Help me, I think my Peppermint shrimp is a bully?!?

Biocubehqi · 06/06/2012, 09:08 PM

Well to start off, we have a 29 gallon biocube hqi. With 30 lbs Fiji live rock, 20 lbs live sand, one false percula clownfish, 15+ blue leg hermit crabs, 4 nassarius snails, 2 turbo snails, a peppermint shrimp, a new little hitchhiker snail (just found him), button polyps,
and a new coral that I'm now not 100% sure what it is..

Beautiful bright green tips on it!

With all that being said,
1) I have come to think my peppermint shrimp is a bully. For the last 3 days we have found blue leg hermit crabs dead with their shells nowhere in sight...

2) ** he is starting to bother the new little coral frags, I think he may have gotten "stung" by it? Lol! The little one on the right in the picture closed up and stuck white things out when he tried to mess with it...

What can I or should I do about him? Will he hurt our new corals?

We originally got him for aiptasia control but now it's under control...

Any advice or help on our issues would be greatly appreciated!

mbd521 · 06/06/2012, 09:17 PM

just a few questions that people.will want to know.. how long has.the tank been set up? what are your water parameters?
from what I've read pepermints are pretty docile... not saying that it couldn't be the culprit, but I would wonder more about other things killing your hermits.... maybe water related.. I know Im not much help, but everyone else.will ask these questions.

Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android

SushiGirl · 06/06/2012, 09:27 PM

If it's a large (old) one, yes it could be a bully to snails, corals, & other shrimp. Never heard of one taking out hermits. Are they tiny hermits?

Biocubehqi · 06/06/2012, 09:27 PM

Lol good point, guess I did leave a few thing out! Thanks!

Haven't gotten our at home test kit in yet, still in the mail... But took a sample in yesterday and
Calcium : 440
Phosphates: not quite back at 0 yet... Very very close had to cut back on feeding our clown to once a day.
Everything else they said was excellent.

Ph was at 8.2.

Our main concern is about our new little corals, want to make sure they will be ok.

ReeferKimberly · 06/06/2012, 09:30 PM

dumb question, are you sure the hermits are not just molting?

(I thought they were dead the first time I saw molts)

Biocubehqi · 06/06/2012, 09:33 PM

Positive...

we have a pile of shells piling up

maybe a crazy killer crab on the loose

johnc99 · 06/06/2012, 10:54 PM

Are the shells broken? Do you hear any popping sounds - like fingers snapping?

sbazain · 06/06/2012, 11:16 PM

is true I had one molt and I thought it was dead a few days later there he was beautiful as ever by the way he's name is bob and the empty shells they like to move from one to another

Biocubehqi · 06/07/2012, 06:00 AM

No popping sounds...

And I have extras in there for them, I got to watch two switch shells with each other a little while back. It was crazy! Lol

Cryptoblennie · 06/07/2012, 07:57 AM

you could've been sold a camelback shrimp, not a peppermint. I understand that happens a lot in the industry. They are known to beat up smaller inverts and such.

Just a thought.

Donkeykong · 06/07/2012, 08:37 AM

yes there are two good points that have been brought
1. Larger peppermints have been know to get pretty feisty, I had one that would attack any new LPS I put in the tank and no matter how much food I would put directly in front of him he would still rip the food out of the LPS. He had to go, unfortunately he was good at hiding so I couldnt get him out so I had to end him...kinda sad.
2. Camelbacks look similar to peppermints and sometimes get sold. They are less reef safe, that is why you see some websites selling peppermints labels TRUE peppermints.

With that said I have never heard of a peppermint killing hermits, I would think it would go after snails before it would brave something that could fight back. That coral looks to be an Anchor LPS, not 100% sure as it is hard to see the tenticals since it is closed up.

Cloudburst2000 · 06/07/2012, 08:50 AM

How long has the tank been set up? Did you use live rock in the set-up or have you added any live rock at any point (even if it's just one rock)? If you have ever used live rock (from the ocean, someone else's tank, or your LFS), it is quite possible that you have some type of hitchhiker. If you haven't heard any clicking, I would probably rule out a mantis or pistol shrimp. Possibly some type of aggressive crab like a gorilla crab? Maybe even a eucinid worm? And I agree that it is possible that you received a camel shrimp instead of a peppermint. They are known to be more aggressive whereas pepps tend to be docile. Can you post a pic of your shrimp?

Biocubehqi · 06/07/2012, 09:20 AM

Well it seems for now that our tank is starting to calm down. Lol! No bodies today, and the shrimp seems to have been put into place when our coral shocked him last night.

This is our little guy, we think it's a hammer coral of some sort?

