I need MAJOR help please

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 12:12 AM

I need help! I am so frustrated with my tank, i don't know what to do! I'm fairly new to the hobby, had a nano and wanted bigger! got a 230gallon RR tank. I want a reef so bad but everything dies! Fish do great, every coral i have had is either gone or heading south!

Ill give you every detail i can think of and maybe someone can give me an idea! I would be so thankful if someone can help!

the tank has been running since the beginning of oct.

its a 230g with a 50g sump. my filtration is filter socks on the drains that i keep clean. reef octopus xp3000 skimmer. just added 300ml of ecobak in a reactor. 300+lbs LR.

lighting is a diy led setup with 125 cree 3w leds ran 12 hrs/day

parameters are:
salinity 34ppm
ammonia 0
nitrates/nitrites 0
ph 8.14
phosphates 1.2ppm (high di was worn out and didnt realize it)
alk 10dkh
calcium 400
mag 1240

fish (all doing great)
9 chromis
4 clowns
1 blue damsel
2 wrasses
1 mandrine
1 fire shrimp
1 cleaner shrimp
hermits/snails

corals: still alive/maybe
gsp- no polyp extension but the mat still has color
zoanthis has not opened since it came from nano
candycane- alive but looks bad
ricordia- doing ok

corals- died
another gsp colony
green birds nest
pocilapora
small monti
button plops
small xenia
red mushrooms

i dont understand what I'm doing wrong! everything thats not dead looks very sick, most things head south quick! all live stock was floated at least 15 minutes prior to a slow drip.

Anyone have any ideas at all? One other thing i have noticed, coraline is at a very slow growth as well.

Someone please help!

D-Captain · 02/10/2012, 12:30 AM

Copper?

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 12:32 AM

I thought about that, don't know how it would have gotten in there. never used any. I got the tank new unless it came from LR. I would think my shrimp would have problems? i will probably get a copper test kit tomorrow. if i find i have it any way to get rid of it?

Playa-1 · 02/10/2012, 12:33 AM

Are you dosing anything to the tank for any reason?

How much flow do you have in the tank?

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 12:43 AM

no dosing, nothing in the tank that i don't think water changes get. plenty of flow, 3 mp40s that get things going very well.Im just stumped!

agruetz · 02/10/2012, 12:48 AM

Is it possible the nights are not putting out the correct spectrum/colors?

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 12:52 AM

well i haven't thought of that, could be possible, i have 1/1 cool white to RB. half came from rapidled and half from reefledlights.

jinks · 02/10/2012, 12:59 AM

Check to make sure no metal of any kind is in the water or getting wet and dripping into the water(hose clamps and what not). i would also check for a electrical short. If its a small one it might not be enough for you to feel or to kill the fish but is damaging corals flesh. Could also be some sort of parasite.

agruetz · 02/10/2012, 01:02 AM

I am just throwing possibilities out there, I am not even sure how you would test it. jinks, hose clamps in the water can cause issues? Do the leach metal's into the water or something?

jinks · 02/10/2012, 01:06 AM

A metal one in the water would be a very bad thing. A metal one that is getting wet (rusting and leaching) then dripping into a sump would also be bad. The plastic ones are fine to be in water. If you have metal ones check to be sure they are dry, or not over anything where they could drip or drop rust into your tanks water.

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 01:09 AM

checked electrical tonight, i have a very accurate meter for work, it reads .3v. doesn't seem like enough to hurt anything. i will admit back in oct. i had a pipe clamp get wet, less than a week though. no metal at all around the tank. how could i detect/eliminate parasite?

thank you for all the ideas so far!

jinks · 02/10/2012, 01:20 AM

You will just have to look to see if you have any parasites. Find some pictures of the common ones and go give a look.

Didn't see this before. Your phosphates are very high. 0.1ppm is where things can start to go bad. It's going to be hard to guess on anything till they come down. If i had to bet i would say this is the problem. I would do as large of a water change as you can. I know its a big tank to do a huge one on, but it will be worth it. If you can swing 25% twice, a day apart, would think you would be in good shape again.

