OK, THE BIG 4, pluses and minuses, let's list them.

[pmrossetti]

VERTEX ILLUMINA 260
pluses---looks, great spread, dimming, dusk/dawn, moon cycles, 400w mh =
minuses---tank mountable?, built in programmer-what if it goes out?

AI
pluses---has everything program wise. 400w mh strong.
minuses---looks, very low tank mount

MAXSPECT P
pluses---looks, good tank mount, good programming,adjustable angle modules, 250w mh=
minuse---no moon cycle, controller blanks out with power outages.

RADION
pluses---looks, programming, color,spread, 250w mh=
minuses---bad mounting options offered, no tank mount, no hanging options given except cables for each unit, too many cables needed for multiple units, no moon cycle, dawn/dusk?

My pet peeve is mfrs that put out fixtures without well thought out mounting options. Buyers shouldn't have to jump thru hoops to mount such expensive lights. So extra kudos to MAXSPECT.

That's a start. Please chime in with what I left out. thanks

[rtparty]

Unfortunately, your pro's and cons are just that, YOURS.

I wouldn't even look at Vertex because of price. The Mazarra is decent but I don't want a Chinese fixture, sorry. The AI's really don't look that good and their spectrum is terrible. They are half the price because they offer half the spectrum. AI's inability to use neutral whites shows me that they aren't that competent at the whole LED game.

My biggest issue with a lot of these LED companies is that NONE of them do their own research from what I can tell. They go through the DIY section and see what people are trying out. Then they put that into their fixture and put together some nice marketing and sell it. Cool White LED's should NOT be the source of white lighting over our tanks. They make the tank look like crap IMO.

Tank mounting options? I don't care to ever mount a fixture to my tank again. They get in the way and you have to constantly move them to get into the tank. With LEDs this is changing but I would rather hang a fixture myself.

The Radion has full programming capabilities. It can be ramped up and down for your dusk/dawn. I don't care about lunar cycles either. They are just another gimmick to up the price. I personally don't want my corals spawning. It makes a huge mess in the end.

For me Radion is the only fixture I would buy. I really like Ecoxotic's line up and use them over both my tanks. If I were setting up a new tank I would look hard at the Ecotech and Ecoxotic. The rest don't interest me for a second.

[Lyfsux]

You forgot the best one IMHO..

Orphek Power Reef PR156

[pmrossetti]

rt,
i think your opinions are much more opinionated than what i listed

people should have mounting options

Radion programming was a question. And for 750 it should have EVERYTHING.

Yes, Vertex is expensive.

respectfully yours

[BonsaiNut]

I am personally worried about Radion's decision to overdrive their white LED's. There are already questions about LED lifetimes and lumen maintenance, and people are wondering if LED's will live up to the hype. The one thing that everyone seems to agree on is that heat is BAD for LED's. Overdriving LED's for long periods of time puts a lot of emphasis on whatever cooling technology they will be using.

[ksc]

I think your mh comparison is a little off. You would probably need 4 AI units to match the par and spread of a quality MH setup. I would never buy one of these little spot light fixtures, this is where the manufacturers have dropped the ball.

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by ksc

I think your mh comparison is a little off. You would probably need 4 AI units to match the par and spread of a quality MH setup. I would never buy one of these little spot light fixtures, this is where the manufacturers have dropped the ball.

i think they match the par. maybe 2 needed for spread?

[gcarroll]

Combining everyone elses comments with mine:

VERTEX ILLUMINA 260
pluses---looks, great spread, dimming, dusk/dawn, moon cycles, 400w mh = (find that claim hard to believe without optics while others with optics are rated as comparable to 250 watt)
minuses---tank mountable?, built in programmer-what if it goes out?, price, product support outside US

AI
pluses---has everything program wise. 400w mh strong (AI has always compared it to 250w MH not 400w), few reported problems, company has an excellent reputation, US company
minuses---looks, very low tank mount, terrible spectrum (although not sure if rtparty was referring to the Sol spectrum, the Nano or the Phoenix or all)

