

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

Feeding garlic will boost the fish immune system but will do nothing to the ich itself and sooner or later you will have a major outbreak on your hand. If you want to make sure you eradicated it from your system, put ur fish in a qt, treat them with copper or hypo and leave your DT fishless for 8 weeks. Also make sure to fully quarenteene any newly acquired fish regardless of who/where you get them from. I personally use cupramine copper which I feel is easier to do/control then hypo. If you do hypo make sure to add water constantly to keep the sg at 1.009 due to evaporation as well as keep an eye on your ph which tends to drop drastically. Don't give up. This hobby takes lots of patience and time. Do it right, do it once = enjoy it.

i dont know if this is the smartest idea or not but would it be possible if i took the snails out by hand and started hypo salinity in the main tank? or would that just be stupid and asking for a problem?

[rtb388]

Don't be so quick to treat... There are so many other things and I think the rushed treatments is what kills the fish rather than the potential ich... especially if your not 100% positive ( which is difficult)

I would get a few skunk cleaner shrimp (they clean parasites off fish), soak food in garlic, make sure water parameters are healthy, and maybe try some Dr. G's medicated food for parasitic infections...


I had a recent ich suspicion and did exactly what I recommended and no spots now... cant hurt to try it

[Todd_Sails]

msaleem,

Not quite sure what it was, kiiled several fish thou, even one I put in my bucket-QT, but didn't treat with copper, I tried the Ich-X; it's formalin.

JOe Rhonda,

Totally agree, but I did loose several fish. NOw my Blue tang is happy again, treated with cupramine for about 12 days in a bucket, with a little sponge filter, etc.

ezhoops,
Totally agree.

rtb388,
NOt so fast on the skunk cleaner. I have a rather large Skunk cleaner, that always latches on to the fish, etc. I've read research that autopsies found no cryto in their bellies. While they do help some, they mostly eat decaying tissue, some parasites, etc.
My Blue Tang, (abour 7 inch) was really sick. this is after several fish died.
He didn't rid him then. He can't cure a serous infestation, while I do think he helps- marginally though.
FWIW

[lagatbezan]

Originally Posted by msaleem

i dont know if this is the smartest idea or not but would it be possible if i took the snails out by hand and started hypo salinity in the main tank? or would that just be stupid and asking for a problem?

you can do that but it will end up killing all the live rock and all the living life in your sand bed. this can also lead to another cycle in the tank.
thats why its best to perform hypo or any treatment in a dedicated qt.

[JoeRonda]

I wasn't trying to lead anybody wrong, just sharing my ideas on alternate methods of getting/keeping fish healthy. I will not use any chemicals or "cure-all" products. Maybe I was just lucky, but I've cured (or maybe it was a coincidence they recovered) fish a few times now for 10+years in the aquaria hobby and I attribute it to boosting the fishes immune system by using garlic. JMO.

[Chris27]

The poo piling up in this thread is getting deep and I'm finding myself having to pull up my pants.....

Cleaner shrimp will not rid of fish of parasites....sure they will address some of them....but they can't get at them all, particularly the ones buried deep in the gill tissue. If it were that easy for a cool little shrimp to get to all the parasites, then a freshwater or copper dip would be a cure....which it isn't.

Garlic is not a medication, it's not a treatment method, it's not even proven to be an immune booster. It is however great when saute'd up with some olive oil or roasted up in the oven. It's particularly good when used in a meatball. That said, it's a flavor enhancer, it tastes good, so we eat it. The same goes for a fish, you soak their food in garlic, and they are more likely to eat it, and after all, a healthy fish is a well eating fish.

Reef Safe meds don't work, lump them all up, they all have some goofy name which hides the fact that they are snake oil. Here is a list of some of them, KickIch, Rid Ich, Ich Attack and Ich X....guess what, they all have Ich in the name, and guess what else, Ich is short for Ichthyophthirius, a freshwater parasite that can not live in saltwater. That's why we put salt in our FW tanks during outbreaks. Plainly put, none of the above mentioned products have any effect on Cryptocaryon irritans....aka Marine Ich.

Somewhere up there, copper, hypo-salinity, and the tank transfer method were mentioned......those are three surefire ways to eradicate the parasite. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some folks to accept. Sure there is more then one way to skin I cat.....and three ways were listed.

[Uncle Salty 05]

What kind of tang do you have?
Is it eating and healthy?
You best choice may be to keep all parameters in the optimal range and keep your fingers crossed. Maybe a 3-5 minute freshwater bath for initial knock off from the fish and then let it be.
I have seen healthy fish beat ich many times.

[mess7777]

I am of the belief that the 3 methods(copper, hypo, and tank transfer) are the only way to rid your tank of ich completely.

I did hypo and screwed it up(added things to the DT during the 8 weeks) so it was really for nothing.

Going 8 weeks requires a load of patience and resistance to the urge to add some corals or inverts during that time.

Now I am stuck clinging to witchcraft cures hoping that it remains manageable and doesn't kill everything in the tank.

Whatever treatment method you decide, do it right.

[Todd_Sails]

Originally Posted by Chris27

The poo piling up in this thread is getting deep and I'm finding myself having to pull up my pants.....

Cleaner shrimp will not rid of fish of parasites....sure they will address some of them....but they can't get at them all, particularly the ones buried deep in the gill tissue. If it were that easy for a cool little shrimp to get to all the parasites, then a freshwater or copper dip would be a cure....which it isn't.

Garlic is not a medication, it's not a treatment method, it's not even proven to be an immune booster. It is however great when saute'd up with some olive oil or roasted up in the oven. It's particularly good when used in a meatball. That said, it's a flavor enhancer, it tastes good, so we eat it. The same goes for a fish, you soak their food in garlic, and they are more likely to eat it, and after all, a healthy fish is a well eating fish.

Reef Safe meds don't work, lump them all up, they all have some goofy name which hides the fact that they are snake oil. Here is a list of some of them, KickIch, Rid Ich, Ich Attack and Ich X....guess what, they all have Ich in the name, and guess what else, Ich is short for Ichthyophthirius, a freshwater parasite that can not live in saltwater. That's why we put salt in our FW tanks during outbreaks. Plainly put, none of the above mentioned products have any effect on Cryptocaryon irritans....aka Marine Ich.

Somewhere up there, copper, hypo-salinity, and the tank transfer method were mentioned......those are three surefire ways to eradicate the parasite. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some folks to accept. Sure there is more then one way to skin I cat.....and three ways were listed.

After quite a bit of research on this and other subjects,

Right on Chris, this post should be one of the stickys!

[Todd_Sails]

Pics of my Blue Hippo taken today. In the DT, after about 12 days of Cupramine in a bucket, etc. I know they recommend longer, but I was afraid he was going to 'kick' off in the bucket.

I'm still waiting to see if anything shows up again.

Sorry a little blurry, he wouldn't hold still (I asked him to), and it's my I-phone.

[boombox3]

I would highly recommend Microbe-Lifts Herbtana. Used in my display tank (RBTA, XENIA, INVERTEBRATES, RICORDIAS, ZOAS). After the 10 day treatment I did another 2 days just in case and luckily saved all my fish with the addition of garlic extract liquid to their food. Look into this product I recommend it. I am planning to use this medication on any new fish i get and place in quarantine.