When angels die - cant keep them alive???

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 08:32 AM

My last bi color, well, its on its half side jerking death bed, was in great shape, eating and everything but had a case of ick. It was the size of maybe a little bigger than a quarter. Was doing GREAT until this morning!? All ick was gone and breathing great before bed. No changes but 100% water changes everyday. Then, one week out, and I wake up and it is in death twitches? This is the 5th-6th bi-color and they will not stay alive???

What is going on??????

Seriously, who sells bi colors that live? They HAVE to be cyanide-ed or something, this is ridiculous!

jamesdean3 · 02/05/2012, 08:34 AM

are you QTing them and treating for ich before DT? and 100% water changes, really? is that even possible?

jimrawr · 02/05/2012, 08:44 AM

100% water changes cant be good IMO.

bamf25 · 02/05/2012, 09:21 AM

Bi colors have a history of being captured with cyanide. It is not uncommon to lose a fish for unknown reasons because of this.

michaelr · 02/05/2012, 09:29 AM

why not try using a dip in methylene blue? i believe it helps with cyanide poisoning

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesdean3

are you QTing them and treating for ich before DT? and 100% water changes, really? is that even possible?

I wasnt before because I heard they are fragile and now, this one, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimrawr

100% water changes cant be good IMO.

In a QT Tank??

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamf25

Bi colors have a history of being captured with cyanide. It is not uncommon to lose a fish for unknown reasons because of this.

Do you know of a source they may know for sure thier batches are not getting poisoned?

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelr

why not try using a dip in methylene blue? i believe it helps with cyanide poisoning

I had mine in .4 copper for a week. I have heard meth had copper, was trying to avoid copper altogether in case. Made another thread with that question about copper in meth.

I just want a Bi-color

Casey8 · 02/05/2012, 09:56 AM

It happened to me too, I couldn't keep the bi-color angel alive. I tried 5 times already.

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 10:00 AM

It is interesting that all of mine, thier heads turn black just before they croak. Did yours do this?

michaelr · 02/05/2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmfish

I had mine in .4 copper for a week. I have heard meth had copper, was trying to avoid copper altogether in case. Made another thread with that question about copper in meth.

I just want a Bi-color

Im fairly sure that it does not contain copper. besides, i never add methyl to my qt tank directly because it can kill beneficial bacteria. i do sw dips (take water from qt tank and pour some methyl in) Methyl helps get oxygen to the cells again.(that is how cyanide kills fish) i mean cmon its worth a shot. ive dipped all my fish and none of them have been harmed by it. besides the dyed water helps calm the fish anyways

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelr

Im fairly sure that it does not contain copper. besides, i never add methyl to my qt tank directly because it can kill beneficial bacteria. i do sw dips (take water from qt tank and pour some methyl in) Methyl helps get oxygen to the cells again.(that is how cyanide kills fish) i mean cmon its worth a shot. ive dipped all my fish and none of them have been harmed by it. besides the dyed water helps calm the fish anyways

Oh, he/she is in it now, but, was just trying to take the best course of action. I had the fish in a bath of .3 copper and meth. I was so stressed, i added AquaNova, then relaxed and found Aqua nova sucks up copper and I was like what the!?!?!? So, threw that batch out, went with clean water, another tank ( to make sure no ick transfers) and lots of meth. Thats where I am now. How long to keep in it? Bi is swimming around casually now and not keeling over but it is too dark to tell if it is breathing normal or not.

michaelr · 02/05/2012, 11:20 AM

not very long i only dip for 30 seconds to a minute. kordon suggests only 10 seconds at 50 ppm. but thats at a higher concentration heres their instructions:

SUGGESTED TREATMENT PROCEDURES
The following procedures are suggested for freshwater and marine aquariums and ponds. Methylene Blue is removed by activated carbon filtration. It will also be absorbed by porous materials such as rock, coral and wood. The product is best used in bare aquariums or ponds, especially if they are new. Methylene Blue may permanently color the silicone sealant in aquariums. At the conclusion of all treatments, a partial or complete water change should be made and activated carbon replaced in the filter.

As an aid in reversal of nitrite (NO2-) or cyanide (CN-) poisoning of marine and freshwater aquarium fishes:
(a) Remove carbon filter and continue to operate with mechanical filter media throughout the treatment period.
(b) Add 1 teaspoon of 2.303% Methylene Blue per 10 gallons of water. This produces a concentration of 3 ppm. Continue the treatment for 3 to 5 days.
(c) Make a water change as noted and replace the filter carbon at the conclusion of the treatment. parasite protozoans."

