Mandarin advice.

Maaka · 04/16/2012, 08:15 PM

A mandarin i'm interested in at the lfs is eating brine shrimp. (I have seen it in person.)

My question is will they eat mysis shrimp and other frozen food now or will it still just take only brine?

Sugar Magnolia · 04/16/2012, 08:18 PM

Brine is a very low nitritional food. The fact that it is eating brine is no guarantee that it will accept frozen/prepared foods.

How big is your tank? How old? How much live rock?

Mandarins, even ORA bred, need very large, well established tanks to thrive.

Maaka · 04/16/2012, 08:26 PM

I know I need tons of pods to feed it. That is why i was only going to buy one if it was already eating frozen food.

and i have a 41 gallon with 50 pounds of lr and it is about 7.5 months old.

Sk8r · 04/16/2012, 08:32 PM

Can I keep a mandarin or scooter?
Posted 03/03/2012 at 09:44 AM by Sk8r
A mandy should be making a successful 'kill' of a pod every 5 seconds to remain healthy. Keeping one in a well-established 50 with 50 lbs of holey rock, and a mature, year-old 20 gallon fuge with another 20 lbs of rock is very marginal. If you meet those conditions and there is no competition for pods, you can do it with caution.

To run the math, there are 86400 seconds in 24 hours...and given 12 hours of dark when it is not eating (it actually eats before the lights come on...that is 43200 seconds of daylight, divided by 5 (every five seconds)---meaning that a mandy eats about 8640 pods a day, or 720 an hour. Two thousand pods, if fed to it in the required concentration, will be eaten in less than 3 hours. If you have a pair---do the math. You need at least 100 gallons supported by a very large, strong fuge with cheato and live rock.

Note that mandarins and scooters are the one type (dragonets) exempt from quarantine, You take your chances, this once. Their difficult diet makes quarantine a no-go: fortunately their extreme protective slime coat does not allow them to host the ich parasite (unless the fish is sick and/or in bad water conditions [particularly very low alkalinity.]) IE, they can get it, but it is very, very rare. Their slime coat is so thick they feel like a handful of warm Jell-o, and they are frequently believed to have ich---when they have simply gotten some white sand grains stuck to the slime coat.

They have no sense of territoriality toward other species (and will violate territory completely oblivious to the other fish's objections.) They will, however, kill ANY other mandarin that appears if the hunting is not very, very, very good. If you do not start out with a mated pair, don't try to put another mandy in later.

If you have the right tank and are willing to risk the no-quarantine dice roll on a pretty solid bet---they're a very pretty addition to your tank, usually out even before the lights are on, terrorizing the pod population.

Reefmedic79 · 04/17/2012, 03:51 PM

I would say no go for the mandarin, you stated it's eating brine not frozen, as mentioned before if it's eating brine doesn't mean that it will eat frozen.

I'd think that only an advanced aquarist may be able to keep one in a tank similar to yours, but it would also include a well established fuge. I also think culturing your own pods would be needed to help supplement the population.

Maaka · 04/17/2012, 07:50 PM

I should have been more specific. It is eating frozen brine shrimp.

but i'm not really planning on getting it anymore unless the frozen brine shrimp changes everything somehow.

Tmoriarty · 04/17/2012, 07:57 PM

... My mandarin is fat and happy, he eats Formula 2 pellets, I am lucky. If you get a Mandarin that will take pellets and you put the pellets on a timer you can keep them in a 40g tank. My tank is 203 gallons and was using 60lbs of LR that was over a year old by the time I added the Mandarin, he had enough pods to eat in the tank (200lbs of LR total) but I just happened to get lucky enough with him eating F2 pellets.

If you are not an animal nut, and are not upset by loosing a few, you could always buy them until you find one willing to eat pellets, If it doesn't pan out in a few days, take it back to the LFS and try another one. Again everyones situation is different, but that doesn't mean you can't keep one in a smaller tank, its just not advised cause they are the equivalent to humming birds, and eat all dam day.

Ryand63 · 04/17/2012, 07:59 PM

If you buy pods monthly let's say and feed frozen multiple times daily would that be good?

Tmoriarty · 04/17/2012, 08:03 PM

The pods, like sk8r said, will be eaten quickly, if you buy 8k pods a month, they will last a few days. The purpose of waiting for a tank to mature is the pods breed and reproduce faster than the mandarin can eat them. This means a bigger tank and lots of LR, and quite established. Brine shrimp are not very nutrious, and do not supply the needed stuff for healthy mandarins.

