sump over wet dry ?

cmarch82 · 05/27/2012, 06:37 PM

i am leaning towards going with a sump over a wet dry simply for the room. in another post i was asking about a DSB for a 55 and it was suggested not to go that route for lack of surface area. i want to decide by tomorrow so i can take advantage of the sales. For some reason the pro flex is quite a bit more then the rest is there a reason for it ? i like the idea of having the socks but if you use carbon and GFO don't they require a canister with a pump to force the water thru ? i don't know what else you could put in the socks. But if i go with the wet dry then all i would need room for is the skimmer. What do you guys use and why ?

doonan75 · 05/27/2012, 07:51 PM

Are you going FOWLR or full on reef? If FOWLR then a wet dry is fine but if you are going full on reef they are nitrate factories. I like a lot of people started with a wet dry and switched to a home made sump. They are easy to make and you can use one section as a refugium for critters and macro algae. I used a 29 gallon aquarium as the sump and used 3 pieces of acrylic sheeting from home depot for the baffles and used clear silicone to seal them in. If you have access to any kind of saw and tape measure they are really easy to make It took me about 2 hours to build and another day to dry and I used a hand saw and dremel to do most of the cutting and fitting.

wildman926 · 05/27/2012, 08:51 PM

Wet dry can be used on a reef with 0 issues. It has been done for a long time. I use a micron pad, under the standard pad to catch as much debris as possible, no different than a sock. It is changed out weekly. I use a combination of bio balls and LR in the sump. Also have cheato and the skimmer in the return area.

cmarch82 · 05/27/2012, 09:02 PM

what is that on the far right that looks like it has carbon on the top of it ?

doonan75 · 05/27/2012, 09:02 PM

So what you are saying is that you took a typical wet dry and turned it into a combination sump/refugium with cheato and live rock. It would still be much cheaper for him to make his own sump.

doonan75 · 05/27/2012, 09:05 PM

It a waste collector for the skimmer the carbon keeps the smell down.

wildman926 · 05/27/2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarch82

what is that on the far right that looks like it has carbon on the top of it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by doonan75

It a waste collector for the skimmer the carbon keeps the smell down.

That is correct. It works flawlessly, and keeps the smell from leaving the container. I would highly recommend it to anyone. It also has a built in shutoff switch to turn off the skimmer(skimmer is plugged inline to it) when it is full, in the event of an overflow, or just plain forgot about it. It is emptied weekly on both my tanks. You can see them HERE

Quote:

Originally Posted by doonan75

So what you are saying is that you took a typical wet dry and turned it into a combination sump/refugium with cheato and live rock. It would still be much cheaper for him to make his own sump.

Not if the wet/dry is on sale!

cmarch82 · 05/27/2012, 09:15 PM

right now i have a lot of inverts in there with a clown and a yellow tail damsel (clown fish came with the tank and the kids seen nemo and they wanted a dorry ill give them that) ill get maybe 1 or 2 more fish tops. i wanted to do this aquarium for them and i also have a 55 gallon freshwater tank for them as well. i have never done corals so i dont know what a LPS,SPS,zoo, or any of the others are as well as what i need with them. i picked up the tank and stand for $100 that included around 50# of LR and test kits, salt, prime (which i only do water changed with ro/di water) and some fish food. the fluval 305 that came with the tank will have to go in favor of the sump or wet dry. thats why i was thinking of going towards the proflex so i can go wet dry or sump but with the price difference i wondered if it would be worth it. the lighting is a coralife fluorescent which is fine with the inverts and might grow coraline but obviously would have to go if i went with any kind of reef setup. i want to go reef so i can get some color but for now im gonna upgrade a little at a time. i'm trying to get everyone's opinion on what they have and how well it works for them so i don't spend money that i don't need to for something that won't work and will end up replacing.

wildman926 · 05/27/2012, 09:16 PM

There is more than one way to do things in this hobby. No absolutes. Just try to export nutrients and waste. How you do it, that is up to you to figure out what works for you.

marty9876 · 05/27/2012, 09:24 PM

One con to a wet/dry on a reef is how the nitrogen cycle takes place. Wet/dry's are too efficient and convert the ammonia/nitrite before the natural cycle in the live rock can do it's place and eat up all 3 in once conversion process. Or something like that. I can't recall the exact argument but seemed logical at the time.

