help to seed a DSB

[cmarch82]

just want to start off saying im new to the forum and say hi to everyone. I bought a 55 gallon setup from a co worker last sat this had LR (id say 50# give or take) with a cc base and he had a single clown fish left in the tank when we tore it down. i kept the LR in buckets with the old tank water (id say 18-20 gallons) i took out the cc and added 100# of silica sand to get me 4-6" for a DSB. i have since then added 2 emerald crabs, 2 cleaner shrimp, 2 turbo snails, 2 nassarius snails, 2 asteria snails, 5 blue legged hermit crabs, 5 cortez hermit crabs, and a yellow tail damsel (the kids seen nemo so we HAD to get a Dorry.... I'll give them that.) I went thru a bottle of seachem bacteria in a bottle (cant remember the name) and have been doing daily water tests with ammonia,nitrates,and nitrites at 0. There is a lot of hair algae on one of the rocks. There is also some other algae that is green but looks more like tiny branches. There is very little if any coralline at all on the rock. so im not so sure how live the LR is. My problem is I had a tank about 7 years ago with triggers/LR so i couldn't have a clean up crew so i had VERY high nitrate levels and moderate ammonia levels. Then i changed from cc to a DSB in a attempt to get rid of the nitrates but didn't have the tank long enough to see if it would work or not. Back then a few local fish stores would sell me some live sand from their tanks but now i can't get any stores to sell me any live sand. Some refuse and some don't even use a DSB. One in perticular had a lot of corals and very few fish and had nothing but bad things to say about a DSB. Bottom line is i need to kick start the critters in my DSB and I'd rather not spend $100 on the recharge kits i see online. I'm out of options here and need any help I can get please.

[sirreal63]

Welcome back to the madness, a couple of things...

silica sand is sharp and will not make an efficient DSB, it is not conducive to the life you want in it.

a DSB in a standard 55 gallon tank will not have enough surface area to be effective, tank is not deep enough at 12", you run the risk of having a dead DSB which can be an issue.

If you really want to try a DSB then change out the silica sand for oolitic sand, this has proven to be the best sand for this use. I wouldn't even try it in a standard 55, there are easier ways to keep nutrients in check. :-)

[cmarch82]

i did not want to hear that news. oh well i guess i have 4" of sand that's pretty much useless. The reasoning behind the DSB is that if i could have that on top of a skimmer, UV sterilizer..... it would be a plus. if silica is bad was it aragonite based sand that is good ?

[sirreal63]

Yes but grain size is important, you can find ololitic sand online butit still doesn't help the overall problem of too little surface area. The sand under the rocks is not ideal for the biological processes you are wanting, and the narrow tank is an issue. Skip the DSB, use a good skimmer, GFO and carbon and let water changes be the nitrate export. UV is a waste on a reef tank, it doesn't really do much for you except a little water clarity.

Silica sand is bad because it has all sharp edges which abrade and cut, aragonite has smooth edges and will not damage the organisms.

[cmarch82]

i wasn't thinking too much about that since it is VERY fine sand. well its there now so its gonna stay. i'm not sure if it will be a reef tank or not. i have quite a bit of inverts in there with Nemo and Dorry for the kids and that's it. I don't think the light that came with the tank is gonna be suitable for a reef tank (coral life compact fluorescent). MY next question is shoudl i run a sump or wet dry ? if i go with a sump id like to have a refugium in it. if i run wet dry it will obviously be bio balls. I'm leaning twards a wet dry simply because most kits i see come with the overflow box and the sumps i've seen do not. I remember the last tank i had i had a wet dry system and it had a skimmer,uv sterilizer w/ pump, and a return pump to the tank. that was cramped to say the least.

[sirreal63]

You do not need a DSB for a reef, I haven't run one in many years. The light will be ok for soft corals, and you can have a beautiful tank with nothing more than softies. Skip the wet/dry, sump and skimmer and don't make it too hard. Things have a changed a lot over the years, ose old items aren't needed and can be a hindrance.

[GrampaDon]

First where are you getting your supplies from ?
Ben at Coldwater / Klause at Coral Reef / Broadway Aquatics / 33 Aquarium

Curious who is advising you.

