New Equipment Advice

[mess7777]

Hi all,

My aquarium is what I would call alright but slowly getting worse. My euphyllia corals are slowly wasting away,receding and bleaching zoas and montipora are relatively happy with other SPS and LPS in between but far from fantastic. If I want to not lose everything in the next few months I will need to make some changes. I want to know what will be the best first step.

Water parameters at the moment.
Phosphate - .25
Nitrates 5-10ppm
Salinity 1.025
ph 7.8 last check, usually more like 8.1-8.2
Haven't checked calcium/Mg in a while but I don't add any and it is generally average to a little low(replenished by water changes and nothing else).
Temp - 79

I believe my problems areas are
1)Flow - currently using the return pump (Maxi jet 1200) and 1 Koralia 4. I had 2 before but the flow was pretty intense and seemed pretty harsh on the euphyllias. I turned it off to give them a chance to recover. I have a lot of trouble creating turbulent flow, so although there was lots of flow it seems to always be the same direction....especially near the bottom which is where I have my euphyllias.

2)Lighting - I have 252 watts of LED lighting, however it is a locally made contraption that may be underpowered and the colors are not up to par with other LEDs I have seen.

3)Skimming - same guy that made the lights made the skimmer. I do get some skimmate build up. It is dark green to light brown but doesn't stink which makes me think it may be a piece of crap. It's also extremely noisy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FKgy7iaOyw

This video gives an idea but everything has deteriorated beyond this video and all the frogspawn, hammers and anchors have receded considerably, as well as bleaching. They open up for a couple of hours but by the time the lights turn off for the day they are almost completely closed. Lights are on for approx 8 hours/day.

I no longer have the powder brown and yellow tang so don't worry about telling me I have too many tangs.

I made so many rookie mistakes over the past year and now I cannot afford nor do I want to throw money away needlessly.

Now finally, the question. Which of these items will be the best for helping my situation? Flow, skimmer or lighting?

[phenom5]

I have no experience with LEDs so I'm not sure about the lighting situation, although, from what you've said it sounds like you lighting is too strong maybe? The fact that you say your Eupylllias are open early in the day, and close up later on in your lighting cycle makes me wonder. Also bleaching/ pale colors tends to be from too much lighting. Like I said, I'm not an LED expert, but maybe try a shortened lighting cycle for a few weeks, and see what effect that has on things.

How big is your tank? Sump?

For flow, I'd replace the Koralia 4 with 2 or 3 smaller models. That will give you good, turbulent flow throughout the tank, and you corals won't get blasted by one, big powerhead.

I would definitely pick up a quality skimmer. A quiet, efficient skimmer is a must IMHO.

I notice you mention Ca & Mg, but no Alk. Alk is one of the most important, and often over looked parameters, especially with SPS. I would test Ca, Alk, and Mg daily over the course of several weeks to get a better picture of how your tank is using those, and to see if your water changes are keeping things in line. Automating my dosing to keep my Alk stable was one of the best things I've done for my tank.

Your PO4 is high, so I'd look into bringing that down. Some sort of phosphate media, that you'll probably need to change fairly often at first, and work to get it down.

How are you testing phosphate?

[Floowid]

I think phenom5 hit the major points. I agree 100%.

One thing I would add is that replacing things like Calcium, Alk, and Mg through water changes only is a short term strategy at best. As soon as stony corals, coralline, snails, and other things start using up calcium you can't replace it with just water changes.

[mess7777]

I am running Rowa to get my phosphates down. I am also encouraging cheato and HA in my sump which I harvest frequently for nutrient export.

Luckily my lights have a dimmer. I have decreased the intensity as of Sunday so I will see how things react over the next few days.

I'll need to pick a new Alk test, I have dKH which usually is 10-11, but again I haven't tested for a couple of weeks.

I would have thought my SPS would suffer most from these parameters, not my euphyllia? MY birdnest is doing very well, it has grown and polyps extend fully. I also have a couple montipora which are doing well, particularly a red plating monti. Why wouldn't these suffer as well if the problem was Ca, Mg, Alk?

I don't even want to think about dosing at this point, just another piece of equipment to buy. If I can simply maintain what I currently have it would be great, then once I am stable I'll think about adding new things. I really think I need to think about the skimmer/flow/lighting concerns before moving onto new problems!

I'll do a full battery of testing tonight and report the results.