IMHO this doesn't mean you can't keep one, it just means you should get one that is eating something other than frozen brine.

WetShepherd · 04/17/2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maaka

I should have been more specific. It is eating frozen brine shrimp.

but i'm not really planning on getting it anymore unless the frozen brine shrimp changes everything somehow.

Good call. The truth is, whether a mandarin eats frozen food or not makes absolutely no difference. As noted, they need to eat constantly and frozen food is generally only present for a few minutes a day.

I gave this a go with my tank, a marginal system, and the pods vanished way too fast - at least so far as I could tell. I ended up removing him and returning him to the store a couple of months later. I understand he's doing well in a much larger (and older) tank.

(note: if anyone finding this thread later is in a similar boat and wondering how to get their mandarin out of the tank - nab him at night when he's in the open - they get dopey/sleepy and easy to grab)

cloak · 04/17/2012, 11:01 PM

I like to make sure my fish is eating before I buy it, copepods aside... (my clownfish picks the "pods" off the glass)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

cloak · 04/18/2012, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

Brine is a very low nitritional food.

I agree, but I've seen too many baby cichlids bulk up on nothing but brine shrimp. JME.

Kind of a myth IMO...

Paul B · 04/18/2012, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Good call. The truth is, whether a mandarin eats frozen food or not makes absolutely no difference. As noted, they need to eat constantly and frozen food is generally only present for a few minutes a day

I agree with this completely. I feel that mandarins are the easiest, least demanding fish there is because they take care of themselves, but not in a very clean or new tank. I have two mandarins and a scooter bleeny in a 100 gallon tank and they generally live for years with no help from me. I recently built a feeder that serves them baby brine shrimp all day but this is just to suppliment the pods because I also have blue stripe pipefish that eat pods. They all love the baby brine but they also have enough pods in the tank to satisfy them. But the tank is very old and not sterile.

sponger0 · 04/18/2012, 06:35 AM

Dont depends on a mandarin eat prepared/frozen foods.

I think its great ORA has tried to make things easier to own a mandarin, but 50/50 chance its doesnt help.

And just because its eating preparedi n the store, doesnt mean its going to eat that when you get it home. You need a well established system with pods and competition for food in the tank.

How big is your tank? How long has it been running? What is your current livestock? Do you have a sump?

These are questions we need answers to. Ignore the fish eats brine.

04/16/2012, 08:15 PM	#1
Maaka Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 329	Mandarin advice. A mandarin i'm interested in at the lfs is eating brine shrimp. (I have seen it in person.) My question is will they eat mysis shrimp and other frozen food now or will it still just take only brine?

04/16/2012, 08:18 PM	#2
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	Brine is a very low nitritional food. The fact that it is eating brine is no guarantee that it will accept frozen/prepared foods. How big is your tank? How old? How much live rock? Mandarins, even ORA bred, need very large, well established tanks to thrive. __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

