Confused, skimming so soon?

aarond21 · 12/02/2011, 09:00 AM

Ive recently set up a 72 bf. Its not RR nor is it drilled. I'm using a cs90 overflow, amiracle sump, rio 2100 pump, instant ocean sea clone 100 skimmer. I'm using dry rock and sand to start this one, never done this before. I added the rock, then the water got the setup running then added the sand. Then I brought it up to temp. It sat running for a day with RO/DI water in it with the rocks and sand, after it cleared up and came up to 79F. I measured out my salt and added it. I added the salt around 5pm. I woke up this morning to find the skimmer is already producing skim-mate(sp). Is this normal to have started so soon?

Thanks

daplatapus · 12/02/2011, 09:07 AM

I'm fairly new to the process as well but from what I understand, yes, this is normal, however.... there really is no need to run your skimmer so early in the cycle process. You really want all the crud and bacteria you can cultivate in there. I would turn the skimmer off for a couple weeks and let the cycle take it's course.

ScottB · 12/02/2011, 09:41 AM

What you are seeing is perfectly normal. For whatever chemical reason, I don't know, the surface tension on freshwater is not sufficient to produce skimate, while salt water is. So this is why your skimmer started working when you added salt.

Regarding the skimmer operation, I would go the other route. Dry rock still has a lot of organic material that will decay and pollute the water column. It needs to be pulled out by whatever means, which is generally water changes or skimming or both. I might hold off on carbon or GFO or biopellets, but I would skim from day one. But thats just me. Your mileage may vary.

aarond21 · 12/02/2011, 10:12 AM

Thanks to you both for the info.

RubberFrog · 12/02/2011, 10:20 AM

It seems counter productive to run a skimmer on a new tank. The skimmer is pulling out the very waste you want to break down and create ammonia with.

more waste=more ammonia=more bacteria

ScottB · 12/02/2011, 10:38 AM

A lot of people will cycle a tank with a fish or two, or a single raw shrimp, or a few drops of ammonium chloride and produce more than enough ammonia to cycle.

The way I understand it, if you have a huge ammonia spike, and huge bacterial growth to compensate for it, when that ammonia load is gone, the aerobic bacteria population will decrease accordingly. Same goes for nitrite and anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, I don't know what the benefit of growing that bacterial population to excessive numbers, just to let it die off again.

Let me say that this is just my OPINION based my experience. I could be way off the mark.

RubberFrog · 12/02/2011, 10:43 AM

I think you're right on with that. Which leaves us trying to decide what is the right balance between too little and too much.

ScottB · 12/02/2011, 10:44 AM

By the way, HUGE ammonia spikes can be very stressfull to aquatic life when cycling with live animals and/or live rock.

Also, if you don't run the skimmer and clean it often, you run the risk of your living room smelling like a fish market for a week or more. Decaying matter on the dry rock stinks to high heaven.

dzfish17 · 12/02/2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottB

By the way, HUGE ammonia spikes can be very stressfull to aquatic life when cycling with live animals and/or live rock.

Also, if you don't run the skimmer and clean it often, you run the risk of your living room smelling like a fish market for a week or more. Decaying matter on the dry rock stinks to high heaven.

Decaying matter on the dry rock? The dry rock that I used from Marcorocks doesnt have anything on it that could decay and it is cleaned before being shipped. Running the skimmer at this point is a waste of time. There are no DOC for it to remove.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/02/2011, 11:58 AM

What salt mix?

Some, like Reef Crystals, come with organics already added, which may be skimmed out.

ScottB · 12/02/2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzfish17

Decaying matter on the dry rock? The dry rock that I used from Marcorocks doesnt have anything on it that could decay and it is cleaned before being shipped. Running the skimmer at this point is a waste of time. There are no DOC for it to remove.

The dry rock I just cycled from BRS was chock full of organic matter. Specifically sponges that were buried deep in the crevices. When they got wet and expanded and began to decay you could see them. When they broke down you could smell them. And my skimmer could skim them.

I believe both your Marco Rock and my BRS rock was cleaned (many are). However, I find it hard to believe that they were stripped clean. It just wouldn't be cost effective. As always, I could be wrong.

aarond21 · 12/02/2011, 01:01 PM

I used reef crystals. As for the rock its a mix of some fiji I had and some I ordered from reefcleaners.org.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/02/2011, 03:52 PM

If the rock does have dead organisms on it, I'd definitely skim 24/7 from day 1.

If it is mined dead rock, then I'd still skim, but at the start that will primarily be for aeration only. People forget that a huge benefit of skimmers is aeration.

