What's up with my tank?? Phosphate?

Patrick Cox · 06/30/2012, 03:26 PM

This is a 57G rimless aquarium that has been up and running since January, 2011. I change about 4G every other week and use RODI water. Sump has a filter pad that I clean every other water change. So maybe once per month. Only fish are two clowns and a Coral Beauty Angel. I feed sparingly. You can see the corals from the first picture. Protein Skimmer is working well and pulling gross stuff out of the water!

I also use 2 large algone packs every week and they get good and smelly! I don't do much else to the tank.

Here are the problems I am having and you can see the pictures below:

1. I have a red course hair type algae that I am not sure what it is but it seems to be spreading. (2nd picture)

2. I have a dark green algae on growing on most of the rocks. It looks more like a smooth moss or diatom. (3rd picture)

3. I have something red in the sand. Looks like diatoms but I am not sure. (last picture.)

Thanks for your help and let me know if you have questions.

Salinity - 1.026
PH - 8.0-8.2
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - 2.0+ (from a cheap test kit.) I am guessing this is my problem but I am not sure what to do about it.

Toxic45 · 06/30/2012, 05:33 PM

Not sure how high phosphates affect the critters or water but I'd look into it.

shaggss · 06/30/2012, 05:42 PM

Patrick

that red coarse algae is a pain. I had it and I got an abalone. he got rid of it real quick. check my build thread for pictures of it. don't try to remove the algae by hand as if you break small bits off, it just spread. it is evil stuff.

that PO4 is way too high. get some GFO in there and you'll have to change it fairly quickly too. cut down on your feelings as well.

in a rush but will post more later

SeanT · 06/30/2012, 05:58 PM

Check this thread out for info on the red algae.
It may be the same one.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585144

hth,
Sean

Steve175 · 06/30/2012, 08:05 PM

Don't cut down on your feelings: the ladies like those.
Do cut down on your feedings.
Agree that adding a reactor with GFO would get you in the right direction.
Also: would increase water changes to 10% weekly to help lower phosphates.

shaggss · 07/01/2012, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve175

Don't cut down on your feelings: the ladies like those.
Do cut down on your feedings.

hahahaha yeah wrote that in a rush......

ezerasurfr · 07/01/2012, 06:25 AM

Make sure you use a reactor for the GFO like Steve said. Don't just mesh the GFO, as it will be WAY more effective in a reactor.

I like the nextreef MR-1, it's a little pricey, but worth every penny. You can go cheap and get a "2 Little Fishes" one, but they have a pretty crappy gasket assembly that will end up breaking on you. Or you can pickup a BRS one, I just dont like the layout of those, but they hold up very well.

Patrick Cox · 07/01/2012, 08:42 AM

Thank all, OK, here is my plan...

1. Increase water changes and clean sump sponge every week.
2. I ordered a PhosBan reactor and Granular GFO from BRS.

Two more questions...

1. How often should I feed for my current fish load? I am feeding New Life Spectrum pellets. (Marine.)

2. Will the current algae growth die back or do I need to physically remove it?

Thanks again!!

Steve175 · 07/01/2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggss

hahahaha yeah wrote that in a rush......

(Obviously I was just kidding/thanks for taking my poke in the vein it was meant; despite the rush, your advice was sound.)

shaggss · 07/01/2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Thank all, OK, here is my plan...

1. Increase water changes and clean sump sponge every week.

As already said, increase WC to 10% weekly and remove the sponge completely. They are not really necessary and just another chore.

Quote:

1. How often should I feed for my current fish load? I am feeding New Life Spectrum pellets. (Marine.)

You can feed once a day should be fine, just make sure all the food is eaten in a minute or so. Also fish like a variety so mix it up a little for them. Try some frozen mysis.

Quote:

2. Will the current algae growth die back or do I need to physically remove it?

It looks to me that the red algae on the sand could be cyno. this you will need to remove manually with a syphon. Do it at every WC or in between if it's really bad.

The thick HA, as I said above, an abalone worked for me.

The green stuff you can scrubs off the rocks and use a power head to blast the rocks. It should die off when your nutrients reduce.

Follow the instructions with the GFO. You do not want to reduce PO4 too fast as your corals will suffer.

