GEN-X Mark 4 pump break down

007Bond · 08/04/2011, 12:59 PM

Help, I took my pump apart, no problem. I had some smoke where the wires enter the case and I need to remove the windings to get at the wires to the windings. Anyone know if the windings are pressed into the casing? I can not get them out. I have looked all over the web and cannot find any break down info. Thank You in advance for any input.

BeanAnimal · 08/04/2011, 01:13 PM

Smoke means heat... smoke coming from the windings likely means an insulation breakdown due resulting in a short or partial short. To be honest, I would not bother moving any further with diagnosis or rebuild, just replace the pump.

007Bond · 08/04/2011, 01:38 PM

I'm from the old school if it can be fixed, I don't throw it away. I'm a electrician by trade, if someone can tell me how I can get the winding out of the casing I can most likely repair it.

BeanAnimal · 08/04/2011, 02:06 PM

Respectfully, old school or not, being an electrician and testing an electric motor have nothing in common but the word "electric".

Your motor smoked. Your motor has no brushes so we can't look to glazing as a cause. The field (windings) are wound tightly by machine to avoid vibration and irregular megnetic flux, so re-winding them by hand is not really an option. WHile the smoke may not have been due to a failure, the heat that caused the smoke (melting shelac on the magnet wire) likely did do damange. If the motor shaft turns freely and here is still smoke, the windings are cooked. If the shaft is hard to turn, there are many reasons that may point to other damage, but the smoke still likeluy indicates cooked windings.

Taking the motor apart is not an initial step in the test procedure, reading the resistance of the windings is. You can certainly test for a dead short with a multimeter, but short of (no pun) a dead short, you need a megger to reliably test the windings and insulation. This is all done without ripping the motor apart. If the windings fail the megger test, then the motor needs rewound (again not something you are going to be able to do on the bench).

To answer your question, the windings are likely pressed into the housing, if not set in place with adhesive. This (again) is usually done in order to prevent vibration and to ensure predictable operation.

007Bond · 08/04/2011, 02:22 PM

Bean, thank you for your input. I ck. ohms on the hot and neutral leads, it is not shorted. I feel the problem is at the point of connection, if I could get to the back I'll be able to see the issue. Where lies my problem, removing the windings. May be its junk, just wanted to know if anyone has ever removed the windings from the case.

BeanAnimal · 08/04/2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007Bond

Bean, thank you for your input. I ck. ohms on the hot and neutral leads, it is not shorted. I feel the problem is at the point of connection, if I could get to the back I'll be able to see the issue. Where lies my problem, removing the windings. May be its junk, just wanted to know if anyone has ever removed the windings from the case.

Put the thing in the freezer for a few hours and then remove it. The outer shell will heat up (or you can heat it up quickly in a 300 degree oven). This may be enough to contract the field windings and iron and expand the shell enough to pull the windings free.

If you don't want to wait for the freezer, just toss it in a 400 or so degree oven for just a few minutes. The outer shell will heat, but not have time to heat the core... same result. Don't leave it long enough to melt anything

If they are potted in with epoxy or glue, then there is not much you can do...

007Bond · 08/04/2011, 03:15 PM

Bean, I'll try, looks like it was so called pressed in. like it was just pushed into the casing and not meant to come back out without a fight. there is no access from the other side where I could tap it out.

08/04/2011, 12:59 PM	#1
007Bond Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sylvania,Ohio Posts: 1,925	GEN-X Mark 4 pump break down Help, I took my pump apart, no problem. I had some smoke where the wires enter the case and I need to remove the windings to get at the wires to the windings. Anyone know if the windings are pressed into the casing? I can not get them out. I have looked all over the web and cannot find any break down info. Thank You in advance for any input.

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08/04/2011, 01:13 PM	#2
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Smoke means heat... smoke coming from the windings likely means an insulation breakdown due resulting in a short or partial short. To be honest, I would not bother moving any further with diagnosis or rebuild, just replace the pump.

08/04/2011, 01:38 PM	#3
007Bond Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sylvania,Ohio Posts: 1,925	I'm from the old school if it can be fixed, I don't throw it away. I'm a electrician by trade, if someone can tell me how I can get the winding out of the casing I can most likely repair it.

08/04/2011, 02:06 PM	#4
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Respectfully, old school or not, being an electrician and testing an electric motor have nothing in common but the word "electric". Your motor smoked. Your motor has no brushes so we can't look to glazing as a cause. The field (windings) are wound tightly by machine to avoid vibration and irregular megnetic flux, so re-winding them by hand is not really an option. WHile the smoke may not have been due to a failure, the heat that caused the smoke (melting shelac on the magnet wire) likely did do damange. If the motor shaft turns freely and here is still smoke, the windings are cooked. If the shaft is hard to turn, there are many reasons that may point to other damage, but the smoke still likeluy indicates cooked windings. Taking the motor apart is not an initial step in the test procedure, reading the resistance of the windings is. You can certainly test for a dead short with a multimeter, but short of (no pun) a dead short, you need a megger to reliably test the windings and insulation. This is all done without ripping the motor apart. If the windings fail the megger test, then the motor needs rewound (again not something you are going to be able to do on the bench). To answer your question, the windings are likely pressed into the housing, if not set in place with adhesive. This (again) is usually done in order to prevent vibration and to ensure predictable operation.

08/04/2011, 02:22 PM	#5
007Bond Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sylvania,Ohio Posts: 1,925	Bean, thank you for your input. I ck. ohms on the hot and neutral leads, it is not shorted. I feel the problem is at the point of connection, if I could get to the back I'll be able to see the issue. Where lies my problem, removing the windings. May be its junk, just wanted to know if anyone has ever removed the windings from the case.

08/04/2011, 03:15 PM	#7
007Bond Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sylvania,Ohio Posts: 1,925	Bean, I'll try, looks like it was so called pressed in. like it was just pushed into the casing and not meant to come back out without a fight. there is no access from the other side where I could tap it out.