MAXSPECT P
pluses---looks, good tank mount, good programming,adjustable angle modules, 250w mh=, 3 sets of interchangeable optics included, company has a good reputation, easy upgradability for future LEDs as well as changing LEDs, LEDs sold separately, US support
minuses---no moon cycle, controller blanks out with power outages, built in China

RADION
pluses---looks, programming, color,spread, 250w mh=, full programmability including dusk to dawn, full spectrum, reputation for good customer support, US support, US company
minuses---bad mounting options offered, no tank mount, no hanging options given except cables for each unit, too many cables needed for multiple units, no moon cycle, fan location may become problematic

ECOXOTIC
pluses---several products, modular, add on upgradable options., custom color modules, full spectrum RGB, US company, US support, built for the masses not the high end hobbyist
minuses---lacking programmability/controllability, built for the masses not the high end hobbyist

ORPHEK
pluses---24" fixture, several products, violet LEDs, available in wide and narrow angle models for penetration or spread, good looking, few reported problems, US support, simple straight forward design
minuses---dated design, lacking controllability, huge powersupply (almost same size as fixture), optics are a much more narrow angle than every other companies optics), unconfirmed LED origin, made in China

[pmrossetti]

good input, thanks

[SteveValle]

Very good info everyone. I have to agree with RTPARTY, I agree that ecoxotic is my choice when it comes to LED's. Big fan of that company and they have some killer fixtures and offer great customer service.

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by SteveValle

Very good info everyone. I have to agree with RTPARTY, I agree that ecoxotic is my choice when it comes to LED's. Big fan of that company and they have some killer fixtures and offer great customer service.

what killer fixtures?

[TheFishMan65]

BonsaiNut, I am not sure that the Radion's are over driving as much as just using the upper limits. XP-G can run at 1.5 amps which is a about 3.5 volts so 1.5 * 3.5 is 5.25 watts. that is the only one I recall is there another that you think is over driven? If they can keep them cool then there should not be a problem. My worry is that they don't have as good heat management as thy think.

[Luwe2008]

So far, I believe that Maxspect-P has the best fixture. The only problem is that they're built in the US. and I don't know how their customer support is?

[BonsaiNut]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

BonsaiNut, I am not sure that the Radion's are over driving as much as just using the upper limits. XP-G can run at 1.5 amps which is a about 3.5 volts so 1.5 * 3.5 is 5.25 watts. that is the only one I recall is there another that you think is over driven? If they can keep them cool then there should not be a problem. My worry is that they don't have as good heat management as thy think.

Yes perhaps I misstated what I was thinking. They are driving their white LED's at the upper end of operating range. All other reef LED manufacturers who use these LED's (that I am aware of) drive them at 3 watts. Driving them at 5 watts makes them brighter, but less efficient and generates more heat. Heat + LED = bad They state something along the lines of "their new design makes them confident" that they can run the LED's at this higher wattage, but I am curious if they are willing to guarantee lumen maintenance?

[TheFishMan65]

Ok, you and I are thinking along the same lines - just wondering if I had missed something.

[LStorm]

Ecoxotic is working on an update fixture which will include some of there recent module offerings.

http://************.com/2011/09/09/p...ture-ecoxotic/

Their modularity and ease of customization is a plus for me.

[Sizzle]

I use ecoxotic, love them great price different mounting options, stand mounts, wall mounts or hanging mounts. Only down side is dusk to dawn, however i just run stunner actinic strips problem solved for me. Also like that I can change my spectrum whenever needed for my tank.

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by Sizzle

I use ecoxotic, love them great price different mounting options, stand mounts, wall mounts or hanging mounts. Only down side is dusk to dawn, however i just run stunner actinic strips problem solved for me. Also like that I can change my spectrum whenever needed for my tank.

they're really cool.
will they reach 24" depth?

[Bellagio]

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

Yes perhaps I misstated what I was thinking. They are driving their white LED's at the upper end of operating range. All other reef LED manufacturers who use these LED's (that I am aware of) drive them at 3 watts. Driving them at 5 watts makes them brighter, but less efficient and generates more heat. Heat + LED = bad They state something along the lines of "their new design makes them confident" that they can run the LED's at this higher wattage, but I am curious if they are willing to guarantee lumen maintenance?

