Rebooting my tank after hydroid plague

The Escaped Ape · 02/01/2012, 06:30 AM

I've had a range of problems with my tank since I set it up (original tank thread). However, though I overcame the crinoloid isopod and Dictyota, the Myrionema hydroids proved indestructible. Various suggested ways of dealing with them (Pteraeolidia ianthina nudibranchs, African Flameback Angel, physical removal by scraping them off the rock, covering them with kalk, dosing with Zeospur2) didn't work. These things have deep roots in the rock and seem to be pretty resilient.

So, in the end, I went for the approach where I removed what coral was salvageable from the rock, transferred it to frag plugs after painstakingly removing every last trace of hydroid stalk and put the rock in a tank in an unused bathroom, in the dark, for three months. This appears to have done the trick, in the sense that there is now no trace of life on the rock and very little coming off it in terms of mulm etc (I've done infrequent water changes, but otherwise relied on having first scrubbed the rock to remove most organic material and decent flow while it's sitting there in the dark). There is of course no guarantee that when I reuse the rock, a thousand hydroids won't pop up overnight, but I'm hopeful I've done what's necessary. However, the corals that I salvaged have now been there for months in some case with no hydroids appearing, so it does seem to be possible to beat them.

Some quick points on the hydroids:

- zoanthids appear to be able to outcompete them if you help by removing every trace of hydroid every time you see one of those little pom-poms appearing. They block the light from any tiny fragment of stalk left over;

- the most dangerous stage is when the hydroids start to grow into large clumps, because then they start breaking off, floating round the tank and rooting in a new piece of rock. Don't go for the approach that some recommend where you leave them because "quite often they disappear all by themselves"; and

- once coral is removed from the rock, it's possible to painstakingly remove the hydroid stalks from them with a pair of tweezers, if you do this both underwater and out of water.

I'm now approaching the stage where I want to fish the rock out and start again. Currently, in the main tank, I have the DSB still intact, a range of zoanthid colonies doing very well, some LPS doing OK (a Blasto, a couple of Acans, one chalice), a few mushroom corals and Ricordias, yuma and florida and my very pretty purple soft coral. I've lost all my SPS and most of my LPS (a couple of acros, a couple of montis, 3 chalices, one acan), for reasons I don't properly understand. I tested, but didn't track down what I was doing wrong.

I have a number of decisions to make, but before I ask for opinions about those, I'd like to put on the record that:

I now understand why some people originally told me that the marvelous diversity of wild live rock was overrated. I can't be sure the hydroids came in on LR (they probably came in on a coral given the timing of their first appearance), but I can see the argument for starting with live rock rather less bursting with life. I'm now looking forward to creating an aquascape with my rock that's been curing for months in the dark.

I'm also starting to understand why some people go for bare bottomed tanks, not just for the nutrient export, but also for the extra space it gives you in a shallow tank, the lack of sand storms and, I'm guessing expense of sand (though that money's already gone for me).

You can probably tell from those last points that I'm thinking of ditching the sand bed and going bare bottom. But this isn't an easy decision, for a couple of reasons.

One is that it will be a lot of work to remove the sand bed. That's not such a biggie, as I imagine it will be a couple of days hard work to remove the old bed and set up the new aquascape (I plan to go for something rather more organised this time, less free form). Tiring, but achievable. I can make up a lot of water, reuse some of the old water, and probably get away with a minimal mini-cycle.

The second more crucial hesitation I have is that I'm now planning to go for mainly soft coral stocking. Given that I don't know why my SPS and most of my LPS did so badly, I'm not about to try that route again. Maybe if I achieve success in the medium term with the softie tank, I might try a hard coral or two (and I have some small LPS which will be my canaries), but for now I'm going to focus on corallimorpharians, zoas and other softies.

This implies a tank which is not as nutrient poor as an SPS tank. Over the past few months of relative neglect, the zoas in the tank have done well. I expect this might be less the case with a BB tank. I know they need clean water, but possibly not as clean as Acros etc. I have an overpowered skimmer which might exacerbate this problem still further. I also need to consider whether my Strombus snails and McCoskers Wrasse are going to suffer due to the lack of sand.

However, there are obvious attractions. I can have random flow all over the tank, including near the bottom, even if I don't dial the power up too high (with some corals that prefer less powerful flow). I will also add about 3 inches of depth to my aquascaping.