Also kinda off topic of shrimp but I noticed our other coral doin is and am not 100% sure why?

It started off the morning with this

And now looks like this

Any ideas?

Donkeykong · 06/07/2012, 10:31 AM

I meant to say Torch LPS in my other post and with the better picture I am inclined to stick with Torch, the hammers have a more elongated ends as this looks like more round ends. The zoa looks like it is pooping, each polyp has a mouth it can and will filter the water and then poop out its waste, very normal.

DXHippie · 06/07/2012, 12:50 PM

That could also be a frogspawn. Looks very similar to one I picked up a while back.

Donkeykong · 06/07/2012, 01:16 PM

Frogspawn has multiple "heads" on each tentical, in the picture it looks pretty clear that the only "head" is at the end of the tentical, since they appear very round I am going with torch over hammer as hammer tends to be longer and stretched out. I keep saying "head" since technically the green spots that I am referring to are not heads but I dont know what to call them so...

Biocubehqi · 06/07/2012, 01:16 PM

Will my zoas be ok with that peppermint shrimp in there? I've heard they will pick on the zoas..?

Biocubehqi · 06/07/2012, 01:21 PM

Oh and these two are the best pictures I can get of our peppermint shrimp today

IridescentLily · 06/07/2012, 01:29 PM

I have the same issue.
I had aiptasia. I bought two real peppermint shrimp from live aquaria.
They ate every speck of aiptasia i had and the aiptasia have never come back.
I had a blue legged hermit crab that was in the tank for about a year.
The crab was gone pretty shortly after i introduced the shrimp (this could just be coincidence).
The shrimp bully my corals around. Especially my zoas and palys.
They don't kill the zoas and palys, but they do kill one or two polyps in each colony, because as soon as i feed my zoas, they actually damage the mouth of my zoas be pulling the food out of their mouths very agressively and pull my zoa mouths inside out.
They also have pulled out food from the mouths of my trachy (wellso). They totally pi** me off when they do that because they actually tore a hole in my trachy, but it's all healed up now.

THEY ARE VORACIOUS PIGS lol. They bug all my lps corals and softies. Not my sps, i think it's because i don't spot feed my sps like i do the other corals. When i put my hand or anything in the tank for that matter, they attack it for food, lol. One of them bit/pinched my hand once or twice, and i even wear gloves when putting my hands in my tank.
So, Yes, in my opinion they ARE bullies lol. But they were, and are, worth it for the aiptasia control.

What i do now is i make sure to feed the shrimp (a big piece of rods food) FIRST, and then i feed my corals when the shrimp have a big piece of food in their grasp.

By the way, I have the exact species of torch coral that you have.

cloak · 06/07/2012, 01:47 PM

I don't think your peppermint shrimp is killing your hermit crabs. Fifteen plus hermits is quite a few for a 29 gallon tank though IMO. By the looks of your rocks & sandbed it appears as if things are going pretty good. (no algae growth) It's quite possible that there's just not enough food to go around and the tank is balancing out the population for you.

a bag of it · 06/07/2012, 01:56 PM

My peppermint shrimp almost completely killed my hammer coral. I had to put a plastic cup over it to protect it, now I'm waiting for it to recover.

Biocubehqi · 06/07/2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloak

I don't think your peppermint shrimp is killing your hermit crabs. Fifteen plus hermits is quite a few for a 29 gallon tank though IMO. By the looks of your rocks & sandbed it appears as if things are going pretty good. (no algae growth) It's quite possible that there's just not enough food to go around and the tank is balancing out the population for you.

We started out with 10-12 hermit crabs, one died and was still in its shell, but we started to get really bad green algae all over our sand, glass, & rocks... Had to clean the glass once or twice daily to see through all the green. So we got 10 more. Then about 2 or 3 days later I found one dead out of its shell in the cave system. Next morning found another one dead out of its shell in the back of our tank layin in the sand, same thing the next morning but along the side of the tank in the sand. Hasn't happened for the last 2 days now so hopefully it was just a territorial thing and now it's done.

Biocubehqi · 06/07/2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SushiGirl

If it's a large (old) one, yes it could be a bully to snails, corals, & other shrimp. Never heard of one taking out hermits. Are they tiny hermits?

They werent tiny, we have tiny ones still which is what was baffling me lol!

Biocubehqi · 06/07/2012, 04:51 PM

Thanks for all the help everyone! I would be lost without reef central!