Not ALL - you are wrong. You should precise - all which are using XPG/XPE leds.
In fact - driving XPG at 5W and using one single fan for cooling that - is like russian ruolette

There are few manufacturers - like Maxspect or Pacific Sun which are using Cree XM-L leds(which can operate up to 10W) on smaller currents - and it is safe - for led long life - and for customer which have to pay for not cheap fixtures..

I think that most problematic in Radion lamp will be this one, small fan. I dont heard anything about overheating protection - what happens with LEDs if the fan stop working? LEDs will be fried ..

There should be listed also:

Ecolamp - popular in the USA, strong light beam - with additional actinic strips
Pacific Sun - a specially their XM series(with Cree XM-L and XT-E) - full spectrum also - like Radion
Thortek - very good and price/power factor userfriendly..

[ari5736]

Originally Posted by rtparty

Unfortunately, your pro's and cons are just that, YOURS.

I wouldn't even look at Vertex because of price. The Mazarra is decent but I don't want a Chinese fixture, sorry. The AI's really don't look that good and their spectrum is terrible. They are half the price because they offer half the spectrum. AI's inability to use neutral whites shows me that they aren't that competent at the whole LED game.

My biggest issue with a lot of these LED companies is that NONE of them do their own research from what I can tell. They go through the DIY section and see what people are trying out. Then they put that into their fixture and put together some nice marketing and sell it. Cool White LED's should NOT be the source of white lighting over our tanks. They make the tank look like crap IMO.

Tank mounting options? I don't care to ever mount a fixture to my tank again. They get in the way and you have to constantly move them to get into the tank. With LEDs this is changing but I would rather hang a fixture myself.

The Radion has full programming capabilities. It can be ramped up and down for your dusk/dawn. I don't care about lunar cycles either. They are just another gimmick to up the price. I personally don't want my corals spawning. It makes a huge mess in the end.

For me Radion is the only fixture I would buy. I really like Ecoxotic's line up and use them over both my tanks. If I were setting up a new tank I would look hard at the Ecotech and Ecoxotic. The rest don't interest me for a second.

I own SOLs and comletely agree with this assessment from what I have seen out there.

However, I would Reeftech, which I have seen in person and are awesome, albeit expensive.

[BonsaiNut]

Originally Posted by Bellagio

Not ALL - you are wrong. You should precise - all which are using XPG/XPE leds.

I thought I WAS being precise when I said "all who are using these LED's". To be specific - I am referring to CREE XP-G Cool White LED's that Radion is using as their white light source. Radion has 8 of them and they are driving them at 5 watts.

[Bellagio]

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

I thought I WAS being precise when I said "all who are using these LED's". To be specific - I am referring to CREE XP-G Cool White LED's that Radion is using as their white light source. Radion has 8 of them and they are driving them at 5 watts.

Yeah, now I see that - it was misunderstanding from my side, Im sorry
As I see - we are on the same way - LEDs shoudnt work on 100% - without any safe margin - a specially, than if you will compare XPG working on 5W - and working on 3.3W(1A) - it is only about 20% diffrence in lumens(total - not from 1W)
Its completly not needed - and unsafe for our pocket.

[SteveValle]

Originally Posted by pmrossetti

what killer fixtures?

All of them. IMO I have not seen a bad setup from Ecoxotic. They cater to the nano's and also the big tanks. Just go and take a look at them to form your own opinion on the fixtures themselves. IMO they are some of the nicest around. Plus I like supporting US companies.

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by SteveValle

All of them. IMO I have not seen a bad setup from Ecoxotic. They cater to the nano's and also the big tanks. Just go and take a look at them to form your own opinion on the fixtures themselves. IMO they are some of the nicest around. Plus I like supporting US companies.

the panorama? yes, nice. and they've thought thru the mounting, yea

but pricey and no programmability

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by SteveValle

All of them. IMO I have not seen a bad setup from Ecoxotic. They cater to the nano's and also the big tanks. Just go and take a look at them to form your own opinion on the fixtures themselves. IMO they are some of the nicest around. Plus I like supporting US companies.

sorry dp