Playa-1 · 02/10/2012, 01:46 AM

salinity 34ppm

How did you come up with this number?

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 01:48 AM

I'm sorry I meant .12 ppm phosphates, sorry. I did a 20 gallon water change tonight, got 20 more mixing for tomorrow. The salinity I checked with a refractometer from my brother and a conductivity probe, both came up the same.

Playa-1 · 02/10/2012, 02:01 AM

If you haven't already, then I would suggest taking a water sample in to the lfs to verify your test results and compare notes.

Another consideration would be acclimating the corals to lighting.

bigdaddystar · 02/10/2012, 02:20 AM

Very strange...honestly you really almost cant even kill softies...I have 2 very different tanks..one I do absolutely nothing but water changes to...alot of fish and just softies the other is top of the line garbage..all sps..calcium reactor BK skimmer...blah blah...

Its got to be something irritating them...Like already said if its not metals or something in the water its got to be lights...no other reason for it. I would double check your salinity...

I am going to assume you are topping off your evaporation water with ro water right not saltwater...Just to make sure you say your new...but I am sure not that new

FragIt Dan · 02/10/2012, 02:46 AM

I would think the shrimp would show signs of stress if it were copper. As for the hose clamps, depending upon what metal they are made of, rust is just the FO of GFO, but there may be other contaminants in there too, not a likely culprit IMO. Is this a sudden change, or have your corals always done poorly? As was suggested already, I would start by bringing a water sample and having a full run of tests done to verify your results. I have seen many issues trace back to inaccurate test results.
Dan

fishgate · 02/10/2012, 05:37 AM

Is there a top on the tank? Does it perhaps filter UV?

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 08:13 AM

Its a drive to my lfs but it might be my only option. Corals have always done poorly in this tank, gsp isn't even doing well at all! Top off with ro water. No top, I heat tank to 77. when I had the clamp in the water it was no more than a week, I realized what I did before it got nasty!

Reverend Reefer · 02/10/2012, 08:16 AM

how deep is the tank? is it possible that the leds aren't penetrating enough, like is there a correlation between the corals dying and their placement in this tank (i.e., are all the ones that died placed lower in the tank and the ones that are higher are surviving?)... just throwing out ideas.

imolaragazzo · 02/10/2012, 08:45 AM

What are the dimensions of the tank? With a tank that size I would be using more like 200 LEDs. Have you tried to move up your corals higher in your tank?

tangs_tank · 02/10/2012, 09:42 AM

If water tests come in ok, I have to agree with some replies here, the lighting might be an issue. BTW, you might want to get a refractometer, they're great.

bamf25 · 02/10/2012, 11:17 AM

I am not sold on the lights. I have 65 cree xm series leds 4 inches from water, no optics on a 4 x 2 x 2 120g, and all my softies, and lps are just fine. It is not enough for sps on the very low levels, but middle to high in the tank is no issue.

Do you have a fualty heater? Look for any cracks in the glass, or condensation in the heater tube.

Preble · 02/10/2012, 11:23 AM

whats your temperature?

MaintenanceMan · 02/10/2012, 12:16 PM

Have not looked at the heaters closely. I did check for.stray voltage. I agree with the lights, when I add new corals they go down hill way too fast to be lighting alone. I do want to add a few more leds but I dont think that's the culprit.
Temperature is 77.

I plan to get a copper test today.

02/10/2012, 12:12 AM	#1
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	I need MAJOR help please I need help! I am so frustrated with my tank, i don't know what to do! I'm fairly new to the hobby, had a nano and wanted bigger! got a 230gallon RR tank. I want a reef so bad but everything dies! Fish do great, every coral i have had is either gone or heading south! Ill give you every detail i can think of and maybe someone can give me an idea! I would be so thankful if someone can help! the tank has been running since the beginning of oct. its a 230g with a 50g sump. my filtration is filter socks on the drains that i keep clean. reef octopus xp3000 skimmer. just added 300ml of ecobak in a reactor. 300+lbs LR. lighting is a diy led setup with 125 cree 3w leds ran 12 hrs/day parameters are: salinity 34ppm ammonia 0 nitrates/nitrites 0 ph 8.14 phosphates 1.2ppm (high di was worn out and didnt realize it) alk 10dkh calcium 400 mag 1240 fish (all doing great) 9 chromis 4 clowns 1 blue damsel 2 wrasses 1 mandrine 1 fire shrimp 1 cleaner shrimp hermits/snails corals: still alive/maybe gsp- no polyp extension but the mat still has color zoanthis has not opened since it came from nano candycane- alive but looks bad ricordia- doing ok corals- died another gsp colony green birds nest pocilapora small monti button plops small xenia red mushrooms i dont understand what I'm doing wrong! everything thats not dead looks very sick, most things head south quick! all live stock was floated at least 15 minutes prior to a slow drip. Anyone have any ideas at all? One other thing i have noticed, coraline is at a very slow growth as well. Someone please help!