Also what lights are you using? Do the bulbs need to be changed?

shaggss · 07/01/2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

(Obviously I was just kidding/thanks for taking my poke in the vein it was meant; despite the rush, your advice was sound.)

I am extremely thick skinned so you will have to try a lot harder than that to upset me. Humour is lacking in this world and more is always welcome!

zachfishman · 07/01/2012, 05:44 PM

If you haven't changed out your RODI filters, that could be a contributor.

Patrick Cox · 07/25/2012, 03:37 PM

Hi All,
I have an update on my tank. Roughly 2 weeks ago I bought a Phosban 150 reactor and started running GFO from BRS through it. Well to be honest, I really see no improvement. In fact the red slime seems to be getting worse. I also removed the sponge from the sump. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Fish_King_25 · 07/25/2012, 03:42 PM

Bigger water changes until its improving...15/20% if necessary

jasonrstewart79 · 07/25/2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Cox

Hi All,
I have an update on my tank. Roughly 2 weeks ago I bought a Phosban 150 reactor and started running GFO from BRS through it. Well to be honest, I really see no improvement. In fact the red slime seems to be getting worse. I also removed the sponge from the sump. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Are you leeching phosphate from those rocks? You might try checking that by pulling some rock and putting it in a container with some RO/DI and checking the PO4 reading at measured intervals. Something is introducing food for the algae that your countermeasures are not balancing out

Patrick Cox · 07/25/2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonrstewart79

Are you leeching phosphate from those rocks? You might try checking that by pulling some rock and putting it in a container with some RO/DI and checking the PO4 reading at measured intervals. Something is introducing food for the algae that your countermeasures are not balancing out

Thanks. I will try that. My fish load is very light and beyond that it is corals. I don't even feed the corals and I feed the fish only once per day and sometimes I will skip a day. I wonder if I should crank up my circulation? There seems to be good movement in the tank but I don't know.

On the rocks, so if I put a rock in RODI water and the PO4 starts to climb, what would I do?

Thanks!

Patrick Cox · 07/25/2012, 05:37 PM

OK, I tested a bucket of fresh RODI and the PO4 looks good. Now I have put a large rock in the bucket. No salt or heater. What should I do from here? Thanks!

jasonrstewart79 · 07/25/2012, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Cox

OK, I tested a bucket of fresh RODI and the PO4 looks good. Now I have put a large rock in the bucket. No salt or heater. What should I do from here? Thanks!

Check PO4 after 6 - 12 - 24 hours to see if any is leeching

Patrick Cox · 07/26/2012, 04:04 PM

OK, I had an odd result. The after test of my RODI water with the rock in the water showed a lower level of PO4 than the before. Granted, I don't have a good test kit so I don't know. The rock did have some algae and Cyano on it so maybe that is what consumed the PO4? Anyway, I have ordered a Hannah checker and I am replacing my filters in my RODI system.

Another question, would it be beneficial for me to remove all of my rocks, scrub them down, really vacuum the sand (not much left though) and then put the system back together?

Patrick Cox · 07/27/2012, 06:00 AM

Also, I do have so me debris (detritus?) in my sump. Do I need to remove that? Again, tank is about 18 months old. Thanks!

Patrick Cox · 07/27/2012, 05:44 PM

Also just noticed that one of my actinics is burned out and the bulbs are one year old. I guess I need to order new bulbs as well!

Cloudburst2000 · 07/27/2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Cox

OK, I had an odd result. The after test of my RODI water with the rock in the water showed a lower level of PO4 than the before. Granted, I don't have a good test kit so I don't know. The rock did have some algae and Cyano on it so maybe that is what consumed the PO4? Anyway, I have ordered a Hannah checker and I am replacing my filters in my RODI system.

Another question, would it be beneficial for me to remove all of my rocks, scrub them down, really vacuum the sand (not much left though) and then put the system back together?

Okay, I am a bit confused here. You said the PO4 test AFTER adding the rock to the new RO/DI water showed lower PO4 than it did before adding the rock? Which I would take to mean your new RO/DI water was showing PO4 before adding the rock. But you also said that when you tested the new RO/DI water that 'the PO4 looks good.' Which is it??? New RO/DI water shouldn't have ANY PO4. If it was showing PO4 before adding the rock, then your water source is part of the problem.

