LiveAquaria order question...HELP!

blennielove · 09/16/2011, 10:14 PM

Hello all at RC,

I'm not sure where to post this so if it's in the wrong place...

I recently joined the tens of thousands who order fish from LiveAquaria.

I ordered 7 fish and two of them were out of stock, so my five fishes came. They arrived great by FedEx and I was home to receive them and start their acclimation process immediately in a darkened room. I chose to do the Floating Method as described on LA's acclimation guide. I did this because my fish room temp was 68 degrees and dripping them would cause the temperature to drop after initial adjustment of temperature by floating the bag in the tank. After doing 1/2 cup water every 4 minutes until full bag x 2, lasting an hour, I was ready to place the fishes into THREE quarantine tanks that have been set up for MONTHS. These are essentially mini reef tanks with live sand/rocks, copepods, little stars, bristle worms, and all.

Upon quick examination of the first specimen, Sleeper Banded Goby, I noted a fairly large gash on his side about 3/4 down his body. I placed him in his own quarantine as I was afraid that what ever that gash is, may spread. He was found dead the next morning.

Second specimen, a gorgeous Vrolik's wrasse. I thought he looked a little big for the bag he was in but he looked pretty good. He and specimen three (Red streaked wrasse) went into a 20 long quarantine tank as they looked the healthiest and are to be placed in the same display. The Vrolik's came out to eat that evening, but died the next afternoon. The Red Streaked wrasse died today, which is day number four (I received them Monday). The Red Streaked came out to eat the evening of the second day, did not come out for two days and found dead today.

The fourth specimen, a little Hoeven's or Melanurus, had a wound near the side of her head noted on day two when she came out - I acclimated in near darkness and she went into the sand immediately after release. She died sometime on day three.

The fifth and last is the little algae blennie. He is doing very well, doing some general cleaning for the quarantine tank. Today, he ate some frozen ON formula 2 from a little fork. It was adorable.

LA has handled this beautifully. I e-mailed them and they responded and credited me for the price of the fish. They offered advise when I was pretty distrought and we talked on the phone. We discussed what I did and they thought that I pretty much did things right...

I read here of everyone's wonderful experience with LA...
They have the fishes that I would like to keep...
My questions are:
Do I repeat the order?
Do I give up and ask them to credit my card?
What happens if the repeat order dies again?
What should I do?

I'm sure you are wondering this by now...
Tank parameters:
Temp 80
Salinity 1.025
pH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0

All three tanks have been running fallow for more than 6 months. They are all teaming with copepods and all sorts of sea creatures and I do monthly water changes on them with fresh salt water. I've been planning this purchase for a LONG time...

Some of you may remember on another thread I shared my poor success rate with wrasses... maybe I'm just jinxed!

Thanks for any feedback!

BlennieLove...maybe I should change it to WrasseKiller!

bmw325i · 09/17/2011, 01:14 AM

LA usually sells top notch fish especially if you ordered it from the divers den. Id say give it another shot.

Ron Reefman · 09/17/2011, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blennielove

I read here of everyone's wonderful experience with LA...
They have the fishes that I would like to keep...
My questions are:
Do I repeat the order?
Do I give up and ask them to credit my card?
What happens if the repeat order dies again?
What should I do?

Have you tried asking these questions of the people at Live Aquaria? Ask them how they will handle another big screw up like the first one. If they are OK with it, I'd do it. All in all they have a pretty good reputation.

Lynnmw1208 · 09/17/2011, 07:06 AM

I had a similar issue like you where my fish died rather rapidly in my QT from them. What happened is I ordered 3 carberryi anthias, which were quite large, and the one appeared to have a lump on it's side. well I immediately called and they suggested bacterial and I use melafix. So I did as such but the lump turned red, got worse and another fish got the same lump.

At this pt I called liveaquaria back and they said they would increase the warranty to a month on both fish. Unfortunately they did not last more than another day, but I did get refunded. I decided to bite the bullet and order 3 more... well these 3 were perfect! Very healthy besides flukes which is to be expected.

