cant keep chato

[jdezek]

can anyone give me some reasons why i cant seem to keep chato alive in my refugium? i have a 55 gal tank with a 20 gal refugium, a 130 gal protien skimmer, and i have a small light on my refugium. i have about a 3 inch sand bed in it with a small pump to circulate the water. I've been through 3 clumps and they all break up and eventually fade away. what will cause chato to do that. can too high of nitrates cause it? some sort of water conditions? any input would be helpful.

[xxjrealxx]

Having same problem bump to top


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[lauterbrunnen]

what light are you using? it needs a lot of light.

[pgaudreau]

lighting ?

[jdezek]

I have a small ESU Reptile light fixture probably about 8 in long with 2 light bulbs that are about 6 inches long. got it from the local fish store used, said they used it on there refugium so not really sure what kind of bulbs are in it.

[KafudaFish]

I would go to walmart, HD or Lowes and buy a cheap metal reflector with a clamp for $9 and go get a CFL bulb for it. Pack of 3 around $10.

On the package probably the green ones look for # lumens (light output) and the K reading.

The higher the lumens the brighter 800+ and anything in the 5000 - 6500K range will work.

Put the light as close as you can and run it 18/6. Plants need the dark too. You can do reverse of your display tank.

[super_steve85]

I've already done exactly what KafudaFish has described. AFTER I tried the JBJ fuge light (which puts out very little light; very disappointed with it). I can't get chaeto to grow with either. My reflector w/ CFL puts out 1200 lumens and I've got a small powerhead in the fuge for some extra movement, but I get the same results as jdezek. My nitrates are in the 10 range so there should be some sort of nutrients for it. I'm mainly trying to grow it as a pod home. How much flow does this stuff need? Maybe we are having the same problem.....

[jdezek]

I have two other types of algae in there that are growing good. One looks like a fern the other one is some sort of tree looking deal is has roots that grow in the sand and a trunk comming up and has leaves that grow out of the water. The only one cant seem to grow is that chato.

[jdezek]

Right now my nitrates are extremely high. I wish i could get them down around 10. Thats why im woundering if theres some sort of water condition that will make it die off i.e. calcium, alkalinity, or iron?

[illjoshlli]

I had the same issue for a long time. How new is your tank? It took about 8 months and it is finally growing in mine. I have changed nothing at all either so I really don't know why.. for the first 8+ months it would slowly vanish.. now its growing... not as fast as some say, but it is growing. I'm using the same bulb from 8 months ago.

Id love to know why some people have this issue.

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[jdezek]

I've had my tank for about a year and I bought it from a guy that had it set up for a few years himself. I just put a refugium in it about 6 months ago or so. I've been battling high nitrates the entire time i've had this tank.

[super_steve85]

I've also had my tank set up for a year-ish. Calcium and alk are good...never tested for iron, though. Do you have galvanized pipes? I would think any metals in your water would affect your livestock more that plants.

My chaeto always seems to fall to the only dark corner of my fuge. Not dark dark, just sort of blocked by some piping. I'm thinking of getting some acrylic to make a divider to hold it directly under my light. Is your fuge fully lit?

[irvin3]

does the chaeto and other types of alge have to changed because they become loaded with nitrates ect?

[super_steve85]

Originally Posted by irvin3

does the chaeto and other types of alge have to changed because they become loaded with nitrates ect?

Yes. Generally you would harvest/remove some of the macro as it grows. This is the export of the nitrate nutrients.

[Duotheslayer]

If its turning yellow its an Iron deficiency

[jdezek]

I dont think its really turning yellow...its moreless just breaking into small pieces and just keeps getting smaller and smaller until theres nothing left. my light is right over the chato section of the refug. I did pick up some iron suplement from the local fish store hopefully that will help.

[super_steve85]

Please let me know if it does. I'd love to get this figured out.

[Purple Rocks]

MY guess is that you have a nutrient deficiency.
You say there is no noticeable color change in the chaeto, and that it falls apart like it has dried to dust.

IF you were growing annuals i would say its probably a primary like potassium a lack of this nutrient will dry plants out standing up without showing signs.
You could also have a Zinc deficiency wich would show as a iron or mag deficiency but i cant see that unless your using RO/DI.
This will also turn leaves to dust.