For use as a dip for cyanide poisoning:
(a) Prepare a nonmetallic container of sufficient size to contain the fish to be treated by adding water similar to the original aquarium.
(b) Add 5 teaspoons (24.65 ml) per 3 gallons of water. This produces a concentration of 50 ppm. It is not recommended that the concentration be increased beyond 50 ppm.
(c) Place fishes to be treated in this solution for no longer than 10 seconds.
(d) Return fish to original aquarium.

albano · 02/05/2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmfish

This is the 5th-6th bi-color and they will not stay alive???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey8

I couldn't keep the bi-color angel alive. I tried 5 times already.

At what point do you stop buying a fish, with such a poor track record?

IMO...3 strikes and they're OUT!...I would suggest after 2 tries, spend the $ and get the 3rd from Diver's Den or from another reefer that's had it for awhile.

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelr

not very long i only dip for 30 seconds

I think I will go with option one for now and do tank transfers for a little while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by albano

At what point do you stop buying a fish, with such a poor track record?

IMO...3 strikes and they're OUT!...I would suggest after 2 tries, spend the $ and get the 3rd from Diver's Den or from another reefer that's had it for awhile.

When they stop dying!

If there was another fish that looked like it, I would buy it. It is just a fish, inhales regular salt water like the rest. Gotta be someone somewhere that sells a good one!? If they have one in divers den, I would do it.

randomfishguy85 · 02/05/2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

If there was another fish that looked like it, I would buy it

Well there is centropyge joculator. looks just like a bicolor, just much more expensive. much more hardy though.

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomfishguy85

Well there is centropyge joculator. looks just like a bicolor, just much more expensive. much more hardy though.

Meh, chump change!!

Arkayology · 02/05/2012, 02:06 PM

Are you buying from the same LFS or different stores? IMO, I would try a different supplier.

Toddrtrex · 02/05/2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albano

At what point do you stop buying a fish, with such a poor track record?

IMO...3 strikes and they're OUT!...I would suggest after 2 tries, spend the $ and get the 3rd from Diver's Den or from another reefer that's had it for awhile.

I have to agree. I couldn't stand losing that many of the same fish, and would stop trying -- at least for a while.

Also, its not like the track record for bi-colors is all that great to begin with -- no need to keep having fish die.

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalDude

Are you buying from the same LFS or different stores? IMO, I would try a different supplier.

at least 3 different places

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddrtrex

I have to agree. I couldn't stand losing that many of the same fish, and would stop trying -- at least for a while.

Also, its not like the track record for bi-colors is all that great to begin with -- no need to keep having fish die.

I agree to a point. While i dont deliberately kill, stress and or do bad things, i am trying ot get one to live. If it has an unfortunate death, I just look at it like it was a bigger fishes dinner, it just happened to go out a different way. Like said, for the record, I dont do that for everything.

tvrsir · 02/05/2012, 02:53 PM

your attitude sucks.

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrsir

your attitude sucks.

If thats the case, so does all the fish places that sell them. How many you think die once out of the retail fish sellers hands?

Dont be so fast to judge my friend as I am sure you go to their page to see what they have and dont think a thing about them sucking.

P.S. Then tell me who buys them undamaged so it will live and i dont have to go through a lot of them!

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 07:42 PM

Uhp, well, looks like my heater had a leak and when the fish got too close to it it fried it. It ws jerking in its cave every 10 seconds and I went to go see what was up. I shewed it out into the open and when it went to the other corner of the tank where the heater was hanging in the tank, it went into a spiral somersault, jerked a few times and froze. Isnt that just dandy!? Well, guess I am off the hook on this one.

Time to go buy another fish! This is getting fkn old!!

f3honda4me · 02/05/2012, 07:55 PM

So you had a defective heater and that's been killing your fish?

sreefs · 02/05/2012, 09:34 PM

Get your next one from Divers Den if you must have one! I doubt it was your heaters fault because the fish got close to it.

albano · 02/05/2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sreefs

get your last one from divers den if you must have one! I doubt it was your heaters fault because the fish got close to it.

fify

csmfish · 02/05/2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3honda4me

So you had a defective heater and that's been killing your fish?

No, just one in QT with this heater. The others, dunno what there problem is/was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sreefs

Get your next one from Divers Den if you must have one! I doubt it was your heaters fault because the fish got close to it.

Well, then it had a heart attack!?