My questions are:
Do I repeat the order? I would
Do I give up and ask them to credit my card? I would just order another order, so no
What happens if the repeat order dies again? Ask them to refund and eat the shipping cost this next time.
What should I do? I would give it another shot!!

jong11 · 09/17/2011, 07:16 AM

I'm wondering why you have live rock in your QT? If you have to treat your fish, whatever you use will leach into the rock.

shifty51008 · 09/17/2011, 08:21 AM

I agree with the above with asking LA how they will handle the order next time and if they have any suggestions on how to solve the problem.

I have ordered from them multiple times and they have been great about asking questions. and if they don't know the answer they find out and have you talk to them and just not leave you in the dark. this is why I will only buy fish from them.

Sk8r · 09/17/2011, 08:28 AM

I have never had any issue that was not addressed and handled...a highfin goby that swallowed a bubble or something during shipping. In general they are responsive to hobbyists and to science, try to reflect the latest info, and their stock comes in clean, be it corals or fish. I'd re-order.

hvacman250 · 09/17/2011, 08:30 AM

If possible, because the selection is limited, order from LA's Divers Den. Ive never had a fish die from the Divers Den section. Last order with LA, 3 of the 5 fish died within 2 days.

Reefing Newbie · 09/17/2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jong11

I'm wondering why you have live rock in your QT? If you have to treat your fish, whatever you use will leach into the rock.

Depending on the fish you eventually plan on stocking in your DT, you may need LR in the QT to keep them there long enough. Tangs will need some LR to graze on while in QT to keep them full and healthy. Angels will need LR as well in QT as they graze and it offers hiding spots.

jcw · 09/17/2011, 11:09 AM

The important question is...

If not LA, then where.

Where are you going to get this kind of customer service and nearly iron clad guarantee where you don't have to send pics, chop tails off dead fish, use your credit in a single purchase, etc.

Order again. I have amd will continue to. Despite the minor mistakes and occasional fish that doesn't make it.

lordofthereef · 09/17/2011, 11:30 AM

It's a tough call. What was the temperature of the bags the fish were in when they arrived? Did you notice anything else amiss? It sounds like your entire order died, for the most part. Are you certain there isn't something going on with your QT?

blennielove · 09/17/2011, 02:48 PM

Thank You, Everyone for your insight and replies!!!

I know everyone's confidence in LA and the occasional bad shipment is expected. But I guess I worry because it is the first time I bought fish unseen, and I've been told by my LFS that I am very particular when I pick out a fish...and then there is my "history" with wrasses.

But all in all, I think the consensus is to give them another try.

The reason why I'm trying them in the first place is that I've lost my very good relationship with my LFS. All the guys I know who knows anything are gone and the new staff there didn't even know what a Halichoeres wrasse is!?! They couldn't answer my usual questions of: How long have you had the fish? Have the system been treated with copper/formaldehyde/hypo? Have this fish been eating mysis? Can you show me how he's responding to pellets?

To answer some of the questions...

It's a tough call. What was the temperature of the bags the fish were in when they arrived? Did you notice anything else amiss? It sounds like your entire order died, for the most part. Are you certain there isn't something going on with your QT?
There was a blue "cooler" looking bag in with the fishes. The temperature seemed cooler to me but I didn't measure (next time I will - I never even thought of that), but the temperature was what made me think about acclimating them with float method versus drip. I prefer drip and I think I will definitely be using that method next time.
Question about this drip method...I know one is supposed to "float" the bag first but I don't understand why get the fish to acclimate to one temperature and then have that temperature change when they are being dripped with tank water over an hour? Couldn't I just set them up and start drip instead - this is how I acclimate fishes I get from my LFS and they do very very well.

Other things I noted strange immediately was that all the fishes arrived in the SAME SIZE bags. Because I had three quaranteen set up, I wanted to know which fish was going to which tank and I was surprised that a 1.25" algae blennie is in the same sized bag as the 4" sleeper banded goby and 3.5" Vrolik's wrasse. I actually asked LA about this and the lady told me that it didn't matter much because they were not in the bags "that long". I would think that this may have caused the gashes on the fishes from rubbing on the seams of the bags?

My quaranteen tanks have been up for months. The 20 gallon long has been set up for two years, the other two nano's have been up for four years. Yeah...I keep empty tanks running with light cycles and all, I even do water changes on them every month...I tested the water when I decided to place the order with LA and all was good on Friday, then I did another parameter check day one and three after I got the fishes. Since the tanks are fully cycled and I didn't feed the fishes much of anything, things stayed really stable. I even have a few coral polyps in there as my "canary" and they have been consistently fully open.