In reef aquaria we have to deal with high PH which inhibits some nutrient up take like Iron, look for any yellow spots.

Also high nitrogen and calcium carbonate lvls can bind MG making it harder for plants to assimilate this element. drying up leaves with barely any indication until u touch them and they fall apart in your hand. Look for rusty spots along with yellowing.

I farm annuals not chaeto so my skills at growing this r not up to par.

Potassium/zinc is my bet if all tests show everything to be perfect.
I didnt read the post stating that you have other algae growing, check it for any discoloration or spots, yellow, brown, purple hue,rust spots.
Get another opinion.
Happy fishing.

[jdezek]

it turns more clear then yellow. all other algae looks good and green. i do use RO/DI water from the local fish store.

[jdezek]

photo1.JPG

This is some of the chato thats left in my refug.

[Purple Rocks]

I cant see to much detail with the picture.
I wish i had more experience with chaeto, never grew it cause i dont like how it bunches together and sinks. I grow clorapa floats close to the surface.
I really don't have years of experience like some on RC,If there was more literature on the subject i would recomend someth'n but i dont want to get blasted for it. I dont want to spread "bad" info.

What i think could also be happening is that with the RO/DI it has nothing GOOD or Bad in it. Your plant takes up nutrients via osmosis and osmotic pressure (surrounding water has a stronger nutrient content then the plant cell) So the cell absorbs nutrients like this, the cell is always trying to "equal" the pressure on both sides of the cell wall. (very simple terms)

however with RO/DI water you can infact reverse this and literally suck nutrients out of the plant.
This is why growers do whats called a "FINAL FLUSH" before cutting a crop. A Tomato jacked on Potassium and magnesium, taste like ****!

PERSONALLY I dose, Fulvic acid, Humic acid and B vitamins, among others. These are both FERTILIZERS, packed with organics, minerals and elements. I have had no I'll effects.DO NOT TAKE THIS SUGGESTION LIGHTLY, IF OVER DONE SLIGHTLY GRAVE RESULTS MAY HAPPEN. I use a few brands from the grow industry. Far above the standards of anything you will ever find in a aquarium store, however these products are formulated for plant growth, NOT AQUARIUMS.

Get a second opinion on this subject i grow plants best.

[Purple Rocks]

I would also like to say that I stand behind Fulvic acid pretty strongly. In todays algrculture, there has been a notice in the drop of this in many of the food we eat today. When land is farmed heavily this complex organic compound is used up quickly. Humans, plants and animals use this to help break down other minerals.
Also skimmers are great, they help alot, i think there are some threads on over skimming and removing proteins and other good organics im a believer of under skimming and letting nature do the converting for me, however you need room.
just my thoughts.

[jdezek]

Thanks for the info purple rocks. I think you might be right with the RO/DI water point. I picked up some iron sumplent from the local fish store that also has manganese, molybdenum and zinc made by kent marine, (super chelated iron). Since i started using it the other types of algae are looking darker green and healthier, unfortionatly I dont have any chaeto to know if it would help it. I really hate to buy more if its just going to die on me again.

[ReeferBill]

If you want your cheato to start growing and not turn clear or translucent and fall apart keep you refugium lights on 24/7 to keep it in its growth stage. Also adding an Iron supplement like Kents or NatuReefs will help it grow..

[Saltliquid]

I use iodine halogen complex for all algae,plus all algae trimmings I kill in hot water and put it back into the water with in a stocking bag to reintroduce its photosynthesised contents.

When algae absorbs-imports it converts, its not the same substances any more, any nitrate as a result of dead algae is just it as dead tissue going through the nitrite cycle like any other dead tissue and as we all know, phosphate is the very end result of any waste so its there when it dies as well and with anything dead.

From what I have witnessed algae has to have iodide-iodine in its early days in particular to survive!

Later on I rely on the cellulose breaking down once it is dead to reintroduce some, I still add a little always though.

I have always used this, plus in the early days of tank maturing the bacteria that starts a narine aquarium before it goes to protists running the nitrite to nitrate part of it may adversely affect chaeto being that it is directly related to blue green algae.