How long can I leave the lights out?

[chazman113]

I have a 45 gallon reef filled with soft corals (leathers, zoas, mushrooms, ect). I have a persistent hair algae problem in which I find little hot spots and have to clean them off every few weeks. My question is, can I scrub it with a toothbrush in the tank, try to siphon it out and then leave the lights off for a few days so it doesn't create new colonies or do I need to physically take the rocks out and do it? It seems like whenever a new "hot spot" is created, it will never really go away. How long can I leave the lights off before hurting the coral (See stock below).

I've also had the idea of using only the blue light for a week or so, but I'm not sure if the corals will get what they need. Has anyone tried that? I have an LED setup with blue and white lights (See Equipment below). At most, I've only ever ran the white light for about 6 hours a day and the blue for 12.

The only other idea I've had to to remove the poor clownfish, put them in another tank so I can put 0 nutrients back in the system.

Tank Equipment:
45g high
Evolution LED Light 120w 1G [20K]
Aquac Remora Skimmer /w Overflow
DIY Auto top-off /w 0ppm RODI water
Aquafuge on reverse lighting schedule
Hydor Koralia #3 and Nano pumps

Parameters:
81 deg F
Specific Gravity 1.024
Alk 7dKh (little low, I know)
Calcium 375 ppm

Stock:
2 Small Amphiprion Ocellaris
Various Snails and Small Hermits
2 Leather coral colonies
Various Zoas and Palys
Various Mushrooms
4 Stalks of torch coral
Chaeto in fuge

[Ron Reefman]

1) You can't leave the lights off long enough to kill hairy algae. That only works for cyano bacteria and it just cures the symptom not the cause.
2) Leaving on only your actinics will work great for growing algae.
3) You need to get a hairy algae eating fish. My yellow tang and lawnmower blennie keep my tank completely free of hairy algae.
4) Are you exporting algae from your refugium? If algae is growing in the DT, I hope you are growing even more in the refugium, after all, that's what it's for!
5) Algae needs light, phosphate and nitrates to grow. Cutting the lights is the least effective method for dealing with algae. What are your phosphate and nitrate levels? How are you exporting those algae foods? Does your refugium have a DSB for nitrate reduction? Consider a simple to build diy coil denitrator. I have both and my nitrate level is always zero (even after not doing a water change for 2 months). How about a GFO reactor to reduce phosphates?

[chazman113]

Good tip about the hair algae. I won't funk with the lights that much in that case. I'll look into a lawnmower blenny, there aren't any good lfs around here so I might have to order it. My nitrates are undetectable and I don't have a phosphate kit. The only thing that could be putting phosphates into the water is fish food I suppose. I don't think there is anything I can do about that as I've cut feeding to the bone for the poor clowns. Once a day and just a pinch. As I said my make up and change water is 0ppm coming out.

[chazman113]

What about scraping H/A in the tank while siphoning, will that work or cause more proliferation?

[Ron Reefman]

I had a bit of a hair algae issue in an previous system I had, and I found it seemed to pull off the rocks in nice clumps. It did leave some behind, but it didn't seem to grow back nearly as well and often not at all. But that could also be that the new growth was more to the liking of some of the inverts or fish? You could also consider a mithrax crab (emerald crab). Some people don't like them but I've got several in my Reef tank and 2 in the nem tank and they eat algae too. I actually had a mithrax hanging from a sheet of nori that was in a clip hanging in the middle of the tank for the fish.

I don't think scraping or brushing off the algae will cause it to spread, especially if you siphon it out as you go. Don't get discouraged if it grows back. Just go after it again and again. I found I just had less and less as time went by. Good luck.

[chazman113]

Yea I used to take the rocks out and surgically scrape the HA off, sometimes I would just clip the whole section of rock off. Now that I have many corals growing its getting harder to take rocks out without disturbing things.

I've tie wrapped a toothbrush to a dow rod and I'm going to get my wife to follow my scraping with the siphon. I'm also going to get a lawnmower blenny.

What kind of photoperiod would be optimal to keep soft corals alive and still put the least light out?

I was thinking 10hr blue 4hr blue/white

Time will tell if it works.

[zigzag1]

Nutirents are the souce of your problem. GFO is your friend. It has made reefing so much easier than 20 years ago..

[chazman113]

http://www.marinedepot.com/Two_Littl...TL4111-vi.html

So basically get this, put it in a bag? I have been putting carbon in a bag at the feed for the fuge, should I just put it there?

[chazman113]

Did some research and here is my idea....

Buy a phosban reactor, carbon and GFO.

Fill reactor with 50g GFO and 100g carbon

Tee off my fuge pump to get 30-40 gph off a 150 gph pump

Lose my aqua c remora skimmer as it hardly ever returns anything and its loud anyway, sell it on ebay.

Thoughts?