I'm wondering why you have live rock in your QT? If you have to treat your fish, whatever you use will leach into the rock.
I have live rock and stuff in my QT because I do the passive type of QT, meaning, I watch and wait and wait longer. I have several tanks around that at the first sign of illness, I actually take all the live rocks/rubbles/sand out of the tank maybe leaving a couple pieces for the fish to feel comfy in and then dose the tank with meds or drop the salinity for hypo. This way, my "sick" fish will remain in a tank that they are already familiar with and I'm not stressing them by chasing them around with a net. This also means that the tank water and sponges are cycled as best it can and if there is bacteria die off, then the tank is already seeded with bacteria.
And like Reefing Newbie wrote, some fishes require some live rocks for grazing and in general, I've noticed that fishes are appear much calmer in a more natural environment.

I will contact LA and ask them what would they do if this happens again. That is a good idea and I'll share my answer with you all when I get it!

Please share any thoughts!!!

Thanks!!!

lordofthereef · 09/17/2011, 03:07 PM

I always like to do some tests on the water the fish shipped in before doing anything. If the bag is ammonia-laden, the longer the fish sits in the bag, the worse off it is. A quick salinity, pH, and temperature check is all great to do as well.

If you really want to do a drip (as I said I generally don't like prolonging the specimen being in the bag), dumping the back into a small stryo cooler or cup (depending on the size of fish) with a lid works well. You can keep them in near complete darkness, the stryo (especially the coolers) do great at insulating, and you can easily poke a hole for your airline to set up that drip.

phillyfishguy · 09/17/2011, 03:10 PM

I use them and the customer service is awesome and my fish come as I would expect from a high end fish place.

blennielove · 09/17/2011, 03:18 PM

Hey guys/gals!

You won't believe this, but as I was typing my last reply a really nice lady from LA called. We talked on the phone and she was very professional and supportive. She asked if she can send me a replacement order and asked if there was any concerns that I had with this previous shipment. I shared my thoughts about the bags being a little tight and she informed me that she will note this with the shipper and make sure that the fishes are placed in larger bags with more water! I asked about the Halichoeres wrasses maybe doing better shipped in sand and admitted that LA is the professionals with the experience. She explained that they used to ship them in sand but over time they learned that the sand actually does not improve survival rates as it rubs on the fishes constantly when the "package" is in motion!
She offered, I didn't even have to ask, that the warranty is the same with replacement fish. I shared my surprise and asked how they can do this when there may be bad people out there who will take advantage of this. She shared that LA believes in their customers and will know if something is not right.

WOW! Talk about service! I would have NEVER BELIEVED this type of service existed if it didn't actually happen to me!

WOW! I still get goose pimples thinking about it!

lordofthereef · 09/17/2011, 03:21 PM

Well there you go. Hope your next shipment turns out better!

blennielove · 09/17/2011, 04:07 PM

Thanks for the pointers, LordOfTheReef!

I will do a test on the shipping waters and do the styrofoam thing for drip acclimation!

Hope the next shipment is better! My husband finally found out the truth today about the wrasses dying...he is not happy with me...I really hope the next shipment is good...I know the next shipment will be good!

It's just a brief rambling...

:smile:

jeffesaurusrex · 09/17/2011, 04:55 PM

Sorry about your bad luck but please keep us posted about the condition of the next shipment. I was just getting ready to place an order with them, hopefully they aren't having some kind of quality lapse!

firewill65 · 09/17/2011, 10:19 PM

Here is my experience....They offer excellent customer service. I will continue to order from them. Things don't always go as planned...but they will do their best to fix things.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2052078

blennielove · 09/20/2011, 03:53 PM

Greetings all,

I just received my shipment of the partial replacement today. LA had only two of the four deceased fish and send them in extra large bags with lots of water as I had discussed with the really nice lady I spoke with! I was really happy about the larger bags as the fishes looked so much better than last week's! The two I received today were the Sleeper Banded Goby and Hoeven's Wrasse. The Sleeper looked huge and appears to be in good condition without any tears in his/her fins like the first one did nor wounds in his/her body. The Hoeven's went into the sand as they normally do and I didn't have a chance to take a really good look at her as I did the acclimation and release into quarantine in a VERY DIM room.
I took the advice of many of you and I checked their water parameters and matched the quarantine's to it:
LA Quarantine
pH 7.8 (goby) 8.2 (wrasse) 8.2
Salinity 1.018 1.018
Temp 74 76
I chose to do the drip method and they were in the tank in exactly one hour after opening their bags!