One fact is certain I think, you don't need a wet/dry to have a successful as most reefs run w/o them.

doonan75 · 05/27/2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildman926

That is correct. It works flawlessly, and keeps the smell from leaving the container. I would highly recommend it to anyone. It also has a built in shutoff switch to turn off the skimmer(skimmer is plugged inline to it) when it is full, in the event of an overflow, or just plain forgot about it. It is emptied weekly on both my tanks. You can see them HERE

Not if the wet/dry is on sale!

I really need to invest in one my wife asked me the other day if one of my daughters had a dirty diaper which neither had it took me about 3 min to figure out that the smell was from my skimmer and not a package left by my currently being potty trained daughter.

If the wet dry is less than 100 then go for it and modify it as you progress like wildman did. my wet dry was way to small to make those modifications so I built my own sump then built another bigger one when I changed tanks and stands. Start off slowly just keep in mind that if you do intend to go reef be careful what fish you put in your tank. Some nice looking fish like to eat coral.

cmarch82 · 05/27/2012, 09:28 PM

i've spent all day looking at this stuff online and trying to find the cheapest place and with the holiday sales going on i need to make a decision and like i said i'm leaning towards the proflex because it seems to be really versatile. but its quite a bit more expensive then a wet dry or sump and i was curious as to why ? i like the idea of having 2 socks on there but from what ive seen most people use carbon and GFO and from what i seen they need their own pumps and canisters to work so what else would you put in the socks ? as far as sump vs wet dry i like the wet dry because they come with the overflow. if i buy a sump with a overflow then it comes within $20 for the wet dry. Im a little confused with a 55 gallon tank i can get a sump good for 125 gallons but what size overflow should i match it up with. and return pump. i had a mag 7 before and it worked great but @5' of head its only rated at 420 gph where the 9.5 is 750. is the mag 7 sufficient ?

doonan75 · 05/27/2012, 09:30 PM

The typical wet dry converts the ammonia to nitrate very quickly which is good for fish only but if you modify it like wildmans then the deeper "anoxic" layers in the live rock will contine the process back to nitrogen gas.

cmarch82 · 05/27/2012, 09:35 PM

the last time i had a saltwater tank i had a aggressive tank with all triggers. This brings back bad memories of not being able to have a clean up crew other then a 50 gallon bucket of instant ocean... this time i'm going cheap with the inverts and no intentions of fish and if i do they will be reef safe and 1 or maybe 2 that's it. i know ill need a good skimmer you wouldn't believe what the skimmer i had would pull out in a day with the old tank...

doonan75 · 05/27/2012, 09:38 PM

You can adjust the overflow to match your return. As long as your return pump is not overpowering the overflow. Like if you had a overflow rated for 700 gpm and a pump rated for 600 gpm you'd be fine but if your overflow was rated for 600 and your return was rated at 800 gpm you'd have to gate down your return pump. (on the return side of the pump not the intake) My mag 7 took a dump within a year so not a big fan while my rio has been running strong for years. Like I said before it's really cheap and easy to build your own sump and you can by an overflow by itself online.

wildman926 · 05/27/2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doonan75

You can adjust the overflow to match your return. As long as your return pump is not overpowering the overflow. Like if you had a overflow rated for 700 gpm and a pump rated for 600 gpm you'd be fine but if your overflow was rated for 600 and your return was rated at 800 gpm you'd have to gate down your return pump. (on the return side of the pump not the intake) My mag 7 took a dump within a year so not a big fan while my rio has been running strong for years. Like I said before it's really cheap and easy to build your own sump and you can by an overflow by itself online.

