Reef Keeper Elite or Apex Controller ?

[SWSCJ]

450 gal. Reef & Fish

3200 GPH return pump
Skimz protein skimmer twin pumps
Aqua 120W UV sterilizer
Tradewind 1/2 hp Chiller
9.5 mag pump for chiller
2 550 Phobans w/power heads
Refugium grow light
ATO
Hamilton Cebu 3 MH 400W , 2 sets 80W T5s , LEDs
Koralia 8

[rhwimmers]

From everything I have been researching and reading the Apex is the way to go. Easy to expand if needed and can control just about everything you want - plus nice apps to control from your phone.

[wolfador]

If you are not dead set on either check out the Reef Angel. by far the best expand-ability on the market as it is open source. http://reefangel.com/

[rhwimmers]

True, that DEFINITELY had some promising features to it - I got turned away from it as you cant control tunze's with it (yet)

[kayl]

Go Apex and don't look back!

[wolfador]

Originally Posted by rhwimmers

True, that DEFINITELY had some promising features to it - I got turned away from it as you cant control tunze's with it (yet)

Looks like tunze control is now possible:

http://forum.reefangel.com/viewtopic...t=197&start=30

[ASpec]

Profilux! Spend the extra money and get EVERYTHING you could imagine. It's a bit of an investment but well worth it. And it will control your Tunze's and just about everything else you can throw at it.

[Shard]

Ive owned both controllers, the RKE and the Apex. Go with the Apex, it is the better controller.

There are also other options such as the Profilux and the soon to be released Vertex Cerebra.

Hope this helps,
Landon

[James77]

Apex is the most popular for a reason. I have used a few of the Apex controllers and several different ReefKeeper lites and Elites. I won't be buying a DA controller again for a very long time.

Profilux are top end quality and can be worth it if you can spend the extra money./

[solitude127]

I've been a DA user for a long time and have thought about an Apex. But all I ever read is that the Apex is better but no one really gives any explanation to their claim. So, how is the Apex better than the DA Elite besides internet connectivity, and supposedly Customer service (I've never had bad CS from DA). What functions does the Apex have that the Elite does not?

[Shard]

Originally Posted by solitude127

all I ever read is that the Apex is better but no one really gives any explanation to their claim. So, how is the Apex better than the DA Elite besides internet connectivity, and supposedly Customer service (I've never had bad CS from DA). What functions does the Apex have that the Elite does not?

Just a few things off the top of my head.
1) I don't have to breakdown the Apex to update it. It can be done via the web interface and the system stays up and running. I hated having to take the RKE apart and update each module individually. On the Apex its one point and click process.

2) After updating, I do not have to reprogram the whole the Apex system, where as with the RKE you have to reprogram your entire setup because a firmware update erases the memory. Reprograming your entire setup can take a while with the RKE... no need with the Apex, and in the off chance updating does mess up your setup, just restore a backup.

3) The web interface is better and has more features. Lots of detail to this one, but I can program, change outlet settings, and view extensive logs and graphs all via the web interface. The RKE interface was 'prettier', but is more limited in what you can actually do with the unit.

4) The scripting language for the Apex. It is completely optional but gives you a lot more leeway with setup so you can do much more complex things if you would like. The RKE doesn't have a scripting language so it isn't as flexible in some respects.

5) The Apex has had Tunze control (took forever for RKE to get it), and has Vortech control (DA has no plans to ever add it).

6) There are less overall bugs in the system, and firmware updates tend to be more useful and meaningful (This one causes a lot of arguments, but I still have problems and crashes with the myReef 2.0 software and occasional firmware screw ups with the RKE, as do many many others). I usually notice Neptune tends to add more software features instead, where as a lot of DA releases are just bug fixes.

7) There are more module options with the Apex (Vortech, Dissolved Ox, working Salinity, AI LEDs. I know DA has an AI setup, but I still think it hasn't been updated for 3 channel AI control, where as the Apex has. I know some may not need all these extra features, but it is nice to have the option of adding all these different types of modules.

8) The system has a backup feature. I can backup my setup from the Apex and save it elsewhere in case I need it.

9) The Apps for both Android/iPhone are better for the Apex. The RKE iPhone app was nothing more than a glorified RSS feed reader for a while, and while slowly improving, it is still behind the Apex iOS app. Same applies for Android. You can just do/control more from the Apex one.

