HELP -- My new fish are dying

[AudraMurphy]

Hello. I am having a bit of a mystery in my tank. I have a 50 gallon aquarium with a 3" sand bed and about 65 pounds of live rock. I have two HOB filters. One is a Marineland 200 and the other a Marineland 350. I also have a SeaClone Protein Skimmer rated for a 100 gallon tank. The tank was set up about 3 maybe 4 months ago. I purchased the live rock from a LFS. Shortly thereafter I purchased a Yellow Tang. (Water test prior to Yellow Tang showed water was good.) After Tang was added to the tank I began to notice white spots all over him. I treated the tank for ich and went the full 10 weeks the instructions said. I then waited three weeks after before getting new fish. During the three weeks prior to getting fish I performed a couple water changes. I tested the water again before getting fish and get the same results as I did before I added the Tang:

pH: 8.2
Salinity: 1.026 (working on lowering)
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 5
Phosphate: 0.25
Carbonate Hardness: 179
Calcium: 420

I have several corals that made it through the ich treatment. I only have one tank so I don't have the ability to transfer the sick fish to a QT. The corals seemed to struggle while treating the tank but now are now doing great.

My problems is... I purchased 14 small fish from LiveAquaria last Thursday. Acclimiation instructions were followed to the letter. The next day I noticed I was missing one or two. The next day the same thing. I am now down to 6 fish. I have no idea what could be causing the fish to die so quickly. Is there something else I should be testing for?

My corals are doing great. I have crabs and snails that seem to be fine. I have a sand sifting star fish that moves around as usual. Nothing seems to be out of the ordinary when it comes to the corals and inverts. It's the fish I seem to be having trouble with.

Any help would be wonderful. If you need additional information in order to help me with this I will be glad to provide it.

Thank you!!

[Kabuto]

Ummm... 14 fish in a 50g and at one time!?? I think you answered your own question.

[maymania6]

You added WAY too many fish WAY too quickly. Add one or two fish at one time TOPS. You will be very limited to how many fish your tank can hold. The number will NEVER be 14.

[Lord Baltimore]

Your tanks biofilter (the bacteria built up in your tank to deal with waste) was not strong enough to handle such a massive introduction of new fish. It is better to add fish slowly, one every few months maybe, to allow your tanks bacterial colonies to keep up with the strain of the newly added bioload. Sounds like you had a few too many fish for any eventuality. It's hard to be patient, believe me, I am relatively new to saltwater tanks, but I have been keeping fish for years now and patience, along with research, is really the key to saving your fish (not to mention the money you spend on them.)

[AudraMurphy]

Thank you for your help. I'm actually asking for a friend of mine. Should we take out all the remaining fish and leave two or three? Is it too late for the fish?

[MonsterTankMan]

Too many fish too soon, and too small of a tank. Tangs really need an established system( no less than 6to 8 months old).

[RooKi3]

Hope your fish adapt, best of luck.

[jeff@zina.com]

Originally Posted by AudraMurphy

Thank you for your help. I'm actually asking for a friend of mine. Should we take out all the remaining fish and leave two or three? Is it too late for the fish?

Keep doing water changes to keep your ammonias down and the fish should make it through. How many and what fish do you have left?

Jeff

[sponger0]

Too small of a tank for a tank first off. Secondly a seaclone skimmer is crap. I know people say they work but you would be better off with a different skimmer. And 14 fish is WAAAAY too many fish for a 50 gallon. Since your down to 6, I would wait and keep those and let your system adjust to all of its gone through. Also if you still have ich, treat the fish in a hospital tank

[Fish Hooked]

What kind of fish? How small is small? Are you sure they died? Have you found evidence of death and decay? There is a chance some of the fish might have sought refuge within the rock work. As Jeff mentioned keep doing water changes. Also you should begin finding options to re-home some of the fish to increase survival chances.

[AudraMurphy]

These are the remaining fish

1 - Sailfin Blenny
1 - Ocellaris Clownfish
1 - Blue Reef Chromis
2 - Blue Damselfish
1 - Yellowtail Damselfish
1 - Blue Axil Chromis

There is also a blue tuxedo sea urchin (medium), and 2 peppermint shrimp, and 1 green lettuce nudibranch.