Very good advice here.

I also use a pump stopper to turn off the return pump if the tank fills too much (primary switch), or the wet/dry sump goes too low (backup switch) from Aquahub that I modified myself, with a siren and a backup switch. The basic model can be seen HERE

Here are a couple of pics, using a light, to show it turning off by tripping a switch. Left switch is the in tank, right is in wet/dry sump.

With this and the auto shut off on the waste container, no spills/accidents here!

doonan75 · 05/28/2012, 09:15 PM

By the way if you have never used a sump wet dry or overflow before have extra salt water on hand and add to the sump til the return section is at the level you want then add ro to maintain.

doonan75 · 05/28/2012, 09:18 PM

I learned that lesson the hard way so I'm paying it forward which this hobby should be about!
_

lotusstar · 05/28/2012, 10:19 PM

So are you guys saying a wet dry is best for FO? In a FOWLR would a wet dry be a bad idea if the live rock can revert nitrates back? Or would a regular sump be best in any situation? FO,fowlr, or reef? If someone has a wet dry would a skimmer be necessary still?

cmarch82 · 05/29/2012, 12:48 PM

all depends on the bioload. i had a fowlr tank with all triggers and quite a bit of lr thinking i can have a few crabs that could hide in the rocks from the triggers.... i was wrong. i also had a protein skimmer because you can NOT have any form of clean up crew with them (other then a 5 gallon bucket of instant ocean) so anything that would take care of the ammonia,nitrates,and nitrites the better. my test kit would be orange all the time with nitrates no matter what i did. When i set this tank up knowing this now i thought that if i had any form of a DSB with a fuge that would help the mechanical side of things and ive been out of it for so long i forgot that argonite based sand is better then silica based. i ended up with 200# of VERY fine silica sand (only put in 100#) and i guess my 55s surface area isnt big enough for a DSB. the fluval 305 will need to be upgraded to a sump in my opinion ill be better off that way because it was hard to fit the skimmer in the wet dry along with a uv steralizer and pump as well as a mag 7 for a return pump (mine lasted years so ill go the mag route again) with a sump i can fit fludized media,skimmer,return pump,....... the bad thing with the bio balls is if they collect gunk on them they become a nitrate factory so every so often you have to clean off a FEW at a time (maybe 1/3) if you do too much you can run the risk of the tank cycling again ive been told.

Donkeykong · 05/29/2012, 01:26 PM

Get a good sized sump, this way you can add a bigger skimmer if you need to, or add media reactors for your GFO and carbon( no they dont need reactors but work more efficiently with reactors compared to just being placed in media bags), the sump if correctly sized will give you more options and flexibility in the future where the wet dry will not.

cmarch82 · 05/29/2012, 08:21 PM

i agree i've been there and done that with a wet dry it gets cramped quick on top of the fact that it looks tacky.

05/27/2012, 06:37 PM	#1
cmarch82 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fort Wayne Posts: 38	sump over wet dry ? i am leaning towards going with a sump over a wet dry simply for the room. in another post i was asking about a DSB for a 55 and it was suggested not to go that route for lack of surface area. i want to decide by tomorrow so i can take advantage of the sales. For some reason the pro flex is quite a bit more then the rest is there a reason for it ? i like the idea of having the socks but if you use carbon and GFO don't they require a canister with a pump to force the water thru ? i don't know what else you could put in the socks. But if i go with the wet dry then all i would need room for is the skimmer. What do you guys use and why ?

