Questions about HT and CopperSafe

[Aslan14]

Hey all! I have read thru as many threads as I can but my eyes are crossed now so I will just post my questions.

I recently bought a coral beauty, had her in QT for almost 1 month and then into my DT she went.
Then came the ich... Sigh, maybe 6 weeks would've been better? So it showed up on my powder brown tang (which from what I have read Tangs are very susceptible to ich) and my pink skunk clown. Lucky for me I have a DIY blue and white LED light which allowed me to spot the ich on the clown when just the blues were on. Otherwise I don't know that I would have seen it No one else in the tank, including the coral beauty, is showing any signs of ich.

Both fish are currently in a HT which I am treating with CopperSafe. I read that this type of treatment can be hard on the Tangs so I started off with 1/2 the recommended dosage. This has left me with a .25ppm copper level in tank. Other parameters are;
pH 8.2
Nitrate 10ppm
Nitrate 0
Alkalinity 300
Temp 80degF
Specific gravity is about 1.023.

Tang is currently happily munching on some sushi paper and earlier gobbled up some mysis shrimp I smashed into some fresh garlic (which does not leave a particularly good smell in my kitchen! ). Pink skunk is looking rather depressed, but not trying to rub on anything and she is not breathing particularly hard, but she isn't making much of a move to eat either.

So my questions are;

1. Should I increase the amount of copper in the water?

2. How long should I treat them both?

3. Should I increase the temperature?

4. Should I feed garlic with the frozen mysis shrimp at every feeding? (both in my DT and HT?)

5. Should I still do weekly water changes in the HT?

6. After the treatment, do I need to slowly reduce the amount of copper in the HT to acclimate them, or can I put them back into my DT?

Thanks in advance for all of your advice :-)

[MrTuskfish]

Some comments, in no particular order. I use Cupramine, but Coppersafe is a good brand; there man be some little treatment differences between brands. Cu at less than about .35ppm is not effective against ich. Increase at a slower rate than the directions say (unless fish are in real trouble). Tangs generally handle Cu very well, they are probably treated with it more than any other group of fish. Fish should be kept at an effective dose of Cu for 4 weeks, remove CU (WCs, carbon, or Cuprisorb) then observed closely for another 2 weeks. Its a good idea to acclimate them to the HT and get them eating before adding Cu. If they stop eating, that is often the first sign of Cu intolerance. Ammonia is going to be a big problem unless you were prepared with a cycled filter. Plan lots of WCs and get an ammonia-alert badge. Most ammonia tests don't work with Cu. You'll also need a Cu test kit that is compatible with Coppersafe, sounds like you may have one. Feed their normal diet and remove uneaten food promptly. Ich infested fish need a good diet. Garlic is fine, but it does nothing to cure ich. Keep the normal temp.

Now the main point: All of your fish need to be treated, not just the two that show symptoms. once ich is in a tank, all fish will carry some of it and many ich tomonts are in the substrate , waiting to release hundreds of new parasites. Ich will appear and disappear regularly; it isn't always visible. The only way to rid the DT of ich is to keep it fishless for 10-12 weeks.

[Aslan14]

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

Some comments, in no particular order. I use Cupramine, but Coppersafe is a good brand; there man be some little treatment differences between brands. Cu at less than about .35ppm is not effective against ich. Increase at a slower rate than the directions say (unless fish are in real trouble). Tangs generally handle Cu very well, they are probably treated with it more than any other group of fish. Fish should be kept at an effective dose of Cu for 4 weeks, remove CU (WCs, carbon, or Cuprisorb) then observed closely for another 2 weeks. Its a good idea to acclimate them to the HT and get them eating before adding Cu. If they stop eating, that is often the first sign of Cu intolerance. Ammonia is going to be a big problem unless you were prepared with a cycled filter. Plan lots of WCs and get an ammonia-alert badge. Most ammonia tests don't work with Cu. You'll also need a Cu test kit that is compatible with Coppersafe, sounds like you may have one. Feed their normal diet and remove uneaten food promptly. Ich infested fish need a good diet. Garlic is fine, but it does nothing to cure ich. Keep the normal temp.

Now the main point: All of your fish need to be treated, not just the two that show symptoms. once ich is in a tank, all fish will carry some of it and many ich tomonts are in the substrate , waiting to release hundreds of new parasites. Ich will appear and disappear regularly; it isn't always visible. The only way to rid the DT of ich is to keep it fishless for 10-12 weeks.

Alrighty, I increased the dosage of CopperSafe this morning and brought it up to 0.50ppm. The Tang is still looking good and eating, the clown is definitely looking more lively but I am not holding my breath.

The Cu test kit I bought tests for total copper (free and chelated; since the CopperSafe is chelated copper), so I think I am alright there.

I think where I was going with the garlic was to make the food more enticing so they would eat and keep up their strength/immunity.

For the ammonia, my hubs is going to get a test kit/badge right now. For some reason I thought the amount of ammonia in the tank had direct bearing on the pH.. apparently wrong! Guess this is all a learning experience, right?

And for the DT... I currently don't have a big enough HT or QT to hold my entire stock. I know that the parasites can still be present in the substrate of the tank and bodies of the other fish. What are your thoughts on UV filters? I seriously had just bought one and hadn't even hooked it up before this whole thing happened. I know that is can only kill what is in the water; maybe my diamond goby can take care of the rest in the live sand LOL
I hate to say this, but for now I may just have to battle each outbreak as they come until I can get a suitable QT and leave my DT alone for a couple of months.

Thanks again for your advice, it is much appreciated :-)

[MrTuskfish]

UV cannot eliminate ich. New parasites emerge from the substrate, usually at night. Fish sleep on the substrate. Every newly emerging parasite must find the UV intake before it finds a fish host---that won't happen. Good luck; sometimes ich will hold off a while---but it always wins eventually.