Snails all dying and falling off glass

Radicaljbr · 04/04/2012, 08:47 PM

I am very upset. All my snails are dying. Even my HUGE Turbo that is the size of a tennis ball. None of them will stay on the glass. Everytime I look in the tank I find them all on their backs in the sand. I keep moving them to the glass and they will latch on, but only for a few minutes before they let go again.

What could this be? Fish and corals are all fine. I went and bought a around 30 more snails and they are all doing the same thing. All will be lost in just a day or two if I do not figure this out.

Is there a certain chemical I should be checking other than the normal Nitrate, Nitrite, ammonia.........

agruetz · 04/04/2012, 08:52 PM

Copper will kill most snails etc... I think it can hurt coral's too if I understand correctly. (I would consider moving your prized HUGE turbo snail to a QT tank. With a new salt mix.) Have you done a water change to maybe remove any heavy metals that may have gotten in there? What are all your tank params? Also you may try to put in a poly filter in a high flow spot they are supposed to absorb heavy metals etc...

SushiGirl · 04/04/2012, 08:59 PM

High mag will do that.

WhoDey64 · 04/04/2012, 09:06 PM

Did you happen to stir up any cyno bacteria?

Radicaljbr · 04/04/2012, 09:37 PM

I have no copper fittings in my setup.
I did a water change this past weekend.
Yes, I did stir up a small amount of cyno when I did my water change and replaced my 2 250W MHs. I had cleaned my Tunza and forgot to turn it down afterwards and it strirred the bottom a little which made the Cyno go away. What would that do? My DSB did create a little bit of a sand storm, but I got that under control quickly.

The snail droppage started before all this though.

Anemone · 04/04/2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radicaljbr

I did a water change this past weekend.

Using what type of water?

Kevin

tebstan · 04/04/2012, 11:40 PM

A recent post here on RC mentioned that low calcium can cause the shells to slowly dissolve

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2152814

RA · 04/05/2012, 05:01 AM

Is your salinity off?

zaheda · 04/05/2012, 08:23 AM

Kent Carbon?

rhdoug · 04/05/2012, 09:47 AM

The most likely answer is that the turbos you have are from colder water. Many turbos that are offered to us are not from tropical waters, although the ones from the Caribbean should do ok. I have never had good luck with turbos. I use astreas and trochus, but even with them only a small percentage survive for any length of time (more than a year or 2) in my tank.

Humuhumunuku · 04/05/2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebstan

A recent post here on RC mentioned that low calcium can cause the shells to slowly dissolve

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2152814

I think Sk8r was exaggerating a bit there. Low calcium can keep things from growing, but it isn't going to dissolve things. Low pH on the other hand can cause some serious problems.

tebstan · 04/05/2012, 11:31 AM

Maybe dissolve isn't the right word... be unable to form new growth may be more accurate? Either way, it's a water chemistry issue, not just calcium, but mag and everything else interacting.

I thought about the 'cold' water species being a possibility as well, but if they're going to die off it happens relatively quickly - before reaching ginormous size. Did that jumbo one grow that big, or was it bought already large?

SushiGirl · 04/05/2012, 11:42 AM

He said all his snails, not just the giant turbo.
I still say high mag. We had this exact issue when dosing and mag got too high. A quick large emergency water change solved the problem.
Kent carbon would be my 2nd guess.
But, if the OP doesn't come back, we'll never know.

Humuhumunuku · 04/05/2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SushiGirl

He said all his snails, not just the giant turbo.
I still say high mag. We had this exact issue when dosing and mag got too high. A quick large emergency water change solved the problem.
Kent carbon would be my 2nd guess.
But, if the OP doesn't come back, we'll never know.

I suspect the bad batch of carbon will be a haunting problem, and keep popping up from time to time for months or years to come.

Radicaljbr · 04/05/2012, 12:20 PM

I have several different types of snails, from my 6 year old "tennis ball" size Turbo to astreas and trochuses. As mentioned, I already did a water change last weekend. Today I went and bought a grounding probe as I see that mentioned a lot.

parameters were all normal with ammonia = 0, Nitrate at around .09 which should not cause issue, Nitrite = 0, Mag = 1250, calcium normal and Alk just a tad low, but not worth mentioning. PH at 8.4. Water temp at 77. Again, everything else like shrimp, fish and corals are fine and so were snails until last week. Water is ro/di. Salinity is 1.025

When I came home today, I did notice that two of my new Astreas were on the glass so maybe something right is happening. Still have around 30 snails on their back including the LARGE Turbo.

Radicaljbr · 04/05/2012, 12:22 PM

Sorry, the Turbo is around 6 years old and started small or normal and has growth the size it is inside my tank.

