Sump Design

nyknicks4412 · 06/20/2012, 02:00 PM

Wasn't sure where to post this question so I apologize if it is in the wrong area...

In about a month I will be setting up a new 30 gallon rimless tank. I have been going over options for the sump on this tank and it seems only a standard 10 gallon will fit in the stand. This will be my first tank with a sump. I have sketched up an idea of how I want to do the sump. Basically I want to split the line coming from the bottom of the display to drain into 2 areas in my sump. One will drain into the skimmer section and the other will drain into the fuge area. My return section will be in the middle and there will be 2 bubble traps separating it from the fuge and skimmer sections with 1" between the baffles. Below is a sketch-up of my design.

Does this seem like the right way to go about this? Will a fuge of this size even be worth it running just macro algae and sand?

Also for my return pump I plan on using a mag 5 (350 gph when account head loss)...will this be enough for a return or too much?

Thanks for the help!

pop0tart · 06/20/2012, 03:55 PM

In my opinion, any fuge is worth it. You will be running it tight as far as space goes. I have a 10 gallon sump pushing 365 gph from the return pump, and I didn't have an issue with microbubbles until I swapped the rio 800 for a mj 1200 to power the remora skimmer that sits in the skimmer chamber, so in a setup where space is a premium, if my experience says anything, you could get away with less baffles.

Some additional info: 365 gph for the return pump is overkill for my tank. I did it because since my tank is a nano, I was okay with using the return pump as the tank's source of water flow. On larger tanks, it is generally a better idea to not have the return pump work double duty because of the excess heat and inefficiency of using a return for water movement.

Everything seems to be working right now, but I can't officially endorse or condemn my current setup, which seems to be very similar to what you have in mind.

den75 · 06/20/2012, 04:31 PM

Something to consider. How about having both your drain lines go to the skimmer then split your return 75% back to the tank and 25% to the fuge. Just split the return with a T and put a ball valve in the line to the fuge to adjust the flow. This way you can better control the water flow through the fuge and all of the drain water is getting skimmed, not just half of it.

CHSUB · 06/20/2012, 06:55 PM

i have the exact designed sump on my tank, i invented it i think?...the inlet lines are a "bean animal" divided so i can control flow to fug and skimmer sections, with zero noise. i did this so the fug would be fed dt water and returned to dt unskimmed. my sump handles about 3000 gph with a small micro-bubble issue, but floss has work to catch the bubbles. i would say it works well!

griebs18 · 06/20/2012, 07:55 PM

You don't really need the bubble trap coming from the refugium into the return. I have a similar setup only with a 20L sump and I have 0 microbubbles in the DT. You only really have to worry about a bubble trap from the skimmer compartment - This will also give you up to 2" more for the refugium or return.

*Edit for pics of mine*

nyknicks4412 · 06/21/2012, 06:09 AM

Thanks guys for the help! Those pictures definitely helped me visualize it.

If I can get away with removing the bubble trap from the fuge area I will. I plan on having the water flow pretty slowly through it so I doubt there would be too many micobubbles.

I want to go with the two inlet lines because I want to have the fuge directly fed from the tank. My reasoning for this being I don't want nutrients sapped up by the skimmer ect before they enter the fuge. Is this a correct way of thinking or should I split the outlet line and have it return to the fuge like a poster above said?

As for the return pump. For a 30g display 10g sump combo would a mag 5 be appropriate? The tank will be sps dominate so I am not so worried about too much flow in the DT but thaat too much flow will cause microbubbles.

den75 · 06/21/2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyknicks4412

I want to go with the two inlet lines because I want to have the fuge directly fed from the tank. My reasoning for this being I don't want nutrients sapped up by the skimmer ect before they enter the fuge. Is this a correct way of thinking or should I split the outlet line and have it return to the fuge like a poster above said?

I don't think you'll get a definitive answer on this. I posted the same question a while back. About half said they had un-skimmed water to the fuge the other half skimmed. Bottom line, both ways work and it's just a matter of personal preference.

shaggss · 06/21/2012, 06:21 AM

do a search for Herbie overflow and use this. You will have ZERO bubbles from your drain and therefore you only need one baffle to separate the sections. this will save some space. I only use one baffle.

cheers

nyknicks4412 · 06/21/2012, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by den75

I don't think you'll get a definitive answer on this. I posted the same question a while back. About half said they had un-skimmed water to the fuge the other half skimmed. Bottom line, both ways work and it's just a matter of personal preference.

Haha fair enough...one downside I can see to 2 inlet lines is running filter socks. Would you put it on both or just the one to the skimmer section or what? Decisions decisions...just really trying to put a lot of thought into this tank as I have about a month and a half before I can set it up.

den75 · 06/21/2012, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyknicks4412

Haha fair enough...one downside I can see to 2 inlet lines is running filter socks. Would you put it on both or just the one to the skimmer section or what? Decisions decisions...just really trying to put a lot of thought into this tank as I have about a month and a half before I can set it up.

Filter socks can be a pain in general because they can clog so fast. There are a lot of people who don't use them at all. IMO, if I was having tank water dumped directly into the fuge I would at least use a filter sock there to get out some of the larger particles so they don't build up in that section.

nyknicks4412 · 06/21/2012, 07:05 AM

ya that was my concern...I am thinking of just running 2 of them. I have no problem taking them off and cleaning every few days.

this raises another issue with my design though. how will I attach the socks to the tubing. I cannot mount them on the sump due to the limited space so I will have to attach them directly to the tubing. Possibly using one of those draw string style filter socks that can tie on? just don't know what on the tubing I would tie it to.

