What kind of sand bed?

MBizzo · 04/17/2012, 05:46 AM

I'm setting up my first tank and I'm pretty confused about sand beds. I've read that deep sand beds are good, but then they might cause old tank syndrome etc.

I'm thinking maybe just making it about 1" or maybe 1 1/2", I already have about 30 pounds of crushed coral it's the second finest grain size. I want to get a watchmen goby so would that deep be fine?

MBizzo · 04/17/2012, 05:48 AM

Also how much sand should I put in the fuge? Would it be better to use live sand down there with live rock, or will the live rock seed it?

Ron Reefman · 04/17/2012, 07:13 AM

I don't know how fine your crushed coral is, but it isn't sand and that's hard on critters that like to be in the sand (as opposed to on it). And you probably don't want to mix your crushed coral with sand. The sand will all work it's way to the bottom over time and no sand stirring critters are going to dig thru the crushed coral to get to the sand.

As for your watchman goby, Live Aquaria says: It requires a 10 gallon or larger aquarium with plenty of loose coral rubble, ample swimming room, and a sand bottom for burrowing. It rarely becomes aggressive towards other fish, but it is territorial, and will fight with its own kind unless they are a mated pair. It may try to jump out of the aquarium or other small openings, therefore, a tight-fitting lid is required to prevent escape.
See more at:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...228&pcatid=228
If I were you, I'd pull the crushed coral and put in something just a bit more coarse than sugar fine sand.

If you want a DSB (I have one), do it in the refugium (mine is 6" deep and my DT is 1.5-2" deep).

MaxxedMan · 04/17/2012, 07:34 AM

Deep Sand Beds have fallen out of style in the display tank. They aren't bad, but they have enough issues, and enough studies have said they don't really help much, that most people don't bother. If you do one, put it in your Fuge as Rob suggested.

Crushed coral gets a bad rep as holding onto waste and letting it build up, plus nothing can burrow in it. I went with sugar size, an upgrade from the old south down play sand I had last time, and it still seems to fine to me. So again I'd recommend something a critter can burrow through, but your water current doesn't want to toss around the tank.

Goby's need only a couple inches of sand they can move around, where as jawfish needs 3+ inches (or a built cave) depending on the source which is ussually over 4".

a.browning · 04/17/2012, 08:27 AM

As mentioned before, you don't want to use crushed coral as substrate. It simply traps detritus, and becomes a nutrient sink in your aquarium. I would exchange it for some reef sand.

As far as deep sand beds go, for them to be beneficial, they need to be really deep. I believe I read on here once that they need to be at least 6" to even start to have real benefits as far as denitrification. Otherwise, they are good for sand dwelling organisms and fish. At the same time, they can be problematic if they are not well maintained. This means both effort by the aquarium keeper and by animals to constantly keep the sand bed agitated. The major concern here is hydrogen sulfide accumulation in the sandbed. When this gas releases or is disturbed in the sand bed, it can be devastating to the tank inhabitants. Also, while not to the extent of crushed coral, the sand bed will trap nutrients over time. I currently run a sand bed of about 4", but when I upgrade I will be going to 1-1.5". You commonly see RDSBs, which is a remote deep sand bed, isolated from the display. In the case of detrimental effects, the RDSB can be removed from the system if needed, at least much easier than if the sand bed was in the main tank. Hope this helps!

Jgut3 · 04/17/2012, 08:30 AM

Special grade reef sand...you'll thank me later.

MBizzo · 04/17/2012, 11:01 AM

Ok so reef sand is better? The whole reason I got the crushed coral was because my lfs told me its high in calcium and other nutrients. Should I return it for sand? I'm just worried that it's going to get blown around by my powerheads.

a.browning · 04/17/2012, 02:06 PM

Crushed coral really has the same composition as reef sand. The fact it has calcium and other nutrients really doesn't matter too much. For your tank to benefit from these elements, the sand would have to dissolve. Obviously, your sand doesn't completely dissolve in the water, but a tiny amount does over time. So whether you get sand or crushed coral, the calcium benefits are minimal and the same.