02/05/2012, 08:32 AM	#1
csmfish Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: VA Posts: 1,055	When angels die - cant keep them alive??? My last bi color, well, its on its half side jerking death bed, was in great shape, eating and everything but had a case of ick. It was the size of maybe a little bigger than a quarter. Was doing GREAT until this morning!? All ick was gone and breathing great before bed. No changes but 100% water changes everyday. Then, one week out, and I wake up and it is in death twitches? This is the 5th-6th bi-color and they will not stay alive??? What is going on?????? Seriously, who sells bi colors that live? They HAVE to be cyanide-ed or something, this is ridiculous!

02/05/2012, 08:44 AM	#3
jimrawr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palm Beach County, FL Posts: 1,887	100% water changes cant be good IMO. __________________ Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.

02/05/2012, 09:29 AM	#5
michaelr Young Reefer Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Missouri Posts: 507	why not try using a dip in methylene blue? i believe it helps with cyanide poisoning __________________ I wish there was an undo button on reef keeping Current Tank Info: 55 long and 28 gallon biocube

02/05/2012, 11:20 AM	#11
michaelr Young Reefer Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Missouri Posts: 507	not very long i only dip for 30 seconds to a minute. kordon suggests only 10 seconds at 50 ppm. but thats at a higher concentration heres their instructions: SUGGESTED TREATMENT PROCEDURES The following procedures are suggested for freshwater and marine aquariums and ponds. Methylene Blue is removed by activated carbon filtration. It will also be absorbed by porous materials such as rock, coral and wood. The product is best used in bare aquariums or ponds, especially if they are new. Methylene Blue may permanently color the silicone sealant in aquariums. At the conclusion of all treatments, a partial or complete water change should be made and activated carbon replaced in the filter. As an aid in reversal of nitrite (NO2-) or cyanide (CN-) poisoning of marine and freshwater aquarium fishes: (a) Remove carbon filter and continue to operate with mechanical filter media throughout the treatment period. (b) Add 1 teaspoon of 2.303% Methylene Blue per 10 gallons of water. This produces a concentration of 3 ppm. Continue the treatment for 3 to 5 days. (c) Make a water change as noted and replace the filter carbon at the conclusion of the treatment. parasite protozoans." For use as a dip for cyanide poisoning: (a) Prepare a nonmetallic container of sufficient size to contain the fish to be treated by adding water similar to the original aquarium. (b) Add 5 teaspoons (24.65 ml) per 3 gallons of water. This produces a concentration of 50 ppm. It is not recommended that the concentration be increased beyond 50 ppm. (c) Place fishes to be treated in this solution for no longer than 10 seconds. (d) Return fish to original aquarium. __________________ I wish there was an undo button on reef keeping Current Tank Info: 55 long and 28 gallon biocube

02/05/2012, 02:06 PM	#16
Arkayology Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,597	Are you buying from the same LFS or different stores? IMO, I would try a different supplier. __________________ -Matt in between tanks

02/05/2012, 08:34 AM	#2
jamesdean3 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 128	are you QTing them and treating for ich before DT? and 100% water changes, really? is that even possible?

02/05/2012, 09:21 AM	#4
bamf25 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Central NJ Posts: 1,419	Bi colors have a history of being captured with cyanide. It is not uncommon to lose a fish for unknown reasons because of this.

02/05/2012, 09:56 AM	#7
Casey8 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 169	It happened to me too, I couldn't keep the bi-color angel alive. I tried 5 times already.

02/05/2012, 10:00 AM	#8
csmfish Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: VA Posts: 1,055	It is interesting that all of mine, thier heads turn black just before they croak. Did yours do this?

02/05/2012, 02:53 PM	#19
tvrsir Goose69 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 741	your attitude sucks.

02/05/2012, 07:42 PM	#21
csmfish Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: VA Posts: 1,055	Uhp, well, looks like my heater had a leak and when the fish got too close to it it fried it. It ws jerking in its cave every 10 seconds and I went to go see what was up. I shewed it out into the open and when it went to the other corner of the tank where the heater was hanging in the tank, it went into a spiral somersault, jerked a few times and froze. Isnt that just dandy!? Well, guess I am off the hook on this one. Time to go buy another fish! This is getting fkn old!!

02/05/2012, 07:55 PM	#22
f3honda4me Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,218	So you had a defective heater and that's been killing your fish?

02/05/2012, 09:34 PM	#23
sreefs Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pa Posts: 754	Get your next one from Divers Den if you must have one! I doubt it was your heaters fault because the fish got close to it.