Which has made me consider whether I can address my low nutrient concern by adding more fish to the tank. Currently, all I have is an Ocellaris pair, a McCoskers Wrasse and an African Flameback Angel. The tank is 36"x24"x18", 67 US gallons, with a couple of adjustable Tunze Nanostreams, a Super Reef Octopus 100 Internal Skimmer and GRC and GFO reactors. I'm wondering if I could increase the stocking quite considerably, by adding maybe 2-3 more active fish.

My choices seem to be:

Tangs - not really, the tank's too small. The tangs that might, at a push, be OK (Kole, Yellow eye bristletooth), I don't like the look of.

Damsel - one of the less aggressive types? Yellow tail Damsel would be very pretty (but would it see the African Flameback as a competitor given the similar coloration and this lead to one fish not making it?).

Anthias - the Princess and Sunset Anthias are supposedly better for smaller tanks. If I were to go for a single specimen, could I consider another type like the Lyretail, or the Dispar, which I understand is better for shallow tanks? I've not seen the Princess and Sunset available here, but haven't been looking either to be honest. The more regular feedings might also help keep the softies happy (side question: would spreading 3 feedings over 4-5 hours be too close together? On a weekday, that's the time frame I have between coming home and going to bed).

Wrasses - would lack of sand bed would be an issue?

Dwarf Angel - I'm assuming the answer is a straight "no" in a tank my size, but would adding a Dwarf Angel very different in coloration to my African Flameback be an option?

Chromis - as a single specimen, to avoid the attrition seen with this fish when added in groups.

As you can tell from my list, I need to avoid anything too docile if they're to avoid getting beaten up by the African Flameback, but also want to avoid anything that's going to cause too much trouble.

So, to sum up an overly long post:

1. Does the overall plan (bare bottom with softies, slightly more heavily stocked) sound feasible?
2. What do people think of me adding more fish, and what do they think my options are?

Please bear in mind that there are some fish I can't seem to get hold of here (I live in Japan) (e.g. Midas Blennies) and some are so expensive that I can't buy them, much as I'd love to (e.g. Rhomboid Wrasse).

The Escaped Ape · 02/26/2012, 04:29 AM

Well, the last post was so wordy, it was like the War and Peace of RC threads. This time I'm going to let the pictures do more of the talking!

Yesterday my reefing friend and mentor came around to help me get rid of my sand bed - where would we be in this hobby without patient and generous friends (he also gave me some live rock and a lot of my corals originated in his tank)! I'd spent the evening before drilling and gluing/fixing with 2 part putty. Here was the initial result!

Now with the coral and fish back in (I also took the opportunity of a new aquascape to add 4 new fish - one Fathead Anthias, one Green Chromis, one Royal Gramma and one little ORA Yellow Assessor).

Here's the Royal Gramma.

The Yellow Assessor seems to have a kink in his tail. Does anyone know whether this is the sort of thing that will heal?

Here's the Fathead Anthias.

And the Green Chomis. Common as anything, I know, but I love the coloration.

Shot of the Royal Gramma and Yellow Assessor together.

The Escaped Ape · 02/26/2012, 04:33 AM

Now some random coral shots.

A lot of the zoas got moved to plastic frag plugs when I was battling the hydroid plague. I'll now have to find permanent homes for them.

The Escaped Ape · 02/26/2012, 04:48 AM

Now, does anyone know what these cheap coral from the LFS might be? I paid $2 for the lot, but they're all tiny, so I don't know how well they'll do. Apologies if some of the photos aren't pin sharp - all are about half the size of an American quarter.

This looks to me like a baby Fungia.

Is this maybe a Pavona?

I thought this was a chalice to begin with, but is it another Fungia of some sort?

Another Pavona? From a distance it just looks brown with neon green pin pricks, but this a close up.

This one's weird. Mostly white, but with a red background. Hard to get a clear shot of. I thought maybe a chalice, but it's quite thin as well.

Finally, a bad shot of something green. Need to get a direct shot, but it's in a bad position to do so!

Sugar Magnolia · 02/27/2012, 08:31 AM

Can't help with the last few coral ID's but the first one is a baby fungia. I'd place the little guy on your BB.