The nice thing about reef grade sand is that it normally won't blow around too much by powerheads. Sure, if you point any powerhead straight at the sand it'll go crazy, but for most tank's normal flow patterns, this is not an issue. You would be fine with sand, such as Caribsea special grade reef sand or Tropic Eden Reef Flakes. I would definately return the CC for sand, in the long run you and your system will be much happier.

Jgut3 · 04/17/2012, 04:11 PM

I would return it too. CC can become a detritus trap very easily and that's why most ppl steer clear of it.

drew2007 · 04/17/2012, 04:56 PM

I would get rid of the crushed coral and go with a 1"-1.5" sandbed and put a deep sand bed in your fuge. Id say 3"-4" with some chaeto or live rock rubble.

cloak · 04/17/2012, 11:25 PM

If your afraid of the sand in your DT, there's really no reason to put it in your sump/refuge IMO... Got DSB?

Burp alert!

MBizzo · 04/18/2012, 03:31 AM

Alright I think im gonna go pick up a 40 lb bag of caribsea reef sand. I might just get the "Live sand" its a few dollars more and even though there probably isn't much actually alive in there at least theres something. Hopefully I can find the receipt for the crushed coral! What are some good methods for rinsing the sand? And should i rinse the live sand if I do get that?

Jgut3 · 04/18/2012, 03:46 AM

Don't ever rinse live sand. As for rinsing the reef sand some poke holes in the bag and rinse like that. Other put the sand in a bucket and swirl it around clean it off. Reef sand is kinda dusty too btw so just be sure to give it a good rinse. Here's a pic of mine in the tank.

MBizzo · 04/18/2012, 04:10 AM

So I took a look at the special grade reef sand and it isn't as white as I would like. I want something thats bright white and the special grade sand is actually about the same grain size as my crushed coral. Can somebody recommend something that wont blow around and is white?

04/17/2012, 05:46 AM	#1
MBizzo Moved On Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 157	What kind of sand bed? I'm setting up my first tank and I'm pretty confused about sand beds. I've read that deep sand beds are good, but then they might cause old tank syndrome etc. I'm thinking maybe just making it about 1" or maybe 1 1/2", I already have about 30 pounds of crushed coral it's the second finest grain size. I want to get a watchmen goby so would that deep be fine?

04/17/2012, 07:13 AM	#3
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	I don't know how fine your crushed coral is, but it isn't sand and that's hard on critters that like to be in the sand (as opposed to on it). And you probably don't want to mix your crushed coral with sand. The sand will all work it's way to the bottom over time and no sand stirring critters are going to dig thru the crushed coral to get to the sand. As for your watchman goby, Live Aquaria says: It requires a 10 gallon or larger aquarium with plenty of loose coral rubble, ample swimming room, and a sand bottom for burrowing. It rarely becomes aggressive towards other fish, but it is territorial, and will fight with its own kind unless they are a mated pair. It may try to jump out of the aquarium or other small openings, therefore, a tight-fitting lid is required to prevent escape. See more at: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...228&pcatid=228 If I were you, I'd pull the crushed coral and put in something just a bit more coarse than sugar fine sand. If you want a DSB (I have one), do it in the refugium (mine is 6" deep and my DT is 1.5-2" deep). __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

04/17/2012, 07:34 AM	#4
MaxxedMan Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 309	Deep Sand Beds have fallen out of style in the display tank. They aren't bad, but they have enough issues, and enough studies have said they don't really help much, that most people don't bother. If you do one, put it in your Fuge as Rob suggested. Crushed coral gets a bad rep as holding onto waste and letting it build up, plus nothing can burrow in it. I went with sugar size, an upgrade from the old south down play sand I had last time, and it still seems to fine to me. So again I'd recommend something a critter can burrow through, but your water current doesn't want to toss around the tank. Goby's need only a couple inches of sand they can move around, where as jawfish needs 3+ inches (or a built cave) depending on the source which is ussually over 4". __________________ Red Sea Max 250 - LPS Dominate