How often should water changes be performed and how many gallons? I tested the water in the tank four days after the fish were added and the ammonia result showed 0 ppm. Which is one reason I was puzzled why they were dying. Knowing that there were WAY too many in the tank explains a lot.

Thanks again for your help!!

[Dustin1300]

Please research much more before you kill more fish. You should never add that many fish at a time...I'm planning an 800 gallon system and I'll likely only add 3-5 fish at a time to a 450 gallon DT.

Do water changes based on your testing. A normal WC is 15-25% weekly but that all depends on so many different variables that one answer does not fit all!

[89Foxbody]

If someone doesn't know the basics of doing water changes (how often and how much water) they shouldn't even have water in the tank yet. Your friend has a lot of reading to do...

[jamesdean3]

those aren;t really big fish.... might not actually be too much of a problem. probably stress from shipping and quick acclimation process could be the culpret

[sslak]

The remaining fish should actually be OK. You're probably right about at your limit.

As a point of reference, I currently have only 4 fish of similar clownfish size in my 58g (running for 3 years).

Go slow...see what happens with these. They could certainly survive if you keep up with maintenance, but as others have said, it was just too much too fast.

[AudraMurphy]

We know the basics of water changes and how much and how often. I was simply asking for more input. I apologize if it gave the impression we didn't know the basics of performing water changes.

I got into this hobby a year ago when my church was given a 100 gallon aquarium (fish and all). I understand fully that I still have a lot to learn when it comes to keeping fish.

I appreciate everyone's help and will remind my friend as well as myself to remember to research thoroughly before doing anything to prevent unnecessary deaths of livestock.

[xCry0x]

You added a bunch of a** hole fish that are probably all killing eachother. Damsels and Chromis are all going to go to war with eachother.

Not to mention you added 14 of them at once, they are all going to/have been fighting for territory in a tank that is too small.

[charleneatkins]

If the fish were bought all at the same time and from thesame LSF, let me email my paypal account and you can send me the money. Plus I will give you better advice.

[Reef Doctor]

The additional question is how were your fish added? Obviously you didn't quarantine, but did you check salinity, temp, etc. from the bag of fish and titrate that to your display tank? Or were the fish just floated a few minutes and dumped in? Also, how long did it take from the time you opened the bags of fish to when you got them in the tank? 14 fish at a time is hard to manage if they were all opened at once. If that wasn't checked, your fish could have some serious distress.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by xCry0x

You added a bunch of a** hole fish that are probably all killing eachother. Damsels and Chromis are all going to go to war with eachother.

Not to mention you added 14 of them at once, they are all going to/have been fighting for territory in a tank that is too small.

I agree with this. There's a reason why the blue damsel is also known as the blue devilfish. They're absolutely evil little tyrants that will chase everything they see until it dies unless they're in a huge tank. Having one in your tank first pretty much guarantees that anything added later will be attacked. Also, as others pointed out, stay away from tangs. They don't do well in small tanks and will just be a source of trouble later (if they live long enough).

[AudraMurphy]

We followed the Floating Method provided on the instructions from LiveAquaria. These were followed to the letter. They were placed in the bag for 15 minutes. Then we added 1/2 cup of aquarium water to the bag. Repeated this step every 5 minutes until the bag was ful. Discarded half the water (not in the tank) and repeated this step every four minutes until the bag was full. Fish were then placed in the aquarium. Water the fish were shipped in was then discarded.

As it has been very clearly pointed out earlier there was not enough research done on the number of fish that should be added to a tank at a time types of fish that should be housed together. I think it is evident that these errors is what has caused the fish to die.

Thank you for all your help.

[heckfire]

thats the reality of this hobby,,its trial and error, even the most arrogant and all knowing here have made similar mistakes, also id love to see that 800 gallon tank.......

[Kabuto]

As the others said, what you have left should be ok. Your live rock is gaining more bacteria to compensate for the bio load and water changes will help. You never really want to add more than a pair or single fish at a time.

I would research more on fish behavior and what fish can live with each other. Liveaquaria has a little chart. Usually a tank livestock is designed around a main fish choice. For example your main fish you want might be a type of tang. You then want to add fish that can coexist with that fish.

[jeff@zina.com]

Originally Posted by AudraMurphy

How often should water changes be performed and how many gallons?

I'd do 20% a week for the next month, then knock back to 10% a week and watch the parameters to see oif you need more.

Jeff