They are both in the same quarantine tank as I am saving the others for the other part of my order. I would have seperated them if I saw any wounds on either of the fishes though. You won't believe how many cycled tanks I can put together!!!

I got an e-mail telling me that the Vrokik's is available so I called LA and spoke with a really nice lady and asked what I should do... She explained that it would be best to wait a little longer and see what all comes in. At first I was really disappointed but as I thought it through, it is best to wait and see if the Vrolik's, Red Stripped, and the Radiant wrasses become available together. I guess if I learned anything from this hobby, it would be the value of having patience!

Update on the little algae blenny (the only survivor of the first shipment): He is absolutely adorable and doing well. Finally starting to have a full belly and comes to the front of his quarantine tank and "begs" for food and attention! He loves to eat off a fork that I put a chunk of ON frozen formula 1 or 2 on! I'll have to get a picture sometimes as it will make you laugh!

I'll keep you updated as to how this transaction pans out!

2reefnutz · 09/20/2011, 04:38 PM

I really enjoyed this thread.....I have thought many times about ordering from them but always got nervous and decided on the LFS. Sounds like the service couldn't be better. I will still support my LFS but can use LA for the guys/creatures I can't get here. And I would love to see your blenny begging

blennielove · 09/21/2011, 08:28 PM

Just an update...

The Hoeven's wrasse has been out since early afternoon and has been eating my mix of frozen ON formula 1 and 2, mysis. The Sleeper banded goby is HUGE and this afternoon became less frightened of me and also been eating well.

Noticed a little patch of missing scales on the Hoeven's but does not look like anything. You may make out a patch on the picture I've added.

Sorry, but after I took this picture of the algae blenny he figured out that I had a camera and wouldn't pose with the fork! I'll try again tomorrow!

These two look so much better and behaving so normal compared with my first shipment! I really think the larger bags helped as they did not acquire any damage from shipping it seemed.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and I'm still waiting on LA to get all the fishes I've ordered in stock so they can send it out. I noticed the Vroliks's is out of stock again...

I can't wait!

blennielove · 10/04/2011, 04:01 PM

Hi, All!
For the sake of completeness here is the results of "this" order in summary:
1. From the first shipment, only the Algae blenny is alive and well adjusted in his quarantine tank and plans on moving into his permanent home this coming weekend.
2. The second shipment of Hoeven's wrasse and Sleeper banded goby, Mr. Goby died a few days ago and LA credited me his cost.
3. I called several times to LA seeing that the Radiant wrasse was available including some of the other wrasses that would be a replacement order. Both times, the nice ladies I spoke with encouraged me to wait until they have more of my missing order. I then wrote them and explained my situation as I have a holiday planned in November and in order to have them in quarantine for four weeks and in my tanks for two weeks before I leave, I have to receive them by a certain date. Well, my third shipment of four fish: Orangemarked goby, Redlined wrasse, Vrolik's wrasse, and NO Radiant wrasse.
4. Out of that third shipement, only the Orangemarked goby is alive.
I called LA today to ask what to do now, they explained that I have a credit that I may use for purchase of livestock and/or supplies in the future.
That is all fine and LA stand up to their promise.
But the feelings left in me after experiencing so many losses, and then after reading many other's recent reports on LA purchases is that I'm not alone.
Bottom line. We all take risks when making these purchases, and for us, we may loose a few bucks, but the livestock may loose their life.
Just my 2 cents...

Playerdrm · 10/04/2011, 06:33 PM

Acclimation might be the problem I've always been under the impression that when having fish shipped they need to be out of the bag and into quarantine within 15-30 minutes of opening the bag do to rising ammonia levels once the air hits the water.

blennielove · 10/04/2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playerdrm

Acclimation might be the problem I've always been under the impression that when having fish shipped they need to be out of the bag and into quarantine within 15-30 minutes of opening the bag do to rising ammonia levels once the air hits the water.