06/20/2012, 02:00 PM	#1
nyknicks4412 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 199	Sump Design Wasn't sure where to post this question so I apologize if it is in the wrong area... In about a month I will be setting up a new 30 gallon rimless tank. I have been going over options for the sump on this tank and it seems only a standard 10 gallon will fit in the stand. This will be my first tank with a sump. I have sketched up an idea of how I want to do the sump. Basically I want to split the line coming from the bottom of the display to drain into 2 areas in my sump. One will drain into the skimmer section and the other will drain into the fuge area. My return section will be in the middle and there will be 2 bubble traps separating it from the fuge and skimmer sections with 1" between the baffles. Below is a sketch-up of my design. Does this seem like the right way to go about this? Will a fuge of this size even be worth it running just macro algae and sand? Also for my return pump I plan on using a mag 5 (350 gph when account head loss)...will this be enough for a return or too much? Thanks for the help!

06/20/2012, 03:55 PM	#2
pop0tart Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Central PA Posts: 128	In my opinion, any fuge is worth it. You will be running it tight as far as space goes. I have a 10 gallon sump pushing 365 gph from the return pump, and I didn't have an issue with microbubbles until I swapped the rio 800 for a mj 1200 to power the remora skimmer that sits in the skimmer chamber, so in a setup where space is a premium, if my experience says anything, you could get away with less baffles. Some additional info: 365 gph for the return pump is overkill for my tank. I did it because since my tank is a nano, I was okay with using the return pump as the tank's source of water flow. On larger tanks, it is generally a better idea to not have the return pump work double duty because of the excess heat and inefficiency of using a return for water movement. Everything seems to be working right now, but I can't officially endorse or condemn my current setup, which seems to be very similar to what you have in mind. Last edited by pop0tart; 06/20/2012 at 04:01 PM.

06/20/2012, 04:31 PM	#3
den75 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 261	Something to consider. How about having both your drain lines go to the skimmer then split your return 75% back to the tank and 25% to the fuge. Just split the return with a T and put a ball valve in the line to the fuge to adjust the flow. This way you can better control the water flow through the fuge and all of the drain water is getting skimmed, not just half of it. __________________ 150g Reef Savvy DT. 55g Sump, Reef Octopus 3000 Int. Skimmer, 2 Maxspect Razor 27" 16k lights, Water Blaster 7000 return. 2 Vortech MP40's, Apex Controller, Genesis Reef ATO and Auto H2O change Syst.

06/20/2012, 06:55 PM	#4
CHSUB "Certified Hobby Expert" Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 2,038	i have the exact designed sump on my tank, i invented it i think?...the inlet lines are a "bean animal" divided so i can control flow to fug and skimmer sections, with zero noise. i did this so the fug would be fed dt water and returned to dt unskimmed. my sump handles about 3000 gph with a small micro-bubble issue, but floss has work to catch the bubbles. i would say it works well! __________________ Goniopora Police _________________ building a 60"x36"x30" peninsula reef...follow at "NEW TANK BUILD" on reef discussion forum! http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2110638

06/21/2012, 06:21 AM	#8
shaggss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,709	do a search for Herbie overflow and use this. You will have ZERO bubbles from your drain and therefore you only need one baffle to separate the sections. this will save some space. I only use one baffle. cheers __________________ NEVER get eye level with an infants anus! New build, planning stages. 30 x 20 x 20", Geisemann Spectra 250W with Radium, Profilux controller, Profilux doser 2, Fluval SP4 return pump, Life Reef 28

06/20/2012, 07:55 PM	#5
griebs18 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 50	You don't really need the bubble trap coming from the refugium into the return. I have a similar setup only with a 20L sump and I have 0 microbubbles in the DT. You only really have to worry about a bubble trap from the skimmer compartment - This will also give you up to 2" more for the refugium or return. Edit for pics of mine

06/21/2012, 06:09 AM	#6
nyknicks4412 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 199	Thanks guys for the help! Those pictures definitely helped me visualize it. If I can get away with removing the bubble trap from the fuge area I will. I plan on having the water flow pretty slowly through it so I doubt there would be too many micobubbles. I want to go with the two inlet lines because I want to have the fuge directly fed from the tank. My reasoning for this being I don't want nutrients sapped up by the skimmer ect before they enter the fuge. Is this a correct way of thinking or should I split the outlet line and have it return to the fuge like a poster above said? As for the return pump. For a 30g display 10g sump combo would a mag 5 be appropriate? The tank will be sps dominate so I am not so worried about too much flow in the DT but thaat too much flow will cause microbubbles.

06/21/2012, 07:05 AM	#11
nyknicks4412 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 199	ya that was my concern...I am thinking of just running 2 of them. I have no problem taking them off and cleaning every few days. this raises another issue with my design though. how will I attach the socks to the tubing. I cannot mount them on the sump due to the limited space so I will have to attach them directly to the tubing. Possibly using one of those draw string style filter socks that can tie on? just don't know what on the tubing I would tie it to.