10) Modules are produced more frequently at Neptune vs DA. Not a major deal for some, but I have more faith in Neptune actually keeping up with the times. For example, DA is now what? 3 years into fixing the Salinity probe issue and had to redesign the whole module? Neptune has never had to redesign a module due to flaws, and released the WXM 6 months after announcement. DA tends to take years to release modules, misses deadlines, and generally is behind Neptune in 'getting things to market'

11) The email/alarm features are better with the Apex. You can set a time delay so in case a parameter is out of step, the Apex will only send you one email every x minutes or hours. With the RKE would bomb me with about 30 emails a minute.

12) Their is a power failsafe mode with the Apex. In other words I can hookup a UPS, and when the Apex senses power loss, it will cut off all nonessential functions and only run the basic things (like a return pump) to keep the system going as long as possible with minimal power usage from the UPS.
13) I can run the Apex off the built in power failsafe port, no need to wire a 9v battery hack to power the bus like the RKE.

14) The Apex profiles and outlet setup is more flexible than the 'multi-timer' function on the RKE. I can setup profiles for use with AI lights, other lights, pumps, etc with more flexibility. A simple 5 line script can pull together a profile setup, alarm failsafes, and can rank switches by priority to affect the outlet. This is extremely difficult with the RKE to do since it is spread out over multiple functions and some 'workarounds' must be performed to get the 'setup' correct.

15) The system is cheaper to get setup once you start expanding. Depends on the setup, but I find that most combinations give you more hardware for less money, like more switch inputs in the basic system, it comes with Tunze control built in, etc. For example to make a RKE 'comparable' in hardware as a regular Apex you would need to add a RKM-NET, SW5, and TPC. All added costs for a stuff that already comes built in with the Apex.

16) The ports on the Apex are galvanically isolated, where as the RKE SL1 port lacks this. This means there is electrical isolation so the readings are more reliable. In a RKE system, two SL1 modules used in the same system can cause interference and unreliable readings. Not always a given, but an easy possibility due to this design flaw.

17) You can run the Apex system wiring over longer distances. Good if you have a remote sump type setup as you can overall have a longer 'bus'. It is difficult to do with the RKE because the I2C technology used in the bus with that system isn't really meant for long distance wire links. Not an issue for some, but for others long distance reliability can be important.

18) The Apex can locally store more logging history, and the graph function is more robust. I can see longer periods of history for specific parameters and
mix/match the graph. I can even export readings.

19) There are several things you can do via the Apex web interface that can't be done via the RKM-NET, but to be fair, some are possible with myReef. The major problem I see, is when I am away from home, logging in to a web interface is so much easier than leaving a PC running 24/7 within USB length of my RKE. Plus remote desktop is just a clunkier way to work on the system than a snappy web page.

20) Overall I find the hardware to be of better quality, and the programming to be more robust. A difficult metric to measure I know, but you can generally depend on the public consensus to arrive at the better choice, and almost everyone I have ever seen on RC who has owned both, prefers the Apex.


I am sure there are others who can add more, but in general I find with the Apex I get new features first, and can do more. I can't really think of anything I can do with my RKE that I can't with my Apex, but the vice versa is quite a long list.


Hope this helps and good luck to anyone making a decision,
Landon

[USC-fan]

I'm just got a Rke and it works well and I got it cheap.

Been looking at adding a led setup and I have to say... reef angel really put both controllers to shame. Waiting on one of these in the used forum and I'm going to buy it. Crazy I will have 3 controllers on one tank lol.

[Tha_liks]

Well I'm sold no need to keep researching

Thanks alot for breaking it down bud

Originally Posted by Shard

Just a few things off the top of my head.
1) I don't have to breakdown the Apex to update it. It can be done via the web interface and the system stays up and running. I hated having to take the RKE apart and update each module individually. On the Apex its one point and click process.

2) After updating, I do not have to reprogram the whole the Apex system, where as with the RKE you have to reprogram your entire setup because a firmware update erases the memory. Reprograming your entire setup can take a while with the RKE... no need with the Apex, and in the off chance updating does mess up your setup, just restore a backup.

3) The web interface is better and has more features. Lots of detail to this one, but I can program, change outlet settings, and view extensive logs and graphs all via the web interface. The RKE interface was 'prettier', but is more limited in what you can actually do with the unit.

4) The scripting language for the Apex. It is completely optional but gives you a lot more leeway with setup so you can do much more complex things if you would like. The RKE doesn't have a scripting language so it isn't as flexible in some respects.

5) The Apex has had Tunze control (took forever for RKE to get it), and has Vortech control (DA has no plans to ever add it).