I temperature acclimate first for 15 to 20 minutes with sealed bag. Once bag is opened, I start drip acclimation that lasts 45-60 minutes, I always fill the bag once, pour half out, fill again, then fish in tank.

09/16/2011, 10:14 PM	#1
blennielove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States Posts: 325	LiveAquaria order question...HELP! Hello all at RC, I'm not sure where to post this so if it's in the wrong place... I recently joined the tens of thousands who order fish from LiveAquaria. I ordered 7 fish and two of them were out of stock, so my five fishes came. They arrived great by FedEx and I was home to receive them and start their acclimation process immediately in a darkened room. I chose to do the Floating Method as described on LA's acclimation guide. I did this because my fish room temp was 68 degrees and dripping them would cause the temperature to drop after initial adjustment of temperature by floating the bag in the tank. After doing 1/2 cup water every 4 minutes until full bag x 2, lasting an hour, I was ready to place the fishes into THREE quarantine tanks that have been set up for MONTHS. These are essentially mini reef tanks with live sand/rocks, copepods, little stars, bristle worms, and all. Upon quick examination of the first specimen, Sleeper Banded Goby, I noted a fairly large gash on his side about 3/4 down his body. I placed him in his own quarantine as I was afraid that what ever that gash is, may spread. He was found dead the next morning. Second specimen, a gorgeous Vrolik's wrasse. I thought he looked a little big for the bag he was in but he looked pretty good. He and specimen three (Red streaked wrasse) went into a 20 long quarantine tank as they looked the healthiest and are to be placed in the same display. The Vrolik's came out to eat that evening, but died the next afternoon. The Red Streaked wrasse died today, which is day number four (I received them Monday). The Red Streaked came out to eat the evening of the second day, did not come out for two days and found dead today. The fourth specimen, a little Hoeven's or Melanurus, had a wound near the side of her head noted on day two when she came out - I acclimated in near darkness and she went into the sand immediately after release. She died sometime on day three. The fifth and last is the little algae blennie. He is doing very well, doing some general cleaning for the quarantine tank. Today, he ate some frozen ON formula 2 from a little fork. It was adorable. LA has handled this beautifully. I e-mailed them and they responded and credited me for the price of the fish. They offered advise when I was pretty distrought and we talked on the phone. We discussed what I did and they thought that I pretty much did things right... I read here of everyone's wonderful experience with LA... They have the fishes that I would like to keep... My questions are: Do I repeat the order? Do I give up and ask them to credit my card? What happens if the repeat order dies again? What should I do? I'm sure you are wondering this by now... Tank parameters: Temp 80 Salinity 1.025 pH 8.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 All three tanks have been running fallow for more than 6 months. They are all teaming with copepods and all sorts of sea creatures and I do monthly water changes on them with fresh salt water. I've been planning this purchase for a LONG time... Some of you may remember on another thread I shared my poor success rate with wrasses... maybe I'm just jinxed! Thanks for any feedback! BlennieLove...maybe I should change it to WrasseKiller!

09/17/2011, 01:14 AM	#2
bmw325i Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: El Paso Posts: 5	LA usually sells top notch fish especially if you ordered it from the divers den. Id say give it another shot. __________________ Patience Patience Patience Current Tank Info: 156 gallon FOWLR

09/17/2011, 07:06 AM	#4
Lynnmw1208 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Brunswick, Ohio Posts: 3,306	I had a similar issue like you where my fish died rather rapidly in my QT from them. What happened is I ordered 3 carberryi anthias, which were quite large, and the one appeared to have a lump on it's side. well I immediately called and they suggested bacterial and I use melafix. So I did as such but the lump turned red, got worse and another fish got the same lump. At this pt I called liveaquaria back and they said they would increase the warranty to a month on both fish. Unfortunately they did not last more than another day, but I did get refunded. I decided to bite the bullet and order 3 more... well these 3 were perfect! Very healthy besides flukes which is to be expected. My questions are: Do I repeat the order? I would Do I give up and ask them to credit my card? I would just order another order, so no What happens if the repeat order dies again? Ask them to refund and eat the shipping cost this next time. What should I do? I would give it another shot!! __________________ equipment: Eshopps psk-200 skimmer, Mag 12 pump, 30gal sump, 2x 300w Finnex heaters, glass-holes 1500gph overflow kit with 3/4" return kits, 72" 8x36w t-5 AquaticLife light, 66lbs of LR, 150lbs of tropic eden reeflakes, 2 Koralia Evo 1400, JBJ ATO, BRS dual GFO/carbon reactors, Hydor smartwave Current Tank Info: 125gallon