Patrick Cox · 07/27/2012, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloudburst2000

Okay, I am a bit confused here. You said the PO4 test AFTER adding the rock to the new RO/DI water showed lower PO4 than it did before adding the rock? Which I would take to mean your new RO/DI water was showing PO4 before adding the rock. But you also said that when you tested the new RO/DI water that 'the PO4 looks good.' Which is it??? New RO/DI water shouldn't have ANY PO4. If it was showing PO4 before adding the rock, then your water source is part of the problem.

Yeah, I think my first test might have been off. I only have a cheap test kit for PO4 but I just ordered a Hanna Checker so I will know for sure tomorrow. Thanks.

Cloudburst2000 · 07/28/2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Cox

Yeah, I think my first test might have been off. I only have a cheap test kit for PO4 but I just ordered a Hanna Checker so I will know for sure tomorrow. Thanks.

I wouldn't automatically assume that the test was off. Sometimes people do show phosphates in their RO/DI water. It usually means that it is time to change out either the RO membrane or the DI resin. What are the TDS of the RO/DI showing up at?

Patrick Cox · 08/01/2012, 07:06 PM

OK, here is a follow up. I just changed my bulbs to 4 new ATI bulbs - 2 Aquablue Specials, 1 Actinic and 1 Blue Plus. So my white bulbs are now 12K and the old white bulbs were 10K. Hopefully this will help discourage the Cyano.

I also received my Hanna Phosphate Checker and my RODI water tested .03 and my tank water tested .06. This is after several 20% water changes over the past week or so. I then tested the water coming out of my phosban reactor and the reading was 0.2. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not but I guess I need to change the media if that is correct.

Corals and fish seem healthy though. Here is how the tank looks now (before new lights.) Still a work in progress...

06/30/2012, 03:26 PM	#1
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	What's up with my tank?? Phosphate? This is a 57G rimless aquarium that has been up and running since January, 2011. I change about 4G every other week and use RODI water. Sump has a filter pad that I clean every other water change. So maybe once per month. Only fish are two clowns and a Coral Beauty Angel. I feed sparingly. You can see the corals from the first picture. Protein Skimmer is working well and pulling gross stuff out of the water! I also use 2 large algone packs every week and they get good and smelly! I don't do much else to the tank. Here are the problems I am having and you can see the pictures below: 1. I have a red course hair type algae that I am not sure what it is but it seems to be spreading. (2nd picture) 2. I have a dark green algae on growing on most of the rocks. It looks more like a smooth moss or diatom. (3rd picture) 3. I have something red in the sand. Looks like diatoms but I am not sure. (last picture.) Thanks for your help and let me know if you have questions. Salinity - 1.026 PH - 8.0-8.2 Nitrate - 0 Phosphate - 2.0+ (from a cheap test kit.) I am guessing this is my problem but I am not sure what to do about it. Last edited by Patrick Cox; 06/30/2012 at 03:36 PM.

06/30/2012, 05:42 PM	#3
shaggss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,709	Patrick that red coarse algae is a pain. I had it and I got an abalone. he got rid of it real quick. check my build thread for pictures of it. don't try to remove the algae by hand as if you break small bits off, it just spread. it is evil stuff. that PO4 is way too high. get some GFO in there and you'll have to change it fairly quickly too. cut down on your feelings as well. in a rush but will post more later __________________ NEVER get eye level with an infants anus! New build, planning stages. 30 x 20 x 20", Geisemann Spectra 250W with Radium, Profilux controller, Profilux doser 2, Fluval SP4 return pump, Life Reef 28

06/30/2012, 05:58 PM	#4
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	Check this thread out for info on the red algae. It may be the same one. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585144 hth, Sean __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

06/30/2012, 08:05 PM	#5
Steve175 Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 1,186	Don't cut down on your feelings: the ladies like those. Do cut down on your feedings. Agree that adding a reactor with GFO would get you in the right direction. Also: would increase water changes to 10% weekly to help lower phosphates. __________________ Steve ---------------------------------- Current Tank Info: 2 separate 250G bowfront rimless ELOS tanks plumbed to 260G sump, 220G refugium, 220G frag, BK DeLuxe 300, 400W MH x4, closed loops, 3/4hp chiller x2, Phos reactor, Kalk reactor, Charcoal reactor, Ca reactor, 60G surge tanks, & a huge elec bill

