Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate Spikes

Nicko86 · 05/09/2012, 09:47 PM

We'll I was going to use my old post but I guess this forum deletes posts after a certain length of time it doesn't get used. Anyway my ammonia levels were staying about 0.25ppm for 2 weeks straight. I tested my water and here are my new readings.

Ammonia- 3.0ppm
Nitrite- 1.0ppm
Nitrate- 10ppm

Now do I need to do a water change or just allow the cycle to do its thing? I'm not really sure if im waiting for the Nitrite to eat away the ammonia then the nitrate to get rid of the nitrite, then a water change to get rid of the nitrate?

I've been letting this tank cycle for a month now and with 30pounds of live sand 25 pounds of live rock. I also seeded it with a friend of mines sand that has had his tank established for many years now. Just wasn't expecting it to take as long but I understand every tank is different. I am using a skimmer and a filter.

Tank- 29g biocube
Filter- BioBalls, Reg filter, and skimmer

Nicko86 · 05/09/2012, 09:48 PM

Btw when my ammonia levels were staying at 0.25ppm. My Nitrites and Nitrates were staying at 0.

BIG_KAHUNA · 05/09/2012, 10:17 PM

This sounds off. Normally the tank will have cycled within a month. What method have you been using to get ammonia in the tank?

Yes, a few different types of bacteria will "eat" the NH3 and convert it into nitrite (NO2) and then again with different bacteria that take NO2 and convert it into Nitrate (NO3). Then water changes can reduce the NO3 concentration in the tank. Anaerobic bacteria that live deep in sand beds or deep inside of dense pieces of live rock. They will take the NO3 and convert it into N2(gas) which evaporates out of tank, harmlessly. It should be one after another (spikes in your testing).

SushiGirl · 05/09/2012, 10:21 PM

Let it cycle. Looks like you're getting a good ammonia spike.
Your other thread is here.
If you click on your profile, you can select the Statistics tab & find all your posts.

Nicko86 · 05/09/2012, 10:27 PM

I've just been doing what my LFS has been telling me to do. Continuing to dose my aquarium daily with the Seacham Stability to get bacteria in the water. 2 1/2 weeks ago I had a bad algae die off and the tank was real cloudy. Since it's cleared up the tank hasn't been too bad algae wise although it is making a comeback on my rocks and parts of my glass. Now I do have a really bad Amphipod problem, I mean I guess its not that big of a problem but I do have about a thousand of those little guys in my tank. Not sure if they are dying and its causing these spikes or what. They are causing a bunch of poop to be on the sand, or i'm guessing that's what that brown stuff is.. lol. Anyways I havent been doing anything to get my ammonia levels up. Suprised the hell out of me when I saw the new readings.

hollister · 05/09/2012, 10:28 PM

Do you have a powerhead for water movement. Good water movement is vital.

Nicko86 · 05/09/2012, 10:33 PM

Yeah I've been making sure there is plenty of movement in there. There's the power head from the sump and a 120gph power head blowing the opposite direction.

hollister · 05/09/2012, 10:36 PM

You want about 300 gph in there. Not sure what the other pump flows at. After 1 month you should see zero ammonia. HAve u done anything like add new rock while it was cycling?

Nicko86 · 05/09/2012, 10:41 PM

Oh ok, guess that will be my next investment then. But no I haven't added a thing, those Amphipod's came out of no where but im going to take it that's probably not what caused. I just figured it was either them or algae that was dying off that was causing this.

hollister · 05/09/2012, 10:45 PM

Atop adding the sea chem. Turn lights out a few days and a 10% water change. The brown stuff is detris. Also always check your readins in the morning around the same time for best results.

I think adding a few crabs and snails would be a good idea.

Nicko86 · 05/10/2012, 06:47 AM

Ok well this morning I checked my levels.

Ammonia- 1.5-2.0ppm
Nitrite- 2.0ppm
Nitrate-20ppm

Do I need to keep my ammonia levels up or just allow it to drop to 0 on it's own now that it's spiked?

sponger0 · 05/10/2012, 06:49 AM

Yeah Id say something is off. You should have cycled by now.

Also agree you need more flow. The return pump is 230 gph. But thats on a minimal effect. I would also reccomend a 300-400 gph powerhead

Nicko86 · 05/10/2012, 07:17 AM

So what do I need to do? Dump the water and just start all over?

sponger0 · 05/10/2012, 07:25 AM

You could try throwing some purigen in the sump to see if that helps. But I usually am against chemical patching if the tank cant hold its own...but its worth a shot before trying to restart

BIG_KAHUNA · 05/10/2012, 09:13 AM

You HAVE to continue adding NH3 to the tank. You say you didn't add any? he NH3 spike was likely from rock die off etc. You want a really big NH3 spike to really kick off the cycle. Looks like you have some small colonies growing from random die off. My suggestion to you is to either use the cooked shrimp method, feeding ghost fish method, or adding pure ammonia to the tank. Wait for a really nice sized spike, and then for everything else to spike and zero out (except trAtes).