[redneckgearhead]

I fought HA for over a year and finally won the battle. I used 1/4" plastic tubing to siphon the HA out during water changes. I spent hundreds of dollars on animals that would eat HA and NONE OF THEM would touch it. I would replace the skimmer not remove it. You want every bit of help with nutrient removal. I finally built an Algae scrubber and it harnesses the nutrient removing power of HA for good instead of bad. lol Good luck.

[newtank]

Ron Reefman's response was spot on. I also used to take rocks out; I think it just caused more issues constantly taking rock out. It usually grew back even faster. Instead I would hold my siphon tube in my hand and use my thumb and pointer finger knuckle to pinch the algae while siphoning, this was done in conjunction with adding 100 micron filter socks changed every three days, one on the skimmer effluent, and found out that the RO water bought from Culligans had 25 PPM TDS, bought a 5 stage BRS RO DI. tons and tons of GHA just started dyeing off and stopped growing back.

[chazman113]

Yea sounds like I'm pretty much doing that.

I guess my choice is whether to try and get my skimmer working better (doesn't really return much) or buy a phosphate reactor. Keep in mind I have the fuge with chaeto as well.

Skimmer / Fuge
Reactor / Fuge
Skimmer / Reactor / Fuge (I dont think I even have enough space on the back for that!)

[windyridge]

Be careful with algae blennies. Mine ate a few of my softies. He got sold back to the LFS. He also only did a minimal job on HA. Now in my new tank I have a filter bag of GFO, and zero phosphates because I make my own fish food and try not to put anything in the tank that has it. So far so good. Even the old rocks with a small amount of HA are clean now. In my old tank I did scrub with a toothbrush but could not always siphon. I found that it did not comeback. I am sure the source of my phosphate was old live rock which is why I still use GFO in my new tank.

[chazman113]

Originally Posted by windyridge

Be careful with algae blennies. Mine ate a few of my softies. He got sold back to the LFS. He also only did a minimal job on HA. Now in my new tank I have a filter bag of GFO, and zero phosphates because I make my own fish food and try not to put anything in the tank that has it. So far so good. Even the old rocks with a small amount of HA are clean now. In my old tank I did scrub with a toothbrush but could not always siphon. I found that it did not comeback. I am sure the source of my phosphate was old live rock which is why I still use GFO in my new tank.

So you just use GFO in a bag and don't have a reactor? I was thinkin of putting it in the inlet of my fuge. Should that work? Can I just mix some carbon in the bag as well?

[windyridge]

Right and so far it works. People do just use the bags but it is not as efficient as a reactor. If I find it stops working, I will get a reactor. Mine is in the inlet of the fuge right in the filter sock.

[chazman113]

Originally Posted by windyridge

Right and so far it works. People do just use the bags but it is not as efficient as a reactor. If I find it stops working, I will get a reactor. Mine is in the inlet of the fuge right in the filter sock.

Cool, I'll try that first. What GFO do you use? I was looking at 2 little fishes brand.

[windyridge]

Fosters and Smith Phospure. I think most brands are similar, some clump more than others. This got a good review and I needed some stuff from F&S. It came with a filter bag stuck inside the jar and was reasonably priced.

[chazman113]

Do you use a skimmer at all? My tank would be much quieter without a skimmer and I could use the profits of selling it to fund the new phosphate reactor adventure.

[windyridge]

Yes I find that for me it is essential to the quality and clarity of my water. I also have a refugium with chaeto.

[lokii_37]

You can buy bulk GFO from bulkreefsupply for cheap.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by chazman113

Do you use a skimmer at all? My tank would be much quieter without a skimmer and I could use the profits of selling it to fund the new phosphate reactor adventure.

Sell your old skimmer, or put in storage for a QT or emergency. Look for a good used skimmer. There are people getting out of the hobby or upgrading all the time. Check for a local club (ours has lots of great deals), or Craigslist, or used equipment at your LFS. There is no reason why a skimmer needs to make noise. Mine is gravity fed 600gph and has a recirculation pump in the sump, and dumps the return water in the sump. It hardly makes a sound and I get a gallon of semi wet skimmate every 2 weeks or so.

As for GFO, any brand is better than not using it while you have a HA problem. I wouldn't recomend running GFO and Carbon in the same reactor. I only have 1 reactor plumbed into my system and it hardly ever gets used. I ran GFO when back when I had a HA problem. No more algae, no more GFO. I also use it to run carbon whenever 2 of my corals start a war, just to get the toxins released by the corals out of the water. Move a coral, war is over, no more carbon.

You can do GFO in a media bag and it can work. Keep it loose in the bag and put it where there will be good flow by it. You could also get a DI unit from a RO/DI supplier and run your GFO or carbon thru that. It's much cheaper than a reactor that has somebody's brand name on it. And you might be able to hang it above the sump rathe than putting it in the sump, given your limited space.

[zigzag1]

I run my GFO in a bag that sits on a little eggcrate shelf between sump baffels. Still very effective and extremely fast and easy to change the media. I hate reactors with a passion, pita to change media - meaning I change it less. The second time a reactor dumped the media into the bottom of my sump, it went in the trash, in small pieces. Mesh media bag FTW!