09/17/2011, 07:16 AM	#5
jong11 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Maine Posts: 396	I'm wondering why you have live rock in your QT? If you have to treat your fish, whatever you use will leach into the rock. __________________ 10 gallon nano - par 38 led bulb, 2 hk nano 240gph, 75w jager heater, aquaclear 70 (w/ ac 20 impeller), rkl controller Current Tank Info: 10 gal nano, 40 gal breeder (in progress)

09/17/2011, 08:21 AM	#6
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	I agree with the above with asking LA how they will handle the order next time and if they have any suggestions on how to solve the problem. I have ordered from them multiple times and they have been great about asking questions. and if they don't know the answer they find out and have you talk to them and just not leave you in the dark. this is why I will only buy fish from them. __________________ 75 gal. mixed DT, 100 gal. sump, 50 gal. fuge, Clownfish breeder

09/17/2011, 08:28 AM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I have never had any issue that was not addressed and handled...a highfin goby that swallowed a bubble or something during shipping. In general they are responsive to hobbyists and to science, try to reflect the latest info, and their stock comes in clean, be it corals or fish. I'd re-order. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

09/17/2011, 08:30 AM	#8
hvacman250 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 733	If possible, because the selection is limited, order from LA's Divers Den. Ive never had a fish die from the Divers Den section. Last order with LA, 3 of the 5 fish died within 2 days. __________________ 220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT

09/17/2011, 11:09 AM	#10
jcw Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: elmhurst, il Posts: 1,778	The important question is... If not LA, then where. Where are you going to get this kind of customer service and nearly iron clad guarantee where you don't have to send pics, chop tails off dead fish, use your credit in a single purchase, etc. Order again. I have amd will continue to. Despite the minor mistakes and occasional fish that doesn't make it. __________________ I don't think Coral can live very long under Sun light. It's too yellow. ...get yourself some LED's. -eznet2u Current Tank Info: 125g DT, custom 30g sump, ATB elegance, eheim 1260, mp40 (too many failed wetsides), gyre 150 (love it)

09/17/2011, 11:30 AM	#11
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	It's a tough call. What was the temperature of the bags the fish were in when they arrived? Did you notice anything else amiss? It sounds like your entire order died, for the most part. Are you certain there isn't something going on with your QT? __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