Everything is looking really nice Tom! I noticed you have a flameback angel in the tank. I added one about a month ago. Love that fish!!

csmfish · 02/27/2012, 12:49 PM

What kind of lights are you using? Love the color if the pics are correct.

MDP · 02/27/2012, 04:51 PM

Tank is looking very good Tom. That's some great growth on those Zoas as well. The blue and gold ones look really impressive
.

Misled · 02/27/2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

Can't help with the last few coral ID's but the first one is a baby fungia. I'd place the little guy on your BB.

I agree it's a baby fungia, but if it's "posted" on the rock, I'd leave it. It won't move around that way. The others look like they have eyes, (at least most of them), and that would make me think challice. My pavonas don't have eyes. And thanks, now I can say I read W&P.

The Escaped Ape · 02/28/2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

Can't help with the last few coral ID's but the first one is a baby fungia. I'd place the little guy on your BB.

Everything is looking really nice Tom! I noticed you have a flameback angel in the tank. I added one about a month ago. Love that fish!!

Thanks Adrienne! The Flameback is definitely a real beauty. Not quite as cute as when he was a baby, but the colors are still really amazing. Here's a shot from when I first got him (oooh, he's going to be so embarrassed when I tell him I showed you his baby photos).

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmfish

What kind of lights are you using? Love the color if the pics are correct.

Thank you! I have a 150w DE Radium bulb in there, plus 2 x Giesemann Coral Pink and 2 x Actinic plus. I'm ironically about to move to 2 x actinic plus and 2 x pure actinics, to get even more pop.

Actually, the tank is looking quite different now it's bare bottom - much bluer and the colors are looking much nicer. I don't know if it's because we did a big water change as we took out the sand bed, because we cleaned the glass really thoroughly from inside with a towel, or because the light reflects differently off the glass bottom than it did off the sand...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDP

Tank is looking very good Tom. That's some great growth on those Zoas as well. The blue and gold ones look really impressive
.

Thanks Matt - huge amount thanks to your help and guidance. I really don't think it would have been nearly as smooth, calm and easy without you being such a help! Also thanks long term for your generosity with coral - those blues and yellows will get fragged and handed back ASAP given they came from you in the first place!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misled

I agree it's a baby fungia, but if it's "posted" on the rock, I'd leave it. It won't move around that way. The others look like they have eyes, (at least most of them), and that would make me think challice. My pavonas don't have eyes. And thanks, now I can say I read W&P.

Hmmm. Thanks Misled. I will probably try and frag off the chalices/pavona and fix them to the rock work where they can sit in a fixed position without being in full light. That will likely mean a smaller base for that baby fungia (the red/white possible chalice is on the same small fragment of rock). I may combine yours and Adrienne's suggestions somehow and place it in a way that that piece of rock is fixed in place on the bottom of the tank...

Misled · 02/28/2012, 06:10 PM

Mine right after lights came on. You can see how high it is off the sandbed. This is to protect where the tissue meets the skeletal structure.

After feeding.

Fully open.

The Escaped Ape · 02/29/2012, 07:26 AM

Thanks Misled - useful to see. You have a nice looking fungia there. Good shots too.