Humuhumunuku · 04/05/2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radicaljbr

I have several different types of snails, from my 6 year old "tennis ball" size Turbo to astreas and trochuses. As mentioned, I already did a water change last weekend. Today I went and bought a grounding probe as I see that mentioned a lot.

parameters were all normal with ammonia = 0, Nitrate at around .09 which should not cause issue, Nitrite = 0, Mag = 1250, calcium normal and Alk just a tad low, but not worth mentioning. PH at 8.4. Water temp at 77. Again, everything else like shrimp, fish and corals are fine and so were snails until last week. Water is ro/di. Salinity is 1.025

When I came home today, I did notice that two of my new Astreas were on the glass so maybe something right is happening. Still have around 30 snails on their back including the LARGE Turbo.

Just make sure you only use a grounding probe if it is plugged into a GFI outlet, otherwise it can cause more problems than it will solve.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/index.php

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimek

Many of the actual individuals of Astraea offered for sale in the reef aquarium hobby come from the cooler waters of Baja California. These animals are not from areas that have sand substrates or, really, much of anything else in the way of flat surfaces. If they get dislodged from rocks, they tend to fall into crevices or crannies where they can reach a rock with their foot and attach to it. Consequently, they have never developed a "righting response." This means that if they fall from the aquarium walls onto the sand, they will not be able to turn over, and will die there unless somebody or something turns them over. Given that they also are not warm water animals, they tend to die young and leave a good-looking corpse in the aquarium.

Radicaljbr · 04/05/2012, 12:37 PM

Thanks for the article!!

You can look at my system in my profile, but I installed all my electrical on a main cercuit ground protection 20 amp fuse. So all 16 outlets for my tank setup are protected at the main box.

RadReefer · 04/05/2012, 07:24 PM

Elevated Mag is the first thing that comes to mind... Do you dose and test for Mg?

Radicaljbr · 04/05/2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadReefer

Elevated Mag is the first thing that comes to mind... Do you dose and test for Mg?

Did you read my previous post where I stated my Mag was at 1250? That is at the low end so all is good there.

Most of the snails are dead now, need to take them out in the morning. Too ****ed off right now. I suspect the rest will be done for in the morning.

geemanaz · 04/05/2012, 10:27 PM

Are you just dropping the snails right into the tank or are you acclimation them before you put them in the tank . Sound like Salinity and temperature shock to the snails. have you test the Salinity of the LFS water and acclimat to your tank salinity and temperatur?

Anemone · 04/05/2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anemone

Using what type of water?

Kevin

Both water change and make up water source makes a difference. You may be importing something into your tank via you ater.

Kevin

Radicaljbr · 04/26/2012, 09:25 AM

Update....all snails died, except my giant turbo. It has been a couple of weeks, so yesterday I went and bought 3 different types of snails and again they are all on there backs today. This is just the strangest and most upsetting thing and I wish I could figure this out. If I put them against the glass they will grab on for about 1 or 2 minutes before falling off again.

Humuhumunuku · 04/26/2012, 10:59 AM

Did you try aggressive carbon? Not kent, just to be safe

feh · 04/26/2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SushiGirl

High mag will do that.

Curious how high are we talking?

04/04/2012, 08:47 PM	#1
Radicaljbr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hudson, Ohio Posts: 1,293	Snails all dying and falling off glass I am very upset. All my snails are dying. Even my HUGE Turbo that is the size of a tennis ball. None of them will stay on the glass. Everytime I look in the tank I find them all on their backs in the sand. I keep moving them to the glass and they will latch on, but only for a few minutes before they let go again. What could this be? Fish and corals are all fine. I went and bought a around 30 more snails and they are all doing the same thing. All will be lost in just a day or two if I do not figure this out. Is there a certain chemical I should be checking other than the normal Nitrate, Nitrite, ammonia.........

04/04/2012, 08:52 PM	#2
agruetz Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 591	Copper will kill most snails etc... I think it can hurt coral's too if I understand correctly. (I would consider moving your prized HUGE turbo snail to a QT tank. With a new salt mix.) Have you done a water change to maybe remove any heavy metals that may have gotten in there? What are all your tank params? Also you may try to put in a poly filter in a high flow spot they are supposed to absorb heavy metals etc... __________________ 27 Gallon BioCube - 1 Gold Striped Marroon Clowns, Assorted Zoa's, and a clean up crew running around Last edited by agruetz; 04/04/2012 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Added info

04/04/2012, 08:59 PM	#3
SushiGirl Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Fort Worth, TX USA Posts: 8,267	High mag will do that. __________________ Visit my Homepage or "My Albums" (via Profile) for hitchhiker pics. Current Tank Info: 55g softy/LPS tank & 20L reef tank

04/04/2012, 09:06 PM	#4
WhoDey64 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida Posts: 1,311	Did you happen to stir up any cyno bacteria? __________________ My name is Robert and I am addicted to Nitrates.