Biocubehqi · 06/10/2012, 08:06 AM

It's official something needs to be done about my peppermint shrimp. I may try to catch him and take him to our LFS and give him back. I watched him devour our nassarius snail this morning. That snail was alive! I saw it crawl into the caves, 20 min later I did my morning checks, looked into the cave and saw the shrimp on top of my snail, rolled it over and stared to pull it apart! When I put my flashlight on it the shrimp ran away my snail turned itself back over and tried to get away. But to no avail, the bully came back flipped it back over and completely ate it. I saw the shrimp venture out of the cave when I was feeding Bob (our clownfish) and he had half of the snail still sticking out of him!

Any ideas on how to get this bully out of my tank? Without hurting the corals, or clownfish?

06/06/2012, 09:08 PM	#1
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	Help me, I think my Peppermint shrimp is a bully?!? Well to start off, we have a 29 gallon biocube hqi. With 30 lbs Fiji live rock, 20 lbs live sand, one false percula clownfish, 15+ blue leg hermit crabs, 4 nassarius snails, 2 turbo snails, a peppermint shrimp, a new little hitchhiker snail (just found him), button polyps, and a new coral that I'm now not 100% sure what it is.. Beautiful bright green tips on it! With all that being said, 1) I have come to think my peppermint shrimp is a bully. For the last 3 days we have found blue leg hermit crabs dead with their shells nowhere in sight... 2) ** he is starting to bother the new little coral frags, I think he may have gotten "stung" by it? Lol! The little one on the right in the picture closed up and stuck white things out when he tried to mess with it... What can I or should I do about him? Will he hurt our new corals? We originally got him for aiptasia control but now it's under control... Any advice or help on our issues would be greatly appreciated!

06/06/2012, 09:27 PM	#3
SushiGirl Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Fort Worth, TX USA Posts: 8,267	If it's a large (old) one, yes it could be a bully to snails, corals, & other shrimp. Never heard of one taking out hermits. Are they tiny hermits? __________________ Visit my Homepage or "My Albums" (via Profile) for hitchhiker pics. Current Tank Info: 55g softy/LPS tank & 20L reef tank

06/06/2012, 10:54 PM	#7
johnc99 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Los Gatos, CA Posts: 224	Are the shells broken? Do you hear any popping sounds - like fingers snapping? __________________ We must recognize the dignity which all creatures possess, and we must respect it for as long as we have them in our charge. - "Coldwater Fish" by Roy Pinks Current Tank Info: 40B FOWLR w/ Eshopps R-100, Aquamaxx ConeS CO-1, Eheim 3000+ return, AquaticLife 4x39w HO T5s

06/07/2012, 01:16 PM	#17
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	Will my zoas be ok with that peppermint shrimp in there? I've heard they will pick on the zoas..? Last edited by Biocubehqi; 06/07/2012 at 01:22 PM.

06/07/2012, 01:29 PM	#19
IridescentLily Editor-Reefkeeping mag Join Date: May 2008 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 3,858 Blog Entries: 5	I have the same issue. I had aiptasia. I bought two real peppermint shrimp from live aquaria. They ate every speck of aiptasia i had and the aiptasia have never come back. I had a blue legged hermit crab that was in the tank for about a year. The crab was gone pretty shortly after i introduced the shrimp (this could just be coincidence). The shrimp bully my corals around. Especially my zoas and palys. They don't kill the zoas and palys, but they do kill one or two polyps in each colony, because as soon as i feed my zoas, they actually damage the mouth of my zoas be pulling the food out of their mouths very agressively and pull my zoa mouths inside out. They also have pulled out food from the mouths of my trachy (wellso). They totally pi** me off when they do that because they actually tore a hole in my trachy, but it's all healed up now. THEY ARE VORACIOUS PIGS lol. They bug all my lps corals and softies. Not my sps, i think it's because i don't spot feed my sps like i do the other corals. When i put my hand or anything in the tank for that matter, they attack it for food, lol. One of them bit/pinched my hand once or twice, and i even wear gloves when putting my hands in my tank. So, Yes, in my opinion they ARE bullies lol. But they were, and are, worth it for the aiptasia control. What i do now is i make sure to feed the shrimp (a big piece of rods food) FIRST, and then i feed my corals when the shrimp have a big piece of food in their grasp. By the way, I have the exact species of torch coral that you have. __________________ ~April Editor-Reefkeeping Magazine

06/06/2012, 09:17 PM	#2
mbd521 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 113	just a few questions that people.will want to know.. how long has.the tank been set up? what are your water parameters? from what I've read pepermints are pretty docile... not saying that it couldn't be the culprit, but I would wonder more about other things killing your hermits.... maybe water related.. I know Im not much help, but everyone else.will ask these questions. Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android

