Herbie or Durso?

[pmrossetti]

Let's discuss pluses and minuses of these and

which you prefer and why?

thanks

left out Beananimal cause it needs 3 holes, but you can include if you want.

[autodave]

I use a BeanAnimal,and will not do another tank without it,so I would opt for the Herbie.

[rtparty]

Herbie is the best I have ever used. Make sure the main drain has a strainer on it and just clean it every so often. I think the BeanAnimal is a little overboard and redundant.

I tried to flood my basement on purpose to test out the Herbie style overflow and could never get it to happen. With my main drain completely "clogged" the backup handled the flow with no issues. To clog my main drain I just closed the gate valve all the way. I even put an empty snail shell on top of the emergency drain to play with that idea. The emergency drain had some issues at that point but still did its job just fine.

Since I ALWAYS run a cover on my overflows, no snail or fish was ever getting back there to mess with things and algae never grows on all my pipes to clog them.

I love the Herbie overflow and would never even think about another type of drain system on my tank. You do need a good gate valve though. Ball valves won't cut it.

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by rtparty

Herbie is the best I have ever used. Make sure the main drain has a strainer on it and just clean it every so often. I think the BeanAnimal is a little overboard and redundant.

I tried to flood my basement on purpose to test out the Herbie style overflow and could never get it to happen. With my main drain completely "clogged" the backup handled the flow with no issues. To clog my main drain I just closed the gate valve all the way. I even put an empty snail shell on top of the emergency drain to play with that idea. The emergency drain had some issues at that point but still did its job just fine.

Since I ALWAYS run a cover on my overflows, no snail or fish was ever getting back there to mess with things and algae never grows on all my pipes to clog them.

I love the Herbie overflow and would never even think about another type of drain system on my tank. You do need a good gate valve though. Ball valves won't cut it.

X2... I have used the Durso, Hofer Gurgle Buster, and now Herbie. None are silent like the Herbie.

I use a ball valve though, no problems setting up the full siphon on the main drain. The second drain is slightly higher than the main drain, and due to it being wide open, I will know when the main is clogged, but that won't happen. I also run "screens" around my drains to prevent anything from getting in there. Here is what I am talking about -

[pk-sd]

Herbie with a gate valve.....

[mc-cro]

I have been using a Herbie with a gate valve for many years with a basement sump.
I tried the durso on a basement sump with high turn over, but found it is not even an option. the micro bubbles and flushing are just insane.

The only issue I have ever had with the Herbie is the start up. when you run an extremely long drain across the basement to the sump, it can take some time for the full siphon to start in either of the drains. During this first minute or so, I have had a very minor overflow of the main tank once or twice over the years. To be clear, this is not an issue with the herbie itself, just a side effect of having an extremely long drain(about 15ft horizontal).

In my new tank, I am going with the bean animal. It has an external overflow, so I have the ability to use 3 drain lines, although I am setting up the first 2 as a herbie, and the 3rd line as the emergency drain during the start up.

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by mc-cro

I have been using a Herbie with a gate valve for many years with a basement sump.
I tried the durso on a basement sump with high turn over, but found it is not even an option. the micro bubbles and flushing are just insane.

The only issue I have ever had with the Herbie is the start up. when you run an extremely long drain across the basement to the sump, it can take some time for the full siphon to start in either of the drains. During this first minute or so, I have had a very minor overflow of the main tank once or twice over the years. To be clear, this is not an issue with the herbie itself, just a side effect of having an extremely long drain(about 15ft horizontal).

In my new tank, I am going with the bean animal. It has an external overflow, so I have the ability to use 3 drain lines, although I am setting up the first 2 as a herbie, and the 3rd line as the emergency drain during the start up.

Doesnt your second line work for you until the siphon affect takes place on the primary? It does for me.

[mc-cro]

when I had a short run, yes, it worked just fine. but when I moved the sump to the other side of the basement, it was always a race to see if the second line could keep up with the flow while the main drain created a full siphon.