6) There are less overall bugs in the system, and firmware updates tend to be more useful and meaningful (This one causes a lot of arguments, but I still have problems and crashes with the myReef 2.0 software and occasional firmware screw ups with the RKE, as do many many others). I usually notice Neptune tends to add more software features instead, where as a lot of DA releases are just bug fixes.

7) There are more module options with the Apex (Vortech, Dissolved Ox, working Salinity, AI LEDs. I know DA has an AI setup, but I still think it hasn't been updated for 3 channel AI control, where as the Apex has. I know some may not need all these extra features, but it is nice to have the option of adding all these different types of modules.

8) The system has a backup feature. I can backup my setup from the Apex and save it elsewhere in case I need it.

9) The Apps for both Android/iPhone are better for the Apex. The RKE iPhone app was nothing more than a glorified RSS feed reader for a while, and while slowly improving, it is still behind the Apex iOS app. Same applies for Android. You can just do/control more from the Apex one.

10) Modules are produced more frequently at Neptune vs DA. Not a major deal for some, but I have more faith in Neptune actually keeping up with the times. For example, DA is now what? 3 years into fixing the Salinity probe issue and had to redesign the whole module? Neptune has never had to redesign a module due to flaws, and released the WXM 6 months after announcement. DA tends to take years to release modules, misses deadlines, and generally is behind Neptune in 'getting things to market'

11) The email/alarm features are better with the Apex. You can set a time delay so in case a parameter is out of step, the Apex will only send you one email every x minutes or hours. With the RKE would bomb me with about 30 emails a minute.

12) Their is a power failsafe mode with the Apex. In other words I can hookup a UPS, and when the Apex senses power loss, it will cut off all nonessential functions and only run the basic things (like a return pump) to keep the system going as long as possible with minimal power usage from the UPS.
13) I can run the Apex off the built in power failsafe port, no need to wire a 9v battery hack to power the bus like the RKE.

14) The Apex profiles and outlet setup is more flexible than the 'multi-timer' function on the RKE. I can setup profiles for use with AI lights, other lights, pumps, etc with more flexibility. A simple 5 line script can pull together a profile setup, alarm failsafes, and can rank switches by priority to affect the outlet. This is extremely difficult with the RKE to do since it is spread out over multiple functions and some 'workarounds' must be performed to get the 'setup' correct.

15) The system is cheaper to get setup once you start expanding. Depends on the setup, but I find that most combinations give you more hardware for less money, like more switch inputs in the basic system, it comes with Tunze control built in, etc. For example to make a RKE 'comparable' in hardware as a regular Apex you would need to add a RKM-NET, SW5, and TPC. All added costs for a stuff that already comes built in with the Apex.

16) The ports on the Apex are galvanically isolated, where as the RKE SL1 port lacks this. This means there is electrical isolation so the readings are more reliable. In a RKE system, two SL1 modules used in the same system can cause interference and unreliable readings. Not always a given, but an easy possibility due to this design flaw.

17) You can run the Apex system wiring over longer distances. Good if you have a remote sump type setup as you can overall have a longer 'bus'. It is difficult to do with the RKE because the I2C technology used in the bus with that system isn't really meant for long distance wire links. Not an issue for some, but for others long distance reliability can be important.

18) The Apex can locally store more logging history, and the graph function is more robust. I can see longer periods of history for specific parameters and
mix/match the graph. I can even export readings.

19) There are several things you can do via the Apex web interface that can't be done via the RKM-NET, but to be fair, some are possible with myReef. The major problem I see, is when I am away from home, logging in to a web interface is so much easier than leaving a PC running 24/7 within USB length of my RKE. Plus remote desktop is just a clunkier way to work on the system than a snappy web page.

20) Overall I find the hardware to be of better quality, and the programming to be more robust. A difficult metric to measure I know, but you can generally depend on the public consensus to arrive at the better choice, and almost everyone I have ever seen on RC who has owned both, prefers the Apex.


I am sure there are others who can add more, but in general I find with the Apex I get new features first, and can do more. I can't really think of anything I can do with my RKE that I can't with my Apex, but the vice versa is quite a long list.


Hope this helps and good luck to anyone making a decision,
Landon

[kenith]

Well put Landon- I couldn't agree more in most features. The other features, I never even knew existed!

[solitude127]

To bring up an old thread. I've switched over to Neptune from DA and so far I like it. The post that Landon wrote was a good sum up of the differences. I know this is something small but one thing that the Apex does not do that my RKE did is have a non audible alarm (the head unit would flash). On my RKE, I had my head unit flash when my ATO reservoir float switch was triggered. With my Apex, I have it send an email.

[Timber77]

reef angel hands down is better than both