06/06/2012, 09:30 PM	#5
ReeferKimberly Marley & Me Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Roseville, California Posts: 1,452	dumb question, are you sure the hermits are not just molting? (I thought they were dead the first time I saw molts)

06/06/2012, 09:33 PM	#6
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	Positive... we have a pile of shells piling up maybe a crazy killer crab on the loose

06/06/2012, 11:16 PM	#8
sbazain Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: miami,florida Posts: 322	is true I had one molt and I thought it was dead a few days later there he was beautiful as ever by the way he's name is bob and the empty shells they like to move from one to another

06/07/2012, 06:00 AM	#9
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	No popping sounds... And I have extras in there for them, I got to watch two switch shells with each other a little while back. It was crazy! Lol

06/07/2012, 07:57 AM	#10
Cryptoblennie Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 47	you could've been sold a camelback shrimp, not a peppermint. I understand that happens a lot in the industry. They are known to beat up smaller inverts and such. Just a thought.

06/07/2012, 08:37 AM	#11
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	yes there are two good points that have been brought 1. Larger peppermints have been know to get pretty feisty, I had one that would attack any new LPS I put in the tank and no matter how much food I would put directly in front of him he would still rip the food out of the LPS. He had to go, unfortunately he was good at hiding so I couldnt get him out so I had to end him...kinda sad. 2. Camelbacks look similar to peppermints and sometimes get sold. They are less reef safe, that is why you see some websites selling peppermints labels TRUE peppermints. With that said I have never heard of a peppermint killing hermits, I would think it would go after snails before it would brave something that could fight back. That coral looks to be an Anchor LPS, not 100% sure as it is hard to see the tenticals since it is closed up.

06/07/2012, 08:50 AM	#12
Cloudburst2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,485	How long has the tank been set up? Did you use live rock in the set-up or have you added any live rock at any point (even if it's just one rock)? If you have ever used live rock (from the ocean, someone else's tank, or your LFS), it is quite possible that you have some type of hitchhiker. If you haven't heard any clicking, I would probably rule out a mantis or pistol shrimp. Possibly some type of aggressive crab like a gorilla crab? Maybe even a eucinid worm? And I agree that it is possible that you received a camel shrimp instead of a peppermint. They are known to be more aggressive whereas pepps tend to be docile. Can you post a pic of your shrimp?

06/07/2012, 09:20 AM	#13
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	Well it seems for now that our tank is starting to calm down. Lol! No bodies today, and the shrimp seems to have been put into place when our coral shocked him last night. This is our little guy, we think it's a hammer coral of some sort? Also kinda off topic of shrimp but I noticed our other coral doin is and am not 100% sure why? It started off the morning with this And now looks like this Any ideas?

06/07/2012, 10:31 AM	#14
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	I meant to say Torch LPS in my other post and with the better picture I am inclined to stick with Torch, the hammers have a more elongated ends as this looks like more round ends. The zoa looks like it is pooping, each polyp has a mouth it can and will filter the water and then poop out its waste, very normal.

06/07/2012, 12:50 PM	#15
DXHippie Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 39	That could also be a frogspawn. Looks very similar to one I picked up a while back.

06/07/2012, 01:21 PM	#18
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	Oh and these two are the best pictures I can get of our peppermint shrimp today

06/07/2012, 01:47 PM	#20
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	I don't think your peppermint shrimp is killing your hermit crabs. Fifteen plus hermits is quite a few for a 29 gallon tank though IMO. By the looks of your rocks & sandbed it appears as if things are going pretty good. (no algae growth) It's quite possible that there's just not enough food to go around and the tank is balancing out the population for you.

06/07/2012, 01:56 PM	#21
a bag of it Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 36	My peppermint shrimp almost completely killed my hammer coral. I had to put a plastic cup over it to protect it, now I'm waiting for it to recover.

06/07/2012, 04:51 PM	#24
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	Thanks for all the help everyone! I would be lost without reef central!

06/10/2012, 08:06 AM	#25
Biocubehqi Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 777	It's official something needs to be done about my peppermint shrimp. I may try to catch him and take him to our LFS and give him back. I watched him devour our nassarius snail this morning. That snail was alive! I saw it crawl into the caves, 20 min later I did my morning checks, looked into the cave and saw the shrimp on top of my snail, rolled it over and stared to pull it apart! When I put my flashlight on it the shrimp ran away my snail turned itself back over and tried to get away. But to no avail, the bully came back flipped it back over and completely ate it. I saw the shrimp venture out of the cave when I was feeding Bob (our clownfish) and he had half of the snail still sticking out of him! Any ideas on how to get this bully out of my tank? Without hurting the corals, or clownfish?