04/16/2012, 08:32 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Can I keep a mandarin or scooter? Posted 03/03/2012 at 09:44 AM by Sk8r A mandy should be making a successful 'kill' of a pod every 5 seconds to remain healthy. Keeping one in a well-established 50 with 50 lbs of holey rock, and a mature, year-old 20 gallon fuge with another 20 lbs of rock is very marginal. If you meet those conditions and there is no competition for pods, you can do it with caution. To run the math, there are 86400 seconds in 24 hours...and given 12 hours of dark when it is not eating (it actually eats before the lights come on...that is 43200 seconds of daylight, divided by 5 (every five seconds)---meaning that a mandy eats about 8640 pods a day, or 720 an hour. Two thousand pods, if fed to it in the required concentration, will be eaten in less than 3 hours. If you have a pair---do the math. You need at least 100 gallons supported by a very large, strong fuge with cheato and live rock. Note that mandarins and scooters are the one type (dragonets) exempt from quarantine, You take your chances, this once. Their difficult diet makes quarantine a no-go: fortunately their extreme protective slime coat does not allow them to host the ich parasite (unless the fish is sick and/or in bad water conditions [particularly very low alkalinity.]) IE, they can get it, but it is very, very rare. Their slime coat is so thick they feel like a handful of warm Jell-o, and they are frequently believed to have ich---when they have simply gotten some white sand grains stuck to the slime coat. They have no sense of territoriality toward other species (and will violate territory completely oblivious to the other fish's objections.) They will, however, kill ANY other mandarin that appears if the hunting is not very, very, very good. If you do not start out with a mated pair, don't try to put another mandy in later. If you have the right tank and are willing to risk the no-quarantine dice roll on a pretty solid bet---they're a very pretty addition to your tank, usually out even before the lights are on, terrorizing the pod population. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/17/2012, 03:51 PM	#5
Reefmedic79 Life and Reef Saver Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Tavares, Florida Posts: 6,202	I would say no go for the mandarin, you stated it's eating brine not frozen, as mentioned before if it's eating brine doesn't mean that it will eat frozen. I'd think that only an advanced aquarist may be able to keep one in a tank similar to yours, but it would also include a well established fuge. I also think culturing your own pods would be needed to help supplement the population. __________________ ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸. ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> How much deeper would the ocean be if it didn't have sponges? P. Sherman 42 Wallaby Way Sid Current Tank Info: 40 Breeder, 20L Sump, 10G Fuge, JBJ A.T.O, 4" Reef Octopus, DIY Stand & Canopy, RapidLED Dimmable 36 Kit on 3 6" MakersLED Heatsink, MP10es

04/17/2012, 07:57 PM	#7
Tmoriarty Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Visalia, Ca Posts: 1,040	... My mandarin is fat and happy, he eats Formula 2 pellets, I am lucky. If you get a Mandarin that will take pellets and you put the pellets on a timer you can keep them in a 40g tank. My tank is 203 gallons and was using 60lbs of LR that was over a year old by the time I added the Mandarin, he had enough pods to eat in the tank (200lbs of LR total) but I just happened to get lucky enough with him eating F2 pellets. If you are not an animal nut, and are not upset by loosing a few, you could always buy them until you find one willing to eat pellets, If it doesn't pan out in a few days, take it back to the LFS and try another one. Again everyones situation is different, but that doesn't mean you can't keep one in a smaller tank, its just not advised cause they are the equivalent to humming birds, and eat all dam day. __________________ Tyler Current Tank Info: Tanks: 203g custom, Mixed Reef, SRO-3000, Vortech-Powered (x2 MP40) 75g sump with 15g Fuge section

04/16/2012, 08:26 PM	#3
Maaka Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 329	I know I need tons of pods to feed it. That is why i was only going to buy one if it was already eating frozen food. and i have a 41 gallon with 50 pounds of lr and it is about 7.5 months old.

04/17/2012, 07:50 PM	#6
Maaka Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 329	I should have been more specific. It is eating frozen brine shrimp. but i'm not really planning on getting it anymore unless the frozen brine shrimp changes everything somehow.

04/17/2012, 07:59 PM	#8
Ryand63 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,045	If you buy pods monthly let's say and feed frozen multiple times daily would that be good?

04/17/2012, 08:03 PM	#9
Tmoriarty Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Visalia, Ca Posts: 1,040	The pods, like sk8r said, will be eaten quickly, if you buy 8k pods a month, they will last a few days. The purpose of waiting for a tank to mature is the pods breed and reproduce faster than the mandarin can eat them. This means a bigger tank and lots of LR, and quite established. Brine shrimp are not very nutrious, and do not supply the needed stuff for healthy mandarins. IMHO this doesn't mean you can't keep one, it just means you should get one that is eating something other than frozen brine. __________________ Tyler Current Tank Info: Tanks: 203g custom, Mixed Reef, SRO-3000, Vortech-Powered (x2 MP40) 75g sump with 15g Fuge section

04/17/2012, 11:01 PM	#11
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	I like to make sure my fish is eating before I buy it, copepods aside... (my clownfish picks the "pods" off the glass) http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

04/18/2012, 06:35 AM	#14
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	Dont depends on a mandarin eat prepared/frozen foods. I think its great ORA has tried to make things easier to own a mandarin, but 50/50 chance its doesnt help. And just because its eating preparedi n the store, doesnt mean its going to eat that when you get it home. You need a well established system with pods and competition for food in the tank. How big is your tank? How long has it been running? What is your current livestock? Do you have a sump? These are questions we need answers to. Ignore the fish eats brine.