The LFS really screwed you up by saying to add bacteria and not ammonia. The bacteria is in there whether or not you add "cycle in a bottle", they just need to be fed (ammonia)!

00Warpig00 · 05/10/2012, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko86

...my ammonia levels were staying about 0.25ppm for 2 weeks straight. I tested my water and here are my new readings.

Ammonia- 3.0ppm
Nitrite- 1.0ppm
Nitrate- 10ppm

Now do I need to do a water change or just allow the cycle to do its thing?

I've been letting this tank cycle for a month now and with 30pounds of live sand 25 pounds of live rock. I also seeded it with a friend of mines sand that has had his tank established for many years now. Just wasn't expecting it to take as long...

It seems strange that it would take this long with that much "Live" rock. If that rock has been in there the whole time, I'm curious why you felt the need to seed with your friends sand if you put "live" rock in when you started. Not needed if you put live rock in at the start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko86

Ok well this morning I checked my levels.

Ammonia- 1.5-2.0ppm
Nitrite- 2.0ppm
Nitrate-20ppm

Do I need to keep my ammonia levels up or just allow it to drop to 0 on it's own now that it's spiked?

I would just sit back and be patient... it looks like everything is going fine for a cycle. Again, not sure why it would take this long with live rock in the tank but it sounds from the progression of your Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spike/curve everything is fine. I wouldn't dump the water and start over sounds like you are almost there. I also think an ammonia spike of 3ppm is plenty sufficient. Do you have any pictures of your tank you can post? how bout pictures from the day you put the live rock in. To me it just sounds like everything is happening as it should and that *maybe* your live rock wasnt as live as you thought.

Nick

agruetz · 05/10/2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00Warpig00

It seems strange that it would take this long with that much "Live" rock. If that rock has been in there the whole time, I'm curious why you felt the need to seed with your friends sand if you put "live" rock in when you started. Not needed if you put live rock in at the start.

I would just sit back and be patient... it looks like everything is going fine for a cycle. Again, not sure why it would take this long with live rock in the tank but it sounds from the progression of your Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spike/curve everything is fine. I wouldn't dump the water and start over sounds like you are almost there. I also think an ammonia spike of 3ppm is plenty sufficient. Do you have any pictures of your tank you can post? how bout pictures from the day you put the live rock in. To me it just sounds like everything is happening as it should and that *maybe* your live rock wasnt as live as you thought.

Nick

I would agree sit back and wait maybe the live rock was not that good.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 05/11/2012, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko86

We'll I was going to use my old post but I guess this forum deletes posts after a certain length of time it doesn't get used.

That isn't true. All old posts are still here unless they are removed for violations.

You may just have your settings set wrong and only see newer posts. Even posts from many years ago are still around.

I see you have a total of 8 posts, and I see them all. Is this the one you meant?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2166716

Nicko86 · 05/14/2012, 09:19 PM

Well here's an update.

So I talked to my LFS and talked to them about my situation and they were surprised I hadn't cycled using their process. They said that my tank was just stuck in the cycling process and that I needed a jump. Well I know this might be frowned upon but they recommended that I take some of their water from one of their established tanks, so that's what we did. They said that with the good bacteria that was in their water it might be enough to jump the cycle. Well I did a 50/50 water change. checked my ammonia levels right after. My ammonia levels were at 1ppm, nitrite 1ppm and nitrates 20ppm. I waited 3 days and tested my aquarium to see where it was at. Well to my surprise my ammonia levels are at 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, and nitrates 5ppm.

So I'm guessing my tank is finally cycled? I feel like I cheated the system by doing what I did but it worked. You guys don't think I will have any surprises later on when I start adding fish and some soft corals in a week or so?

hollister · 05/14/2012, 09:25 PM

Starting over not needed. 50% water change may have help but use as last thing. 25 to 30 max. You will judge amount needed by the water readings. If 10% monthly changes work then good if more needed go 15 to 20 % , if more then that needed then maybe something else is needed.

Did you add more flow? Good water flow helps a vital gas exchange at the surface as with pushing the water through the LR and LS.

Nicko86 · 05/14/2012, 09:26 PM

BTW WarPig, I just saw your post today. Sorry I didn't reply back. I'll post some pictures here in a sec so you guys can see what my rocks and sand look like.