02/01/2012, 06:30 AM	#1
The Escaped Ape In The Canopy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 1,098	Rebooting my tank after hydroid plague I've had a range of problems with my tank since I set it up (original tank thread). However, though I overcame the crinoloid isopod and Dictyota, the Myrionema hydroids proved indestructible. Various suggested ways of dealing with them (Pteraeolidia ianthina nudibranchs, African Flameback Angel, physical removal by scraping them off the rock, covering them with kalk, dosing with Zeospur2) didn't work. These things have deep roots in the rock and seem to be pretty resilient. So, in the end, I went for the approach where I removed what coral was salvageable from the rock, transferred it to frag plugs after painstakingly removing every last trace of hydroid stalk and put the rock in a tank in an unused bathroom, in the dark, for three months. This appears to have done the trick, in the sense that there is now no trace of life on the rock and very little coming off it in terms of mulm etc (I've done infrequent water changes, but otherwise relied on having first scrubbed the rock to remove most organic material and decent flow while it's sitting there in the dark). There is of course no guarantee that when I reuse the rock, a thousand hydroids won't pop up overnight, but I'm hopeful I've done what's necessary. However, the corals that I salvaged have now been there for months in some case with no hydroids appearing, so it does seem to be possible to beat them. Some quick points on the hydroids: - zoanthids appear to be able to outcompete them if you help by removing every trace of hydroid every time you see one of those little pom-poms appearing. They block the light from any tiny fragment of stalk left over; - the most dangerous stage is when the hydroids start to grow into large clumps, because then they start breaking off, floating round the tank and rooting in a new piece of rock. Don't go for the approach that some recommend where you leave them because "quite often they disappear all by themselves"; and - once coral is removed from the rock, it's possible to painstakingly remove the hydroid stalks from them with a pair of tweezers, if you do this both underwater and out of water. I'm now approaching the stage where I want to fish the rock out and start again. Currently, in the main tank, I have the DSB still intact, a range of zoanthid colonies doing very well, some LPS doing OK (a Blasto, a couple of Acans, one chalice), a few mushroom corals and Ricordias, yuma and florida and my very pretty purple soft coral. I've lost all my SPS and most of my LPS (a couple of acros, a couple of montis, 3 chalices, one acan), for reasons I don't properly understand. I tested, but didn't track down what I was doing wrong. I have a number of decisions to make, but before I ask for opinions about those, I'd like to put on the record that: I now understand why some people originally told me that the marvelous diversity of wild live rock was overrated. I can't be sure the hydroids came in on LR (they probably came in on a coral given the timing of their first appearance), but I can see the argument for starting with live rock rather less bursting with life. I'm now looking forward to creating an aquascape with my rock that's been curing for months in the dark. I'm also starting to understand why some people go for bare bottomed tanks, not just for the nutrient export, but also for the extra space it gives you in a shallow tank, the lack of sand storms and, I'm guessing expense of sand (though that money's already gone for me). You can probably tell from those last points that I'm thinking of ditching the sand bed and going bare bottom. But this isn't an easy decision, for a couple of reasons. One is that it will be a lot of work to remove the sand bed. That's not such a biggie, as I imagine it will be a couple of days hard work to remove the old bed and set up the new aquascape (I plan to go for something rather more organised this time, less free form). Tiring, but achievable. I can make up a lot of water, reuse some of the old water, and probably get away with a minimal mini-cycle. The second more crucial hesitation I have is that I'm now planning to go for mainly soft coral stocking. Given that I don't know why my SPS and most of my LPS did so badly, I'm not about to try that route again. Maybe if I achieve success in the medium term with the softie tank, I might try a hard coral or two (and I have some small LPS which will be my canaries), but for now I'm going to focus on corallimorpharians, zoas and other softies. This implies a tank which is not as nutrient poor as an SPS tank. Over the past few months of relative neglect, the zoas in the tank have done well. I expect this might be less the case with a BB tank. I know they need clean water, but possibly not as clean as Acros etc. I have an overpowered skimmer which might exacerbate this problem still further. I also need to consider whether my Strombus snails and McCoskers Wrasse are going to suffer due to the lack of sand. However, there are obvious attractions. I can have random flow all over the tank, including near the bottom, even if I don't dial the power up too high (with some corals that prefer less powerful flow). I will also add about 3 inches of depth to my aquascaping. Which has made me consider whether I can address my low nutrient concern by adding more fish to the tank. Currently, all I have is an Ocellaris pair, a McCoskers Wrasse and an African Flameback Angel. The tank is 36"x24"x18", 67 US gallons, with a couple of adjustable Tunze Nanostreams, a Super Reef Octopus 100 Internal Skimmer and GRC and GFO reactors. I'm wondering if I could increase the stocking quite considerably, by adding maybe 2-3 more active fish. My choices seem to be: Tangs - not really, the tank's too small. The tangs that might, at a push, be OK (Kole, Yellow eye bristletooth), I don't like the look of. Damsel - one of the less aggressive types? Yellow tail Damsel would be very pretty (but would it see the African Flameback as a competitor given the similar coloration and this lead to one fish not making it?). Anthias - the Princess and Sunset Anthias are supposedly better for smaller tanks. If I were to go for a single specimen, could I consider another type like the Lyretail, or the Dispar, which I understand is better for shallow tanks? I've not seen the Princess and Sunset available here, but haven't been looking either to be honest. The more regular feedings might also help keep the softies happy (side question: would spreading 3 feedings over 4-5 hours be too close together? On a weekday, that's the time frame I have between coming home and going to bed). Wrasses - would lack of sand bed would be an issue? Dwarf Angel - I'm assuming the answer is a straight "no" in a tank my size, but would adding a Dwarf Angel very different in coloration to my African Flameback be an option? Chromis - as a single specimen, to avoid the attrition seen with this fish when added in groups. As you can tell from my list, I need to avoid anything too docile if they're to avoid getting beaten up by the African Flameback, but also want to avoid anything that's going to cause too much trouble. So, to sum up an overly long post: 1. Does the overall plan (bare bottom with softies, slightly more heavily stocked) sound feasible? 2. What do people think of me adding more fish, and what do they think my options are? Please bear in mind that there are some fish I can't seem to get hold of here (I live in Japan) (e.g. Midas Blennies) and some are so expensive that I can't buy them, much as I'd love to (e.g. Rhomboid Wrasse). __________________ Tom Victoria Concordia Crescit Current Tank Info: Currently tankless