02/10/2012, 02:20 AM	#16
bigdaddystar Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Bernardino CA Posts: 325	Very strange...honestly you really almost cant even kill softies...I have 2 very different tanks..one I do absolutely nothing but water changes to...alot of fish and just softies the other is top of the line garbage..all sps..calcium reactor BK skimmer...blah blah... Its got to be something irritating them...Like already said if its not metals or something in the water its got to be lights...no other reason for it. I would double check your salinity... I am going to assume you are topping off your evaporation water with ro water right not saltwater...Just to make sure you say your new...but I am sure not that new __________________ Electrician "will work for corals" 180g 6x2x2 mixed reef 120g leemar peninsula 48"x20"30" SPS tank Current Tank Info: 180g reef. setting up a 105g and 90g reef

02/10/2012, 02:46 AM	#17
FragIt Dan Marine Biologist Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Nanaimo, BC Posts: 149	I would think the shrimp would show signs of stress if it were copper. As for the hose clamps, depending upon what metal they are made of, rust is just the FO of GFO, but there may be other contaminants in there too, not a likely culprit IMO. Is this a sudden change, or have your corals always done poorly? As was suggested already, I would start by bringing a water sample and having a full run of tests done to verify your results. I have seen many issues trace back to inaccurate test results. Dan __________________ FragIt Dan Save the Reef, Buy a Frag! Current Tank Info: 100G frag tank, 90G show tank, 75G softies, 33G medi tank

02/10/2012, 05:37 AM	#18
fishgate Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Damascus, MD Posts: 3,340	Is there a top on the tank? Does it perhaps filter UV? __________________ 125RR in-wall, 40B Sump, CS180 BM Skimmer, ATI 4x80 watt, eheim 1262, custom wrap around rock wall, ReefKeeper Elite 120g in-wall, 40B Sump, PC 54wx4, Jabao DC-6000 (full siphon), future seahorse t Current Tank Info: 125g, 120g, 2x40b sumps, ATI 4x80 T5HO

02/10/2012, 08:16 AM	#20
Reverend Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 883	how deep is the tank? is it possible that the leds aren't penetrating enough, like is there a correlation between the corals dying and their placement in this tank (i.e., are all the ones that died placed lower in the tank and the ones that are higher are surviving?)... just throwing out ideas. __________________ - Rev. Tank: 65G glass 48" long tank; Sump/Fuge: 30G. Lighting: LEDs+single T5 strip. Maintenance: ATO Kalkwasser + 10% weekly WC, daily feedings LPS+Softies dominated.

02/10/2012, 12:30 AM	#2
D-Captain Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 70	Copper?

02/10/2012, 12:32 AM	#3
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	I thought about that, don't know how it would have gotten in there. never used any. I got the tank new unless it came from LR. I would think my shrimp would have problems? i will probably get a copper test kit tomorrow. if i find i have it any way to get rid of it?

02/10/2012, 12:33 AM	#4
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Are you dosing anything to the tank for any reason? How much flow do you have in the tank?

02/10/2012, 12:43 AM	#5
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	no dosing, nothing in the tank that i don't think water changes get. plenty of flow, 3 mp40s that get things going very well.Im just stumped!

02/10/2012, 12:48 AM	#6
agruetz Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 591	Is it possible the nights are not putting out the correct spectrum/colors?