Nicko86 · 05/14/2012, 09:31 PM

I've got 2 240gph pumps in there right now. Water defenitly looks like its got plenty of flow now. I only did a 50% water change because it was recommended by my LFS. They wanted to make sure I got plenty of good bacteria in my tank to get some changes in my cycle.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 05/15/2012, 05:06 AM

FWIW, if you want bacteria, getting an object is usually an easier and better way to go than getting old water. Like some live sand or a rock.

The bacteria doing the cycle are mostly bound to surfaces, not free floating, and taking their water will get some bacteria, but it may get other things that are less desirable (like diseases).

SKurj · 05/15/2012, 05:50 AM

I'd say add some ammonia to 1.0ppm and then test again in 24hrs.

kingevil · 05/15/2012, 08:49 AM

Lol. That lfs is on crack. Bio colony is almost all on the rock, not in the water. There is such a small amount in the water that it becomes a waste of time lugging the water around. I wouldn't trust any water from the lfs, myself.

05/09/2012, 09:47 PM	#1
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate Spikes We'll I was going to use my old post but I guess this forum deletes posts after a certain length of time it doesn't get used. Anyway my ammonia levels were staying about 0.25ppm for 2 weeks straight. I tested my water and here are my new readings. Ammonia- 3.0ppm Nitrite- 1.0ppm Nitrate- 10ppm Now do I need to do a water change or just allow the cycle to do its thing? I'm not really sure if im waiting for the Nitrite to eat away the ammonia then the nitrate to get rid of the nitrite, then a water change to get rid of the nitrate? I've been letting this tank cycle for a month now and with 30pounds of live sand 25 pounds of live rock. I also seeded it with a friend of mines sand that has had his tank established for many years now. Just wasn't expecting it to take as long but I understand every tank is different. I am using a skimmer and a filter. Tank- 29g biocube Filter- BioBalls, Reg filter, and skimmer

05/09/2012, 10:17 PM	#3
BIG_KAHUNA Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: 4.815 S 162.342 E Posts: 478	This sounds off. Normally the tank will have cycled within a month. What method have you been using to get ammonia in the tank? Yes, a few different types of bacteria will "eat" the NH3 and convert it into nitrite (NO2) and then again with different bacteria that take NO2 and convert it into Nitrate (NO3). Then water changes can reduce the NO3 concentration in the tank. Anaerobic bacteria that live deep in sand beds or deep inside of dense pieces of live rock. They will take the NO3 and convert it into N2(gas) which evaporates out of tank, harmlessly. It should be one after another (spikes in your testing). __________________ Scott

05/09/2012, 10:21 PM	#4
SushiGirl Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Fort Worth, TX USA Posts: 8,267	Let it cycle. Looks like you're getting a good ammonia spike. Your other thread is here. If you click on your profile, you can select the Statistics tab & find all your posts. __________________ Visit my Homepage or "My Albums" (via Profile) for hitchhiker pics. Current Tank Info: 55g softy/LPS tank & 20L reef tank

05/10/2012, 09:13 AM	#15
BIG_KAHUNA Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: 4.815 S 162.342 E Posts: 478	You HAVE to continue adding NH3 to the tank. You say you didn't add any? he NH3 spike was likely from rock die off etc. You want a really big NH3 spike to really kick off the cycle. Looks like you have some small colonies growing from random die off. My suggestion to you is to either use the cooked shrimp method, feeding ghost fish method, or adding pure ammonia to the tank. Wait for a really nice sized spike, and then for everything else to spike and zero out (except trAtes). The LFS really screwed you up by saying to add bacteria and not ammonia. The bacteria is in there whether or not you add "cycle in a bottle", they just need to be fed (ammonia)! __________________ Scott

05/15/2012, 05:06 AM	#23
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	FWIW, if you want bacteria, getting an object is usually an easier and better way to go than getting old water. Like some live sand or a rock. The bacteria doing the cycle are mostly bound to surfaces, not free floating, and taking their water will get some bacteria, but it may get other things that are less desirable (like diseases). __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

05/09/2012, 09:48 PM	#2
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	Btw when my ammonia levels were staying at 0.25ppm. My Nitrites and Nitrates were staying at 0.

05/09/2012, 10:27 PM	#5
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	I've just been doing what my LFS has been telling me to do. Continuing to dose my aquarium daily with the Seacham Stability to get bacteria in the water. 2 1/2 weeks ago I had a bad algae die off and the tank was real cloudy. Since it's cleared up the tank hasn't been too bad algae wise although it is making a comeback on my rocks and parts of my glass. Now I do have a really bad Amphipod problem, I mean I guess its not that big of a problem but I do have about a thousand of those little guys in my tank. Not sure if they are dying and its causing these spikes or what. They are causing a bunch of poop to be on the sand, or i'm guessing that's what that brown stuff is.. lol. Anyways I havent been doing anything to get my ammonia levels up. Suprised the hell out of me when I saw the new readings.