12/02/2011, 09:00 AM	#1
aarond21 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 109	Confused, skimming so soon? Ive recently set up a 72 bf. Its not RR nor is it drilled. I'm using a cs90 overflow, amiracle sump, rio 2100 pump, instant ocean sea clone 100 skimmer. I'm using dry rock and sand to start this one, never done this before. I added the rock, then the water got the setup running then added the sand. Then I brought it up to temp. It sat running for a day with RO/DI water in it with the rocks and sand, after it cleared up and came up to 79F. I measured out my salt and added it. I added the salt around 5pm. I woke up this morning to find the skimmer is already producing skim-mate(sp). Is this normal to have started so soon? Thanks

12/02/2011, 09:07 AM	#2
daplatapus Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Port Alberni, B.C., Canada Posts: 895	I'm fairly new to the process as well but from what I understand, yes, this is normal, however.... there really is no need to run your skimmer so early in the cycle process. You really want all the crud and bacteria you can cultivate in there. I would turn the skimmer off for a couple weeks and let the cycle take it's course. __________________ 130 lbs Tonga LR, GFO and Carbon reactors, Tunze ozmolator ATO, 2- 20 gal QT tanks, Current Tank Info: 80 gal display 48L X 24H X16D, 2 MP-40's, Odyssea 2-250W MH 4-HO T-5 Actinic's, 80 lbs Aragonite sand, 4 - 150W titanium heaters, Reeflo Baracuda return pump, 150gal sump, Filter Guys Reef Miser 6 stage + 1 Dual RO/DI, LifeReef 48" Skimmer

12/02/2011, 09:41 AM	#3
ScottB Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Alabama Posts: 438	What you are seeing is perfectly normal. For whatever chemical reason, I don't know, the surface tension on freshwater is not sufficient to produce skimate, while salt water is. So this is why your skimmer started working when you added salt. Regarding the skimmer operation, I would go the other route. Dry rock still has a lot of organic material that will decay and pollute the water column. It needs to be pulled out by whatever means, which is generally water changes or skimming or both. I might hold off on carbon or GFO or biopellets, but I would skim from day one. But thats just me. Your mileage may vary. __________________ What's the point of havin' a rapier wit if I can't use it to stab people? --Jeph Jacques Current Tank Info: 60g Solana XL - Mixed Reef

12/02/2011, 10:38 AM	#6
ScottB Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Alabama Posts: 438	A lot of people will cycle a tank with a fish or two, or a single raw shrimp, or a few drops of ammonium chloride and produce more than enough ammonia to cycle. The way I understand it, if you have a huge ammonia spike, and huge bacterial growth to compensate for it, when that ammonia load is gone, the aerobic bacteria population will decrease accordingly. Same goes for nitrite and anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, I don't know what the benefit of growing that bacterial population to excessive numbers, just to let it die off again. Let me say that this is just my OPINION based my experience. I could be way off the mark. __________________ What's the point of havin' a rapier wit if I can't use it to stab people? --Jeph Jacques Current Tank Info: 60g Solana XL - Mixed Reef

12/02/2011, 10:44 AM	#8
ScottB Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Alabama Posts: 438	By the way, HUGE ammonia spikes can be very stressfull to aquatic life when cycling with live animals and/or live rock. Also, if you don't run the skimmer and clean it often, you run the risk of your living room smelling like a fish market for a week or more. Decaying matter on the dry rock stinks to high heaven. __________________ What's the point of havin' a rapier wit if I can't use it to stab people? --Jeph Jacques Current Tank Info: 60g Solana XL - Mixed Reef

12/02/2011, 10:12 AM	#4
aarond21 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 109	Thanks to you both for the info.

12/02/2011, 10:20 AM	#5
RubberFrog Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 286	It seems counter productive to run a skimmer on a new tank. The skimmer is pulling out the very waste you want to break down and create ammonia with. more waste=more ammonia=more bacteria

12/02/2011, 10:43 AM	#7
RubberFrog Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 286	I think you're right on with that. Which leaves us trying to decide what is the right balance between too little and too much.

12/02/2011, 11:58 AM	#10
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	What salt mix? Some, like Reef Crystals, come with organics already added, which may be skimmed out. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

12/02/2011, 01:01 PM	#12
aarond21 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 109	I used reef crystals. As for the rock its a mix of some fiji I had and some I ordered from reefcleaners.org.

12/02/2011, 03:52 PM	#13
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	If the rock does have dead organisms on it, I'd definitely skim 24/7 from day 1. If it is mined dead rock, then I'd still skim, but at the start that will primarily be for aeration only. People forget that a huge benefit of skimmers is aeration. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Reading all these skimming/overskimming posts is confusing me!!	Jay1982	Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment	20	05/05/2008 03:53 PM
Skimming faster vs. skimming cleaner.	dascharisma	SPS Keepers	7	01/25/2006 03:41 PM
Skim Wet or Skim Dry - and tell us why!	NexDog	Reef Discussion	8	01/23/2006 06:52 PM
To Skim or not to Skim...	JasandJules	Mantis Shrimp	2	05/23/2005 02:00 AM