[Floowid]

Do you have any fish/inverts that could be picking on the euphyllia? I once put a beautiful frogspawn in my tank only to watch it deteriorate over the course of a week. The hammer on the other side of the tank remained looking fantastic. I knew none of the fish in my tank could be picking on the coral, and began to suspect a gorilla or xanthid crab. I just happened to look at the tank one lucky time to see my Blue Devil Damsel smack my frogspawn as hard as it could. It seems I placed the new coral in his "territory", and he was trying to get it out of there. He managed to tear it up behond repair. He also killed some clove polyps, some xenia (in which he did me a favor), and unseated two zoa colonies. After that, up until he died, I could not place anything new in his territory.

So long story short, watch the receding colonies for a while and see if you notice anything bothering them, expect the unexpected.

[mess7777]

I have stared at them long and hard to try and see some signs. Nothing is bothering them. My sailfin looks in there at times and picks at the empty water above, my only theory here is that they are releasing the zoo* algae and it's eating it? It never actually touches the coral though.

I have an emerald crab that has come near a couple times but only cleans junk off the skeleton and has never approached the tissue itself. The problems also started before the emerald crab was around.

The most receded one seems to be pooping out brown strings from it's mouth, but I am not convinced that it is brown jelly disease as it's only occasionally.

PITA this problem!

[mess7777]

Well I guess my coral actually are using some Ca. I tested again last night and found my Ca below 400. First time it has ever tested that low. dKH was at 8, down from 11-12 last month. Also, my nitrate is actually 20ppm. Not super high, but my test from the weekend must have been off.

I replaced Rowa-Phos and also reduced photo period by 1 hour starting today.

I added a calcium supplement(SeaChem) to bring it back up. I did add this before testing Mg so I will test that tonight.

I also added some buffer to bring the pH up from 7.8. I don't really like the stuff but I have it and don't want it to go to waste. Once it runs out I will explore other options for keeping pH up.

Interesting the dimming of the lights seemed to keep my frogspawn a little happier, but seemed to annoy a torch and an anchor. Can't win sometimes I guess.

[map95003]

I haven't read the entire thread, what kind of LED lighting r u using? I have frogspawns / hammers the size of basket balls and I found that when I frag them and put frags under LEDs (I have BoostLED Par30 bulbs over my frag tank), they start to lose color after about a week. I don't keep frags long enough to experience any die-off. Might be the type of LEDs and the intensity. I also agree, you need to use another method for stabalizing your parms.

[phenom5]

I would highly recommend dosing a 2 part additive (I use Bulk Reef Supply's 2 part, but B-Ionic and C-Balance work well also). Calcium and Alkalinity are related, dosing for just one can cause the other to go out of whack. BRS's 2 part also help maintain pH levels. You don't have to automate the dosing, it's (really, really) nice to have, but manual dosing once or twice a day works too.

20ppm for NO3 is a little high, although I wouldn't think that would have much of an effect on LPS. What's your water change schedule? Water source? It could be from the reduced flow also. Dead spots, or low flow areas could be allowing detritus to build up, and result in your NO3 creeping up.

The only other thing I would caution is to not react too much. You've just dimmed the lights on Sunday, so it's hard to say if that is causing the reaction of your corals, or if it's something else, or if they just need a few days to adjust.

[mess7777]

thanks folks. I will keep an eye on things and keep testing over the next couple of weeks. It seems today they are even less happy. Trying to do too much at once I suppose.

[mess7777]

did some testing last night.

Ca 440
pH - still 7.8
Phosphate - a more yellow version of .25, so slightly down i believe. API test kits kinda useless unless you have a LOT of phosphates.
Didn't have time to do more, but will test again later in the weekend.

One anchor is pretty much toast, doubt it has a chance.

The other struggling frogspawn looks about the same and the anchor neat it also looks to be no better or worse.

Now it's a wait and see. I am going to take some pics to better track progression/regression.

Also will try and keep on top of the parameters.

[GPB]

I wouldn't do anything to adjust your ph. Get your Alk and Cal balanced in the right place and your ph will be what it will be based in the CO2 concentration in the water.

I think you Nitrate and PO4 are your bigger problems. I would do some a couple largish water changes. Maybe 25% weekly. I would add the GFO. I would start a supplementation scheme for Alk and Cal. I would also test Mg and raise it up if it is low. You don't need to test for it often as it doesn't generally get used up very quickly.

[mess7777]

Thanks for the advice. I have had a constant struggle with Phos and Nitrates since my start. Many mistakes, no RODI, crappy skimmer, wrong lighting in the fuge so cheato didn't grow, overstocking, going to fast. You name it I did it.

I am really thinking about running some carbon to help remove some organics as well since my skimmer is not too great and my sump was poorly designed and makes most in sump skimmers impossible to use. I could have some nasty crap left in my system from several months of tap water.

More to come.

[GPB]

FWIW: I have a very small 10g sump with a fuge included. I use a Remora HOB skimmer and it has worked well maximizing the little space I do have.