04/04/2012, 11:40 PM	#7
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	A recent post here on RC mentioned that low calcium can cause the shells to slowly dissolve http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2152814 __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

04/04/2012, 09:37 PM	#5
Radicaljbr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hudson, Ohio Posts: 1,293	I have no copper fittings in my setup. I did a water change this past weekend. Yes, I did stir up a small amount of cyno when I did my water change and replaced my 2 250W MHs. I had cleaned my Tunza and forgot to turn it down afterwards and it strirred the bottom a little which made the Cyno go away. What would that do? My DSB did create a little bit of a sand storm, but I got that under control quickly. The snail droppage started before all this though.

04/05/2012, 05:01 AM	#8
RA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: S. Jersey Posts: 976	Is your salinity off?

04/05/2012, 08:23 AM	#9
zaheda Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 674	Kent Carbon?

04/05/2012, 09:47 AM	#10
rhdoug Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Dutchess County, NY Posts: 897	The most likely answer is that the turbos you have are from colder water. Many turbos that are offered to us are not from tropical waters, although the ones from the Caribbean should do ok. I have never had good luck with turbos. I use astreas and trochus, but even with them only a small percentage survive for any length of time (more than a year or 2) in my tank. __________________ --Randy Current Tank Info: 58 Gallon mixed reef running since 1999, Super Reef Octopus Skimmer, 180w Maxpect Razor LED Light, August 2015 TOTM

04/05/2012, 11:31 AM	#12
tebstan Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 961	Maybe dissolve isn't the right word... be unable to form new growth may be more accurate? Either way, it's a water chemistry issue, not just calcium, but mag and everything else interacting. I thought about the 'cold' water species being a possibility as well, but if they're going to die off it happens relatively quickly - before reaching ginormous size. Did that jumbo one grow that big, or was it bought already large? __________________ Washington's Rule #110: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience.

04/05/2012, 11:42 AM	#13
SushiGirl Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Fort Worth, TX USA Posts: 8,267	He said all his snails, not just the giant turbo. I still say high mag. We had this exact issue when dosing and mag got too high. A quick large emergency water change solved the problem. Kent carbon would be my 2nd guess. But, if the OP doesn't come back, we'll never know. __________________ Visit my Homepage or "My Albums" (via Profile) for hitchhiker pics. Current Tank Info: 55g softy/LPS tank & 20L reef tank

04/05/2012, 12:20 PM	#15
Radicaljbr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hudson, Ohio Posts: 1,293	I have several different types of snails, from my 6 year old "tennis ball" size Turbo to astreas and trochuses. As mentioned, I already did a water change last weekend. Today I went and bought a grounding probe as I see that mentioned a lot. parameters were all normal with ammonia = 0, Nitrate at around .09 which should not cause issue, Nitrite = 0, Mag = 1250, calcium normal and Alk just a tad low, but not worth mentioning. PH at 8.4. Water temp at 77. Again, everything else like shrimp, fish and corals are fine and so were snails until last week. Water is ro/di. Salinity is 1.025 When I came home today, I did notice that two of my new Astreas were on the glass so maybe something right is happening. Still have around 30 snails on their back including the LARGE Turbo.

04/05/2012, 12:22 PM	#16
Radicaljbr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hudson, Ohio Posts: 1,293	Sorry, the Turbo is around 6 years old and started small or normal and has growth the size it is inside my tank.

04/05/2012, 12:37 PM	#18
Radicaljbr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hudson, Ohio Posts: 1,293	Thanks for the article!! You can look at my system in my profile, but I installed all my electrical on a main cercuit ground protection 20 amp fuse. So all 16 outlets for my tank setup are protected at the main box.

04/05/2012, 07:24 PM	#19
RadReefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 185	Elevated Mag is the first thing that comes to mind... Do you dose and test for Mg? __________________ SPS-LPS reef Current Tank Info: 75gal SPS/LPS reef 30gal sump Bubble king 160 skimmer, MP40es, MP10es, Elos ATO, Innovative Marine Minimax reactor, Tek elite

04/05/2012, 10:27 PM	#21
geemanaz AZ FRAG Club Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 540	Are you just dropping the snails right into the tank or are you acclimation them before you put them in the tank . Sound like Salinity and temperature shock to the snails. have you test the Salinity of the LFS water and acclimat to your tank salinity and temperatur? __________________ Sent By Nexus 6 Current Tank Info: Nano In The Wroks

04/26/2012, 09:25 AM	#23
Radicaljbr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hudson, Ohio Posts: 1,293	Update....all snails died, except my giant turbo. It has been a couple of weeks, so yesterday I went and bought 3 different types of snails and again they are all on there backs today. This is just the strangest and most upsetting thing and I wish I could figure this out. If I put them against the glass they will grab on for about 1 or 2 minutes before falling off again.

04/26/2012, 10:59 AM	#24
Humuhumunuku Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Townsville, AU Posts: 616 Blog Entries: 1	Did you try aggressive carbon? Not kent, just to be safe __________________ They mostly come at night. Mostly. Current Tank Info: 135g mixed reef