02/10/2012, 12:52 AM	#7
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	well i haven't thought of that, could be possible, i have 1/1 cool white to RB. half came from rapidled and half from reefledlights.

02/10/2012, 12:59 AM	#8
jinks Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 581	Check to make sure no metal of any kind is in the water or getting wet and dripping into the water(hose clamps and what not). i would also check for a electrical short. If its a small one it might not be enough for you to feel or to kill the fish but is damaging corals flesh. Could also be some sort of parasite.

02/10/2012, 01:02 AM	#9
agruetz Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 591	I am just throwing possibilities out there, I am not even sure how you would test it. jinks, hose clamps in the water can cause issues? Do the leach metal's into the water or something?

02/10/2012, 01:06 AM	#10
jinks Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 581	A metal one in the water would be a very bad thing. A metal one that is getting wet (rusting and leaching) then dripping into a sump would also be bad. The plastic ones are fine to be in water. If you have metal ones check to be sure they are dry, or not over anything where they could drip or drop rust into your tanks water.

02/10/2012, 01:09 AM	#11
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	checked electrical tonight, i have a very accurate meter for work, it reads .3v. doesn't seem like enough to hurt anything. i will admit back in oct. i had a pipe clamp get wet, less than a week though. no metal at all around the tank. how could i detect/eliminate parasite? thank you for all the ideas so far!

02/10/2012, 01:20 AM	#12
jinks Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 581	You will just have to look to see if you have any parasites. Find some pictures of the common ones and go give a look. Didn't see this before. Your phosphates are very high. 0.1ppm is where things can start to go bad. It's going to be hard to guess on anything till they come down. If i had to bet i would say this is the problem. I would do as large of a water change as you can. I know its a big tank to do a huge one on, but it will be worth it. If you can swing 25% twice, a day apart, would think you would be in good shape again.

02/10/2012, 01:46 AM	#13
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	salinity 34ppm How did you come up with this number?

02/10/2012, 01:48 AM	#14
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	I'm sorry I meant .12 ppm phosphates, sorry. I did a 20 gallon water change tonight, got 20 more mixing for tomorrow. The salinity I checked with a refractometer from my brother and a conductivity probe, both came up the same.

02/10/2012, 02:01 AM	#15
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	If you haven't already, then I would suggest taking a water sample in to the lfs to verify your test results and compare notes. Another consideration would be acclimating the corals to lighting.

02/10/2012, 08:13 AM	#19
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	Its a drive to my lfs but it might be my only option. Corals have always done poorly in this tank, gsp isn't even doing well at all! Top off with ro water. No top, I heat tank to 77. when I had the clamp in the water it was no more than a week, I realized what I did before it got nasty!

02/10/2012, 08:45 AM	#21
imolaragazzo Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: West Lafayette, IN Posts: 160	What are the dimensions of the tank? With a tank that size I would be using more like 200 LEDs. Have you tried to move up your corals higher in your tank?

02/10/2012, 09:42 AM	#22
tangs_tank Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Grayslake, Il Posts: 135	If water tests come in ok, I have to agree with some replies here, the lighting might be an issue. BTW, you might want to get a refractometer, they're great.

02/10/2012, 11:17 AM	#23
bamf25 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Central NJ Posts: 1,419	I am not sold on the lights. I have 65 cree xm series leds 4 inches from water, no optics on a 4 x 2 x 2 120g, and all my softies, and lps are just fine. It is not enough for sps on the very low levels, but middle to high in the tank is no issue. Do you have a fualty heater? Look for any cracks in the glass, or condensation in the heater tube.

02/10/2012, 11:23 AM	#24
Preble Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: High Point North Carolina Posts: 341	whats your temperature? __________________ I can't afford to take you to a fancy dinner, but we can go back to my place and eat in-front of my fancy reef tank. Current Tank Info: 50 mixed

02/10/2012, 12:16 PM	#25
MaintenanceMan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 10	Have not looked at the heaters closely. I did check for.stray voltage. I agree with the lights, when I add new corals they go down hill way too fast to be lighting alone. I do want to add a few more leds but I dont think that's the culprit. Temperature is 77. I plan to get a copper test today.