05/27/2012, 08:51 PM	#3
wildman926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CTX Posts: 2,904	Wet dry can be used on a reef with 0 issues. It has been done for a long time. I use a micron pad, under the standard pad to catch as much debris as possible, no different than a sock. It is changed out weekly. I use a combination of bio balls and LR in the sump. Also have cheato and the skimmer in the return area. __________________ Beware of recommendations by those who don't actually use their recommendation!! The search function actually works quite well!! Tanks:Planet Aquarium 150g LPS, Planet Aquarium 90g Softie

05/27/2012, 09:16 PM	#9
wildman926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CTX Posts: 2,904	There is more than one way to do things in this hobby. No absolutes. Just try to export nutrients and waste. How you do it, that is up to you to figure out what works for you. __________________ Beware of recommendations by those who don't actually use their recommendation!! The search function actually works quite well!! Tanks:Planet Aquarium 150g LPS, Planet Aquarium 90g Softie

05/27/2012, 07:51 PM	#2
doonan75 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Palm Beach FL Posts: 198	Are you going FOWLR or full on reef? If FOWLR then a wet dry is fine but if you are going full on reef they are nitrate factories. I like a lot of people started with a wet dry and switched to a home made sump. They are easy to make and you can use one section as a refugium for critters and macro algae. I used a 29 gallon aquarium as the sump and used 3 pieces of acrylic sheeting from home depot for the baffles and used clear silicone to seal them in. If you have access to any kind of saw and tape measure they are really easy to make It took me about 2 hours to build and another day to dry and I used a hand saw and dremel to do most of the cutting and fitting.

05/27/2012, 09:02 PM	#4
cmarch82 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fort Wayne Posts: 38	what is that on the far right that looks like it has carbon on the top of it ?

05/27/2012, 09:05 PM	#6
doonan75 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Palm Beach FL Posts: 198	It a waste collector for the skimmer the carbon keeps the smell down.

05/27/2012, 09:15 PM	#8
cmarch82 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fort Wayne Posts: 38	right now i have a lot of inverts in there with a clown and a yellow tail damsel (clown fish came with the tank and the kids seen nemo and they wanted a dorry ill give them that) ill get maybe 1 or 2 more fish tops. i wanted to do this aquarium for them and i also have a 55 gallon freshwater tank for them as well. i have never done corals so i dont know what a LPS,SPS,zoo, or any of the others are as well as what i need with them. i picked up the tank and stand for $100 that included around 50# of LR and test kits, salt, prime (which i only do water changed with ro/di water) and some fish food. the fluval 305 that came with the tank will have to go in favor of the sump or wet dry. thats why i was thinking of going towards the proflex so i can go wet dry or sump but with the price difference i wondered if it would be worth it. the lighting is a coralife fluorescent which is fine with the inverts and might grow coraline but obviously would have to go if i went with any kind of reef setup. i want to go reef so i can get some color but for now im gonna upgrade a little at a time. i'm trying to get everyone's opinion on what they have and how well it works for them so i don't spend money that i don't need to for something that won't work and will end up replacing.

05/27/2012, 09:24 PM	#10
marty9876 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 213	One con to a wet/dry on a reef is how the nitrogen cycle takes place. Wet/dry's are too efficient and convert the ammonia/nitrite before the natural cycle in the live rock can do it's place and eat up all 3 in once conversion process. Or something like that. I can't recall the exact argument but seemed logical at the time. One fact is certain I think, you don't need a wet/dry to have a successful as most reefs run w/o them.

05/27/2012, 09:28 PM	#12
cmarch82 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fort Wayne Posts: 38	i've spent all day looking at this stuff online and trying to find the cheapest place and with the holiday sales going on i need to make a decision and like i said i'm leaning towards the proflex because it seems to be really versatile. but its quite a bit more expensive then a wet dry or sump and i was curious as to why ? i like the idea of having 2 socks on there but from what ive seen most people use carbon and GFO and from what i seen they need their own pumps and canisters to work so what else would you put in the socks ? as far as sump vs wet dry i like the wet dry because they come with the overflow. if i buy a sump with a overflow then it comes within $20 for the wet dry. Im a little confused with a 55 gallon tank i can get a sump good for 125 gallons but what size overflow should i match it up with. and return pump. i had a mag 7 before and it worked great but @5' of head its only rated at 420 gph where the 9.5 is 750. is the mag 7 sufficient ?