[cmarch82]

Ive tried Ben and talked to his dad last week and he said that they dont use sand anymore. If coral reef is the one on Anthony that guy was the one who talked bad about the DSB idea. Broadway aquatics offered me sand in a bag, Aquarium 33 had nothing in stock and after waiting for almost 10 minutes to get help someone walked in after i was there and the lady did a test on water (im assuming the pool side) so i got mad and left. ive worked retial and sales for 15 years and if youre gonna help someone before me and ive been waiting 10 minutes at least im sorry ill go elsewhere. the new store on jefferson uncle bills was like a upscale petsmart and i was actually impressed with the salt water selection. i was expecting worse. they said no on the sand as well. as far as whats in the tank id say its 50/50 between broadway aquatics and the pet warehouse. i used to get stuff from the pet warehouse when it was by the walmart on coldwater.

[cmarch82]

i take it the pet store that was by the target on stellhorn closed ?

[GrampaDon]

Originally Posted by cmarch82

Ive tried Ben and talked to his dad last week and he said that they dont use sand anymore. If coral reef is the one on Anthony that guy was the one who talked bad about the DSB idea. Broadway aquatics offered me sand in a bag, Aquarium 33 had nothing in stock and after waiting for almost 10 minutes to get help someone walked in after i was there and the lady did a test on water (im assuming the pool side) so i got mad and left. ive worked retial and sales for 15 years and if youre gonna help someone before me and ive been waiting 10 minutes at least im sorry ill go elsewhere. the new store on jefferson uncle bills was like a upscale petsmart and i was actually impressed with the salt water selection. i was expecting worse. they said no on the sand as well. as far as whats in the tank id say its 50/50 between broadway aquatics and the pet warehouse. i used to get stuff from the pet warehouse when it was by the walmart on coldwater.

No Ben and his dad don't use sand [but Ben's 56g tank has Aragonite-sand]
I'm surprised Klause [on Anthony] had such a strong opinion about DSBs.
I gave up on 33 7-8yrs ago when I gave up fresh/planted tanks. And yes there service wasn't great then ,but the had nice sword plant selections.
Uncle Bill's.....well 3 fish on 2 different times. And both times they didnt make it out of quarantine.

Originally Posted by cmarch82

i take it the pet store that was by the target on stellhorn closed ?

Yea Steve and Yvonne gave up. He still teaches and she is at Low's now.

[GrampaDon]

I would help out with some coral/sand but my DSB I started about 3mo ago
isn't really doing much yet.

I started it from some stuff from my trip to Inland Aquatics 4-5 months ago.
But so far I'm up in the air if I will keep it in. I am gonna give it longer to start showing life. [So far it isn't ticking me off.] lol

[cmarch82]

i just found some critter on top of the sand before i got on here. it looks almost like a baby lobster ? it is transparent with brownish rings on what appears to be a tail ? it had what looked like antennas as well i tried to get a pic with my phone but it is pretty blurry. whatever it is it looks really cool.

[cmarch82]

Originally Posted by GrampaDon

No Ben and his dad don't use sand [but Ben's 56g tank has Aragonite-sand]
I'm surprised Klause [on Anthony] had such a strong opinion about DSBs.
I gave up on 33 7-8yrs ago when I gave up fresh/planted tanks. And yes there service wasn't great then ,but the had nice sword plant selections.
Uncle Bill's.....well 3 fish on 2 different times. And both times they didnt make it out of quarantine.





Yea Steve and Yvonne gave up. He still teaches and she is at Low's now.

Ive worked for Lowe's for over 6 years now. 5 at the Lima road store. i came to the Illinois rd store 1 1/2 years ago and there is a Yvonne that worked outside with me (I'm all over the store) that's gotta be her. the only one i remember from that store was Chris he had dark hair glasses and a goatee. i remember when 33 had the harry legged hermit crabs that were HUGE i had 3 or 4 of them.

[cmarch82]

Originally Posted by sirreal63

Yes but grain size is important, you can find ololitic sand online butit still doesn't help the overall problem of too little surface area. The sand under the rocks is not ideal for the biological processes you are wanting, and the narrow tank is an issue. Skip the DSB, use a good skimmer, GFO and carbon and let water changes be the nitrate export. UV is a waste on a reef tank, it doesn't really do much for you except a little water clarity.

Silica sand is bad because it has all sharp edges which abrade and cut, aragonite has smooth edges and will not damage the organisms.

If i get a skimmer and GFO won't i have to have a sump for them ? id rather not have a hob skimmer and the GFO has to have its own pump to run.

[cmarch82]

they cant do these inline can they ?

[cmarch82]

anyone ?