04/17/2012, 08:27 AM	#5
a.browning Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 975	As mentioned before, you don't want to use crushed coral as substrate. It simply traps detritus, and becomes a nutrient sink in your aquarium. I would exchange it for some reef sand. As far as deep sand beds go, for them to be beneficial, they need to be really deep. I believe I read on here once that they need to be at least 6" to even start to have real benefits as far as denitrification. Otherwise, they are good for sand dwelling organisms and fish. At the same time, they can be problematic if they are not well maintained. This means both effort by the aquarium keeper and by animals to constantly keep the sand bed agitated. The major concern here is hydrogen sulfide accumulation in the sandbed. When this gas releases or is disturbed in the sand bed, it can be devastating to the tank inhabitants. Also, while not to the extent of crushed coral, the sand bed will trap nutrients over time. I currently run a sand bed of about 4", but when I upgrade I will be going to 1-1.5". You commonly see RDSBs, which is a remote deep sand bed, isolated from the display. In the case of detrimental effects, the RDSB can be removed from the system if needed, at least much easier than if the sand bed was in the main tank. Hope this helps! __________________ 75 SPS, 80 & 45 Frag Tank, 40B Leather Tank

04/17/2012, 02:06 PM	#8
a.browning Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 975	Crushed coral really has the same composition as reef sand. The fact it has calcium and other nutrients really doesn't matter too much. For your tank to benefit from these elements, the sand would have to dissolve. Obviously, your sand doesn't completely dissolve in the water, but a tiny amount does over time. So whether you get sand or crushed coral, the calcium benefits are minimal and the same. The nice thing about reef grade sand is that it normally won't blow around too much by powerheads. Sure, if you point any powerhead straight at the sand it'll go crazy, but for most tank's normal flow patterns, this is not an issue. You would be fine with sand, such as Caribsea special grade reef sand or Tropic Eden Reef Flakes. I would definately return the CC for sand, in the long run you and your system will be much happier. __________________ 75 SPS, 80 & 45 Frag Tank, 40B Leather Tank

04/17/2012, 05:48 AM	#2
MBizzo Moved On Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 157	Also how much sand should I put in the fuge? Would it be better to use live sand down there with live rock, or will the live rock seed it?

04/17/2012, 08:30 AM	#6
Jgut3 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 36	Special grade reef sand...you'll thank me later.

04/17/2012, 11:01 AM	#7
MBizzo Moved On Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 157	Ok so reef sand is better? The whole reason I got the crushed coral was because my lfs told me its high in calcium and other nutrients. Should I return it for sand? I'm just worried that it's going to get blown around by my powerheads.

04/17/2012, 04:11 PM	#9
Jgut3 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 36	I would return it too. CC can become a detritus trap very easily and that's why most ppl steer clear of it.

04/17/2012, 04:56 PM	#10
drew2007 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 976	I would get rid of the crushed coral and go with a 1"-1.5" sandbed and put a deep sand bed in your fuge. Id say 3"-4" with some chaeto or live rock rubble. __________________ 110g rimless, Elite Aquatics sump, JNS ConeS Co2, ATI Sunpower, Vortech, Digital Aquatics RKE

04/17/2012, 11:25 PM	#11
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	If your afraid of the sand in your DT, there's really no reason to put it in your sump/refuge IMO... Got DSB? Burp alert! Last edited by cloak; 04/18/2012 at 12:05 AM.

04/18/2012, 03:31 AM	#12
MBizzo Moved On Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 157	Alright I think im gonna go pick up a 40 lb bag of caribsea reef sand. I might just get the "Live sand" its a few dollars more and even though there probably isn't much actually alive in there at least theres something. Hopefully I can find the receipt for the crushed coral! What are some good methods for rinsing the sand? And should i rinse the live sand if I do get that?

04/18/2012, 04:10 AM	#14
MBizzo Moved On Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 157	So I took a look at the special grade reef sand and it isn't as white as I would like. I want something thats bright white and the special grade sand is actually about the same grain size as my crushed coral. Can somebody recommend something that wont blow around and is white?