05/27/2012, 09:30 PM	#13
doonan75 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Palm Beach FL Posts: 198	The typical wet dry converts the ammonia to nitrate very quickly which is good for fish only but if you modify it like wildmans then the deeper "anoxic" layers in the live rock will contine the process back to nitrogen gas.

05/27/2012, 09:35 PM	#14
cmarch82 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fort Wayne Posts: 38	the last time i had a saltwater tank i had a aggressive tank with all triggers. This brings back bad memories of not being able to have a clean up crew other then a 50 gallon bucket of instant ocean... this time i'm going cheap with the inverts and no intentions of fish and if i do they will be reef safe and 1 or maybe 2 that's it. i know ill need a good skimmer you wouldn't believe what the skimmer i had would pull out in a day with the old tank...

05/27/2012, 09:38 PM	#15
doonan75 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Palm Beach FL Posts: 198	You can adjust the overflow to match your return. As long as your return pump is not overpowering the overflow. Like if you had a overflow rated for 700 gpm and a pump rated for 600 gpm you'd be fine but if your overflow was rated for 600 and your return was rated at 800 gpm you'd have to gate down your return pump. (on the return side of the pump not the intake) My mag 7 took a dump within a year so not a big fan while my rio has been running strong for years. Like I said before it's really cheap and easy to build your own sump and you can by an overflow by itself online.

05/28/2012, 09:15 PM	#17
doonan75 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Palm Beach FL Posts: 198	By the way if you have never used a sump wet dry or overflow before have extra salt water on hand and add to the sump til the return section is at the level you want then add ro to maintain.

05/28/2012, 09:18 PM	#18
doonan75 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Palm Beach FL Posts: 198	I learned that lesson the hard way so I'm paying it forward which this hobby should be about! _

05/28/2012, 10:19 PM	#19
lotusstar Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: temple, TX Posts: 327	So are you guys saying a wet dry is best for FO? In a FOWLR would a wet dry be a bad idea if the live rock can revert nitrates back? Or would a regular sump be best in any situation? FO,fowlr, or reef? If someone has a wet dry would a skimmer be necessary still?

05/29/2012, 12:48 PM	#20
cmarch82 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fort Wayne Posts: 38	all depends on the bioload. i had a fowlr tank with all triggers and quite a bit of lr thinking i can have a few crabs that could hide in the rocks from the triggers.... i was wrong. i also had a protein skimmer because you can NOT have any form of clean up crew with them (other then a 5 gallon bucket of instant ocean) so anything that would take care of the ammonia,nitrates,and nitrites the better. my test kit would be orange all the time with nitrates no matter what i did. When i set this tank up knowing this now i thought that if i had any form of a DSB with a fuge that would help the mechanical side of things and ive been out of it for so long i forgot that argonite based sand is better then silica based. i ended up with 200# of VERY fine silica sand (only put in 100#) and i guess my 55s surface area isnt big enough for a DSB. the fluval 305 will need to be upgraded to a sump in my opinion ill be better off that way because it was hard to fit the skimmer in the wet dry along with a uv steralizer and pump as well as a mag 7 for a return pump (mine lasted years so ill go the mag route again) with a sump i can fit fludized media,skimmer,return pump,....... the bad thing with the bio balls is if they collect gunk on them they become a nitrate factory so every so often you have to clean off a FEW at a time (maybe 1/3) if you do too much you can run the risk of the tank cycling again ive been told.

05/29/2012, 01:26 PM	#21
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	Get a good sized sump, this way you can add a bigger skimmer if you need to, or add media reactors for your GFO and carbon( no they dont need reactors but work more efficiently with reactors compared to just being placed in media bags), the sump if correctly sized will give you more options and flexibility in the future where the wet dry will not.

05/29/2012, 08:21 PM	#22
cmarch82 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fort Wayne Posts: 38	i agree i've been there and done that with a wet dry it gets cramped quick on top of the fact that it looks tacky.