02/26/2012, 04:29 AM	#2
The Escaped Ape In The Canopy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 1,098	Now with photos! Well, the last post was so wordy, it was like the War and Peace of RC threads. This time I'm going to let the pictures do more of the talking! Yesterday my reefing friend and mentor came around to help me get rid of my sand bed - where would we be in this hobby without patient and generous friends (he also gave me some live rock and a lot of my corals originated in his tank)! I'd spent the evening before drilling and gluing/fixing with 2 part putty. Here was the initial result! Now with the coral and fish back in (I also took the opportunity of a new aquascape to add 4 new fish - one Fathead Anthias, one Green Chromis, one Royal Gramma and one little ORA Yellow Assessor). Here's the Royal Gramma. The Yellow Assessor seems to have a kink in his tail. Does anyone know whether this is the sort of thing that will heal? Here's the Fathead Anthias. And the Green Chomis. Common as anything, I know, but I love the coloration. Shot of the Royal Gramma and Yellow Assessor together. __________________ Tom Victoria Concordia Crescit Current Tank Info: Currently tankless

02/26/2012, 04:33 AM	#3
The Escaped Ape In The Canopy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 1,098	Now some random coral shots. A lot of the zoas got moved to plastic frag plugs when I was battling the hydroid plague. I'll now have to find permanent homes for them. __________________ Tom Victoria Concordia Crescit Current Tank Info: Currently tankless

02/26/2012, 04:48 AM	#4
The Escaped Ape In The Canopy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 1,098	Now, does anyone know what these cheap coral from the LFS might be? I paid $2 for the lot, but they're all tiny, so I don't know how well they'll do. Apologies if some of the photos aren't pin sharp - all are about half the size of an American quarter. This looks to me like a baby Fungia. Is this maybe a Pavona? I thought this was a chalice to begin with, but is it another Fungia of some sort? Another Pavona? From a distance it just looks brown with neon green pin pricks, but this a close up. This one's weird. Mostly white, but with a red background. Hard to get a clear shot of. I thought maybe a chalice, but it's quite thin as well. Finally, a bad shot of something green. Need to get a direct shot, but it's in a bad position to do so! __________________ Tom Victoria Concordia Crescit Current Tank Info: Currently tankless

02/27/2012, 08:31 AM	#5
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	Can't help with the last few coral ID's but the first one is a baby fungia. I'd place the little guy on your BB. Everything is looking really nice Tom! I noticed you have a flameback angel in the tank. I added one about a month ago. Love that fish!! __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

02/27/2012, 12:49 PM	#6
csmfish Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: VA Posts: 1,055	What kind of lights are you using? Love the color if the pics are correct.

02/27/2012, 04:51 PM	#7
MDP Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Dhaka, Bangladesh Posts: 473	Tank is looking very good Tom. That's some great growth on those Zoas as well. The blue and gold ones look really impressive .

02/28/2012, 06:10 PM	#10
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	Mine right after lights came on. You can see how high it is off the sandbed. This is to protect where the tissue meets the skeletal structure. After feeding. Fully open. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

02/29/2012, 07:26 AM	#11
The Escaped Ape In The Canopy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Taiwan Posts: 1,098	Thanks Misled - useful to see. You have a nice looking fungia there. Good shots too. __________________ Tom Victoria Concordia Crescit Current Tank Info: Currently tankless