05/09/2012, 10:28 PM	#6
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Do you have a powerhead for water movement. Good water movement is vital.

05/09/2012, 10:33 PM	#7
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	Yeah I've been making sure there is plenty of movement in there. There's the power head from the sump and a 120gph power head blowing the opposite direction.

05/09/2012, 10:36 PM	#8
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	You want about 300 gph in there. Not sure what the other pump flows at. After 1 month you should see zero ammonia. HAve u done anything like add new rock while it was cycling?

05/09/2012, 10:41 PM	#9
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	Oh ok, guess that will be my next investment then. But no I haven't added a thing, those Amphipod's came out of no where but im going to take it that's probably not what caused. I just figured it was either them or algae that was dying off that was causing this.

05/09/2012, 10:45 PM	#10
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Atop adding the sea chem. Turn lights out a few days and a 10% water change. The brown stuff is detris. Also always check your readins in the morning around the same time for best results. I think adding a few crabs and snails would be a good idea.

05/10/2012, 06:47 AM	#11
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	Ok well this morning I checked my levels. Ammonia- 1.5-2.0ppm Nitrite- 2.0ppm Nitrate-20ppm Do I need to keep my ammonia levels up or just allow it to drop to 0 on it's own now that it's spiked?

05/10/2012, 06:49 AM	#12
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	Yeah Id say something is off. You should have cycled by now. Also agree you need more flow. The return pump is 230 gph. But thats on a minimal effect. I would also reccomend a 300-400 gph powerhead

05/10/2012, 07:17 AM	#13
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	So what do I need to do? Dump the water and just start all over?

05/10/2012, 07:25 AM	#14
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	You could try throwing some purigen in the sump to see if that helps. But I usually am against chemical patching if the tank cant hold its own...but its worth a shot before trying to restart

05/14/2012, 09:19 PM	#19
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	Well here's an update. So I talked to my LFS and talked to them about my situation and they were surprised I hadn't cycled using their process. They said that my tank was just stuck in the cycling process and that I needed a jump. Well I know this might be frowned upon but they recommended that I take some of their water from one of their established tanks, so that's what we did. They said that with the good bacteria that was in their water it might be enough to jump the cycle. Well I did a 50/50 water change. checked my ammonia levels right after. My ammonia levels were at 1ppm, nitrite 1ppm and nitrates 20ppm. I waited 3 days and tested my aquarium to see where it was at. Well to my surprise my ammonia levels are at 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, and nitrates 5ppm. So I'm guessing my tank is finally cycled? I feel like I cheated the system by doing what I did but it worked. You guys don't think I will have any surprises later on when I start adding fish and some soft corals in a week or so?

05/14/2012, 09:25 PM	#20
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Starting over not needed. 50% water change may have help but use as last thing. 25 to 30 max. You will judge amount needed by the water readings. If 10% monthly changes work then good if more needed go 15 to 20 % , if more then that needed then maybe something else is needed. Did you add more flow? Good water flow helps a vital gas exchange at the surface as with pushing the water through the LR and LS.

05/14/2012, 09:26 PM	#21
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	BTW WarPig, I just saw your post today. Sorry I didn't reply back. I'll post some pictures here in a sec so you guys can see what my rocks and sand look like.

05/14/2012, 09:31 PM	#22
Nicko86 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 18	I've got 2 240gph pumps in there right now. Water defenitly looks like its got plenty of flow now. I only did a 50% water change because it was recommended by my LFS. They wanted to make sure I got plenty of good bacteria in my tank to get some changes in my cycle.

05/15/2012, 05:50 AM	#24
SKurj Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Oshawa Posts: 539	I'd say add some ammonia to 1.0ppm and then test again in 24hrs. __________________ 40g Long since Mar 2012, 20lbs marco rocks, 25lb live rock, Aquamaxx HoB-1, sumpless, CPR Fuge, 4 tube T5HO, Mixed reef, softies and LPS Current Tank Info: 40g Long sumpless

05/15/2012, 08:49 AM	#25
kingevil Moved On Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: phx/east valley Posts: 917	Lol. That lfs is on crack. Bio colony is almost all on the rock, not in the water. There is such a small amount in the water that it becomes a waste of time lugging the water around. I wouldn't trust any water from the lfs, myself.