07/01/2012, 05:44 PM	#12
zachfishman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Petersburg, FL Posts: 3,577	If you haven't changed out your RODI filters, that could be a contributor. __________________ Patience is a reefer's best tool. Secret Xenia lover. M.S. Marine Biology Staff - Marine Discovery Center, St. Petersburg FL Tampa Bay Reef Club BOD 2018 Current Tank Info: 34g modded Solana

06/30/2012, 05:33 PM	#2
Toxic45 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 73	Not sure how high phosphates affect the critters or water but I'd look into it.

07/01/2012, 06:25 AM	#7
ezerasurfr Moved On Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 663	Make sure you use a reactor for the GFO like Steve said. Don't just mesh the GFO, as it will be WAY more effective in a reactor. I like the nextreef MR-1, it's a little pricey, but worth every penny. You can go cheap and get a "2 Little Fishes" one, but they have a pretty crappy gasket assembly that will end up breaking on you. Or you can pickup a BRS one, I just dont like the layout of those, but they hold up very well.

07/01/2012, 08:42 AM	#8
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	Thank all, OK, here is my plan... 1. Increase water changes and clean sump sponge every week. 2. I ordered a PhosBan reactor and Granular GFO from BRS. Two more questions... 1. How often should I feed for my current fish load? I am feeding New Life Spectrum pellets. (Marine.) 2. Will the current algae growth die back or do I need to physically remove it? Thanks again!!

07/25/2012, 03:37 PM	#13
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	Hi All, I have an update on my tank. Roughly 2 weeks ago I bought a Phosban 150 reactor and started running GFO from BRS through it. Well to be honest, I really see no improvement. In fact the red slime seems to be getting worse. I also removed the sponge from the sump. Any thoughts? Thanks.

07/25/2012, 03:42 PM	#14
Fish_King_25 Reef Addict Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 826	Bigger water changes until its improving...15/20% if necessary __________________ ~Kenny~ 29g mixed reef lps, sps, and softies, 10g sump/fuge, cadlights pls-100 skimmer, LifeReef overflow with Mag 7 return pump, Tunze ATO, 2 Koralias, 4x24w T5HO ATIs w/ moonlight LEDs Current Tank Info: Green Chromis, Yellow Clown Goby, Green Mandarin, Diamond Goby, Percula Clown, and CUC

07/25/2012, 05:37 PM	#17
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	OK, I tested a bucket of fresh RODI and the PO4 looks good. Now I have put a large rock in the bucket. No salt or heater. What should I do from here? Thanks!

07/26/2012, 04:04 PM	#19
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	OK, I had an odd result. The after test of my RODI water with the rock in the water showed a lower level of PO4 than the before. Granted, I don't have a good test kit so I don't know. The rock did have some algae and Cyano on it so maybe that is what consumed the PO4? Anyway, I have ordered a Hannah checker and I am replacing my filters in my RODI system. Another question, would it be beneficial for me to remove all of my rocks, scrub them down, really vacuum the sand (not much left though) and then put the system back together?

07/27/2012, 06:00 AM	#20
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	Also, I do have so me debris (detritus?) in my sump. Do I need to remove that? Again, tank is about 18 months old. Thanks!

07/27/2012, 05:44 PM	#21
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	Also just noticed that one of my actinics is burned out and the bulbs are one year old. I guess I need to order new bulbs as well! Last edited by Patrick Cox; 07/27/2012 at 06:17 PM.

08/01/2012, 07:06 PM	#25
Patrick Cox Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 1,697	OK, here is a follow up. I just changed my bulbs to 4 new ATI bulbs - 2 Aquablue Specials, 1 Actinic and 1 Blue Plus. So my white bulbs are now 12K and the old white bulbs were 10K. Hopefully this will help discourage the Cyano. I also received my Hanna Phosphate Checker and my RODI water tested .03 and my tank water tested .06. This is after several 20% water changes over the past week or so. I then tested the water coming out of my phosban reactor and the reading was 0.2. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not but I guess I need to change the media if that is correct. Corals and fish seem healthy though. Here is how the tank looks now (before new lights.) Still a work in progress...