09/17/2011, 02:48 PM	#12
blennielove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States Posts: 325	Thank You, Everyone for your insight and replies!!! I know everyone's confidence in LA and the occasional bad shipment is expected. But I guess I worry because it is the first time I bought fish unseen, and I've been told by my LFS that I am very particular when I pick out a fish...and then there is my "history" with wrasses. But all in all, I think the consensus is to give them another try. The reason why I'm trying them in the first place is that I've lost my very good relationship with my LFS. All the guys I know who knows anything are gone and the new staff there didn't even know what a Halichoeres wrasse is!?! They couldn't answer my usual questions of: How long have you had the fish? Have the system been treated with copper/formaldehyde/hypo? Have this fish been eating mysis? Can you show me how he's responding to pellets? To answer some of the questions... It's a tough call. What was the temperature of the bags the fish were in when they arrived? Did you notice anything else amiss? It sounds like your entire order died, for the most part. Are you certain there isn't something going on with your QT? There was a blue "cooler" looking bag in with the fishes. The temperature seemed cooler to me but I didn't measure (next time I will - I never even thought of that), but the temperature was what made me think about acclimating them with float method versus drip. I prefer drip and I think I will definitely be using that method next time. Question about this drip method...I know one is supposed to "float" the bag first but I don't understand why get the fish to acclimate to one temperature and then have that temperature change when they are being dripped with tank water over an hour? Couldn't I just set them up and start drip instead - this is how I acclimate fishes I get from my LFS and they do very very well. Other things I noted strange immediately was that all the fishes arrived in the SAME SIZE bags. Because I had three quaranteen set up, I wanted to know which fish was going to which tank and I was surprised that a 1.25" algae blennie is in the same sized bag as the 4" sleeper banded goby and 3.5" Vrolik's wrasse. I actually asked LA about this and the lady told me that it didn't matter much because they were not in the bags "that long". I would think that this may have caused the gashes on the fishes from rubbing on the seams of the bags? My quaranteen tanks have been up for months. The 20 gallon long has been set up for two years, the other two nano's have been up for four years. Yeah...I keep empty tanks running with light cycles and all, I even do water changes on them every month...I tested the water when I decided to place the order with LA and all was good on Friday, then I did another parameter check day one and three after I got the fishes. Since the tanks are fully cycled and I didn't feed the fishes much of anything, things stayed really stable. I even have a few coral polyps in there as my "canary" and they have been consistently fully open. I'm wondering why you have live rock in your QT? If you have to treat your fish, whatever you use will leach into the rock. I have live rock and stuff in my QT because I do the passive type of QT, meaning, I watch and wait and wait longer. I have several tanks around that at the first sign of illness, I actually take all the live rocks/rubbles/sand out of the tank maybe leaving a couple pieces for the fish to feel comfy in and then dose the tank with meds or drop the salinity for hypo. This way, my "sick" fish will remain in a tank that they are already familiar with and I'm not stressing them by chasing them around with a net. This also means that the tank water and sponges are cycled as best it can and if there is bacteria die off, then the tank is already seeded with bacteria. And like Reefing Newbie wrote, some fishes require some live rocks for grazing and in general, I've noticed that fishes are appear much calmer in a more natural environment. I will contact LA and ask them what would they do if this happens again. That is a good idea and I'll share my answer with you all when I get it! Please share any thoughts!!! Thanks!!!

09/17/2011, 03:07 PM	#13
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	I always like to do some tests on the water the fish shipped in before doing anything. If the bag is ammonia-laden, the longer the fish sits in the bag, the worse off it is. A quick salinity, pH, and temperature check is all great to do as well. If you really want to do a drip (as I said I generally don't like prolonging the specimen being in the bag), dumping the back into a small stryo cooler or cup (depending on the size of fish) with a lid works well. You can keep them in near complete darkness, the stryo (especially the coolers) do great at insulating, and you can easily poke a hole for your airline to set up that drip. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

09/17/2011, 03:10 PM	#14
phillyfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: philadelphia pa Posts: 233	I use them and the customer service is awesome and my fish come as I would expect from a high end fish place.

09/17/2011, 03:18 PM	#15
blennielove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States Posts: 325	Hey guys/gals! You won't believe this, but as I was typing my last reply a really nice lady from LA called. We talked on the phone and she was very professional and supportive. She asked if she can send me a replacement order and asked if there was any concerns that I had with this previous shipment. I shared my thoughts about the bags being a little tight and she informed me that she will note this with the shipper and make sure that the fishes are placed in larger bags with more water! I asked about the Halichoeres wrasses maybe doing better shipped in sand and admitted that LA is the professionals with the experience. She explained that they used to ship them in sand but over time they learned that the sand actually does not improve survival rates as it rubs on the fishes constantly when the "package" is in motion! She offered, I didn't even have to ask, that the warranty is the same with replacement fish. I shared my surprise and asked how they can do this when there may be bad people out there who will take advantage of this. She shared that LA believes in their customers and will know if something is not right. WOW! Talk about service! I would have NEVER BELIEVED this type of service existed if it didn't actually happen to me! WOW! I still get goose pimples thinking about it!

09/17/2011, 03:21 PM	#16
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	Well there you go. Hope your next shipment turns out better! __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

09/17/2011, 04:07 PM	#17
blennielove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States Posts: 325	Thanks for the pointers, LordOfTheReef! I will do a test on the shipping waters and do the styrofoam thing for drip acclimation! Hope the next shipment is better! My husband finally found out the truth today about the wrasses dying...he is not happy with me...I really hope the next shipment is good...I know the next shipment will be good! It's just a brief rambling... :smile:

09/17/2011, 04:55 PM	#18
jeffesaurusrex Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Terre Haute, IN Posts: 322	Sorry about your bad luck but please keep us posted about the condition of the next shipment. I was just getting ready to place an order with them, hopefully they aren't having some kind of quality lapse! __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube - StevesLEDs - MP10 - Apex - Tunze