[solitude127]

Herbie for me. I have to adjust a little more often because I use a sock. Once the sock starts to clog, then some water starts going down my emergency drain. If planned properly, you'll never have a flodding problem

[Snausy]

I just tested out my new Herbie on my 300 gallon in the garage the other day. My wife came out and said "When are you going to turn it on to test it?" LOL That says it all.

The sump water-surface was completely still. It almost looked like standing water but if you look close enough there is a very slight ripple. Otherwise you would never know there is a pump running 900gph through it. I set mine up so the emergency overflow was just a slight bit below the waterlevel coming through the slots and then I set the water-level right up near the top so it's absolutely silent.

I couldn't be happier with my decision. I too closed the gates all the way to test how the emergency drains handled it and it was no problem.

[The Punisher]

I use the Herbie style, but I think the BeanAnimal is definitely the way to go if you have the ability to have 3 holes. I've not had any problems at all with the Herbie and think it's about as reliable as you can get but if I had my dream tank it would definitely include a BeanAnimal style overflow. You never can be too careful and I like the idea of having the extra protection of the BeanAnimal.
And I will run a durso on another tank, they just aren't worth the hassle to me.

[pmrossetti]

yeah,i don't know why, but i'm still leary of the siphon thing.

just paranoia?

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by pmrossetti

yeah,i don't know why, but i'm still leary of the siphon thing.

just paranoia?

I feel ya on that. I saw and was pretty leary to begin with. I was even more leary because the tank I was setting up to use it was on the top floor of my house right above the kitchen. If 60 gallons of water decided to not stay in the tank, I would have caused some big $$$$$$ in damages.

I set the entire tank up with rock and sand in my basement first and tested the plumbing for over 3 weeks. I came up with every possible way to make my system fail and couldn't. I mean if I completely clogged both pipes then it would fail, but the chances of that ever happening were almost none. I took too many other precautions and it worked out great.

The last thing I ever worried about was my drain on my tank. I went on multiple 2-3 day vacations and never worried about a flood. I worried more about electricity and corals dying than a flood.

[TheFishMan65]

I mean if I completely clogged both pipes then it would fail

Just for the record this can be solved by limiting the amount of water that can be pumped back into the tank. If the sump has no water to pump it can't over flow - of course you may damage your pump.

It may not be possible to limit the water enough in all cases. 15 feet of pipe across the basement could hold an awful lot of water

Just one more thing to consider.

[Juicer69]

I use the Herbie with ball valves. Absolutely SILENT!!!

[wildman926]

There are three overflows we try to avoid -

1. Sump
2. Tank
3. Skimmer

1. I ensure my level is low enough, as well as having holes in the return line just below the surface of the water in the tank, in the event the pump fails and water flows back down to the sump. The holes break the siphon.

2. I use a pump stopper kit that I built and modified from Aquahub.com. I use a larger box and cord grip, 95db siren, and a secondary float in the sump, in the event the float switch in the tank fails. It has a reset switch that must be pressed before the pump is restarted. It WILL wake you in the middle of the night.

3. I use the Coralvue Octopus waste collector with built in overflow protection. There is a float switch built in, that shuts off power to the pump if the container gets too full. You could build one cheaper using their pump stopper and any container, but their waste collector is very nice.

Here are pics of them -

[Drae]

. I didn't like the siphon idea at first, now I couldn't go without one! 1" full siphon, 1.5" emergency ( been needed before too! Works like a charm) shout out to HERBIE

[das75]

originally set up my current tank with duel Dursos and though near silent at the display the noise in the lines to the basement sump and gurgling in the sump itself were always a annoyance.

Switched to a Herbie and totally happy. Only noise now anywhere in the system is from the water going over the lip of the overflow (and since I run the water level high in the chamber it's basically nothing).

[sushibug]

How did you reach equillibrium with a HOB overflow? I thought this was not possible for Herbie or Bean Animal setups... I tried and the silence was awesome sauce but the sump water level never stayed the same. BTW I have a dual HOB overflow with two u tubes.