09/17/2011, 10:19 PM	#19
firewill65 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 746	Here is my experience....They offer excellent customer service. I will continue to order from them. Things don't always go as planned...but they will do their best to fix things. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2052078

09/20/2011, 03:53 PM	#20
blennielove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States Posts: 325	Greetings all, I just received my shipment of the partial replacement today. LA had only two of the four deceased fish and send them in extra large bags with lots of water as I had discussed with the really nice lady I spoke with! I was really happy about the larger bags as the fishes looked so much better than last week's! The two I received today were the Sleeper Banded Goby and Hoeven's Wrasse. The Sleeper looked huge and appears to be in good condition without any tears in his/her fins like the first one did nor wounds in his/her body. The Hoeven's went into the sand as they normally do and I didn't have a chance to take a really good look at her as I did the acclimation and release into quarantine in a VERY DIM room. I took the advice of many of you and I checked their water parameters and matched the quarantine's to it: LA Quarantine pH 7.8 (goby) 8.2 (wrasse) 8.2 Salinity 1.018 1.018 Temp 74 76 I chose to do the drip method and they were in the tank in exactly one hour after opening their bags! They are both in the same quarantine tank as I am saving the others for the other part of my order. I would have seperated them if I saw any wounds on either of the fishes though. You won't believe how many cycled tanks I can put together!!! I got an e-mail telling me that the Vrokik's is available so I called LA and spoke with a really nice lady and asked what I should do... She explained that it would be best to wait a little longer and see what all comes in. At first I was really disappointed but as I thought it through, it is best to wait and see if the Vrolik's, Red Stripped, and the Radiant wrasses become available together. I guess if I learned anything from this hobby, it would be the value of having patience! Update on the little algae blenny (the only survivor of the first shipment): He is absolutely adorable and doing well. Finally starting to have a full belly and comes to the front of his quarantine tank and "begs" for food and attention! He loves to eat off a fork that I put a chunk of ON frozen formula 1 or 2 on! I'll have to get a picture sometimes as it will make you laugh! I'll keep you updated as to how this transaction pans out!

09/20/2011, 04:38 PM	#21
2reefnutz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Waterloo, IL Posts: 97	I really enjoyed this thread.....I have thought many times about ordering from them but always got nervous and decided on the LFS. Sounds like the service couldn't be better. I will still support my LFS but can use LA for the guys/creatures I can't get here. And I would love to see your blenny begging __________________ 150g reef with 100g sump and 40g frag with 75g sump.

10/04/2011, 04:01 PM	#23
blennielove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States Posts: 325	Hi, All! For the sake of completeness here is the results of "this" order in summary: 1. From the first shipment, only the Algae blenny is alive and well adjusted in his quarantine tank and plans on moving into his permanent home this coming weekend. 2. The second shipment of Hoeven's wrasse and Sleeper banded goby, Mr. Goby died a few days ago and LA credited me his cost. 3. I called several times to LA seeing that the Radiant wrasse was available including some of the other wrasses that would be a replacement order. Both times, the nice ladies I spoke with encouraged me to wait until they have more of my missing order. I then wrote them and explained my situation as I have a holiday planned in November and in order to have them in quarantine for four weeks and in my tanks for two weeks before I leave, I have to receive them by a certain date. Well, my third shipment of four fish: Orangemarked goby, Redlined wrasse, Vrolik's wrasse, and NO Radiant wrasse. 4. Out of that third shipement, only the Orangemarked goby is alive. I called LA today to ask what to do now, they explained that I have a credit that I may use for purchase of livestock and/or supplies in the future. That is all fine and LA stand up to their promise. But the feelings left in me after experiencing so many losses, and then after reading many other's recent reports on LA purchases is that I'm not alone. Bottom line. We all take risks when making these purchases, and for us, we may loose a few bucks, but the livestock may loose their life. Just my 2 cents...

10/04/2011, 06:33 PM	#24
Playerdrm Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 135	Acclimation might be the problem I've always been under the impression that when having fish shipped they need to be out of the bag and into quarantine within 15-30 minutes of opening the bag do to rising ammonia levels once the air hits the water. __________________ Reef Tanks: 29g, 55g, 58g FOWLR Tanks: 240g, 125g (In Progress)

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