Originally Posted by wildman926

X2... I have used the Durso, Hofer Gurgle Buster, and now Herbie. None are silent like the Herbie.

I use a ball valve though, no problems setting up the full siphon on the main drain. The second drain is slightly higher than the main drain, and due to it being wide open, I will know when the main is clogged, but that won't happen. I also run "screens" around my drains to prevent anything from getting in there. Here is what I am talking about -

[TheFishMan65]

They probably have an ATO that keeps the sump steady, but we shall wait to hear.

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by sushibug

How did you reach equillibrium with a HOB overflow? I thought this was not possible for Herbie or Bean Animal setups... I tried and the silence was awesome sauce but the sump water level never stayed the same. BTW I have a dual HOB overflow with two u tubes.

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

They probably have an ATO that keeps the sump steady, but we shall wait to hear.

Yes, I do run an ATO. If you notice in the last picture of my post above, there is an Eshopps float valve. That is for my ATO. The container is next to the stand.

You have to ensure that you do not have a pump that over runs the siphon of the first drain. I am maxed at this with my Eheim 1262, 3/4" return line, 5' of head. It restarts everytime. When the pump is stopped, the second drain will also be used until the siphon effect takes place. Works like a charm.

An ATO should be the very next thing someone sets up after their wet/dry or fuge, sump, etc. There are too many advantages in having them, both in operation, water chemistry, and affects to the animals in the tanks (i.e. stable water).

Here is my container to the left of these dated pics. It is an Eclipse 6 tank only, on a self made wooden stand, and a 1/4" John Guest valve plumbed into the side (gotta use super glue gel, then silicone to seal).

[tegee]

I've been a Durso guy forever and I am in the process of setting up a new 60gl Cube and want to look into a Herbie setup.

Can someone point me in the direction of what a Herbie really is and how it is plumbed, etc. Pics would help to. I am very mechanically inclined and very handy with plumbing, so I just need some guidance and I can run from there.

I am not a big fan of the BeanAnimal for the simply fact it require too many drilled holes in a custom aquarium as well as I ton of PVC pipe and fittings. Might work great, but can not justify the overkill approach....imho of course.

Many thanks for any help......

[das75]

tegee, think this drawing fr rban shows the idea for a Herbie rather well. My only change is a gate valve gives better control than a ball and the backup drain could be left dry also nothing wrong with the main drain coming into the sump from the top.

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by das75

tegee, think this drawing fr rban shows the idea for a Herbie rather well. My only change is a gate valve gives better control than a ball and the backup drain could be left dry also nothing wrong with the main drain coming into the sump from the top.

The only problem with this setup is, that the secondary drain is not =/> the full siphon. It needs to be the same diameter or greater than the full siphon. With it wide open, and the main drain with full siphon clogs, it needs to handle the complete overflow. It needs to be wide open, to make that god aweful noise that we are trying to get rid of in the first place, to alert you that the main overflow has failed.

Running screens around the drains helps to avoid the failure, like in my pic above.

[tegee]

Ok...so the picture is getting clearer. So with the Herbie you have two drain pipes of equal size with the main drain install with a ball/gate valve. The main drain is "fully" submerged and the secondary drain is "right at" the top of pool and/or water high at normal operating level.

Some of the benefits are: backup protection in case one of the drain fails and less noise from draining? Does this sound correct? Also, does it really quiet down the tank that much? As mentioned, I have run three tanks now over the past 8 years in the hobby and all had or have Durso standpipes. I really never noticed any major noise issues. maybe because I am so used o it I guess.

Does anyone have some nice install pics to share on an internal or external overflow box? I just had my tank drilled from the bottom with only two holes, so if I do decide to go Herbie I will simply have to run the return on the outside rear of the tank and use one of those fancy elbows to get the water back in, etc.

Many thx for the replies so far.....and great info