Help! Ick wont go away!

[ILikeTurtles]

I have a 125 gallon reef tank. I consider myself new to the hobby still (fowlr 1 year, reef 4 mths) I had ick in my display (125gallon) a few months ago. I took out the fish about 7 and put them in a 55 gallon and treated with coppersafe for 2 months (leaving display fallow). ick looked gone so i put the fish back after the 2 mths. About 2 mths later my nitrates were climbing to about 80 and i noticed some of the ick on the fish. I did water changes it seemed to help then bam the fish were covered esp blue hippo tang... I only had a 10 gallon qt set up and now had about 14 fish and knew there was no way i had time to set up another large qt tank before the fish died, so i set took out my corals and treated my display with copper in desperation. I saved my fish the ick looked almost completly gone in a week. I know ppl say the tank is ruined now and that you cant get the copper out but i was desperate and hope when after a month when the copper is no good (says box) that i can use carbon and large water changes to try and make it reef safe again.. but anyway It has been 2 1/2 weeks with copper at about level 3 according to my copper test kit and i am still seeing new ick spots on my blue hippo tang.... I HATE THS PARASITE!!! I dont know what will kill it and hateeee to see my fish being tortured! This parasite has made the hobby very difficult and frustrating for me almost about to give up What do you guys recomend? I hear copper is more effective than hypo and it still dosent seem to work?!?! Thank you for any advice you can give. BTW the nitrates are down to about 20 now

[snorvich]

If your copper concentration drops below therapeutic dosage, the clock restarts. The display tank needs to remain fallow for 9 weeks. You need to have a quarantine protocol. Please read the stickies for lots of information

[tmz]

In a tank with liverock and sand much of the copper is adsorbed dropping the the concentration. It will leach back over a long period of time at levels harmful to invertebrates(PP billion can kill them and are well below the detection level in hobby grade test kits.) including corals but not to fish or crytocaryon iiritans. There are also copper resistant strains of the parasite.

At this point, I would:

Leave the tank fallow again for 72 days. Use polyfilter and cuprisorb.

Or for more saftey for corals and inverts yu add later ,take it down wipe the inside glass and all equipment with vinegar; dump any sand and give the rock an acid bath to remove any copper sticking to it.

For the fish I'd try the tank transfer method.

Sorry for your loses and frustration.

[NarakuAulonocar]

Hi

I've had to deal with probably the same parasite before.
Are the spots slightly larger than normal ich?
The strain I dealt with was resistant to copper and hypo.
This strain also tend to stay on fish longer. I had a spot that stayed on the same spot for around 3 weeks
Sometimes I wonder if this bug evolved in our dealer's system since its rare to have a copper resistant strain much less both hypo and copper!


My fish died in hypo before they got the chance because at that time, I did not know about tank transfer.
If, I were you, I would remove the copper and get the fish to eat first.
After, you fatten them up, I would do tank transfer. Since this strain has a longer cycle, I would do 12 or 8 transfers instead of the normal 4 transfer.
Do not do hypo, in my experience, it prolongs the life cycle.
I have found that keeping the lights off with a blanket will speed up the cycle.

Good luck and I hope you get rid of those little bastards

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by NarakuAulonocar

Hi

I've had to deal with probably the same parasite before.
Are the spots slightly larger than normal ich?
The strain I dealt with was resistant to copper and hypo.
This strain also tend to stay on fish longer. I had a spot that stayed on the same spot for around 3 weeks
Sometimes I wonder if this bug evolved in our dealer's system since its rare to have a copper resistant strain much less both hypo and copper!


My fish died in hypo before they got the chance because at that time, I did not know about tank transfer.
If, I were you, I would remove the copper and get the fish to eat first.
After, you fatten them up, I would do tank transfer. Since this strain has a longer cycle, I would do 12 or 8 transfers instead of the normal 4 transfer.
Do not do hypo, in my experience, it prolongs the life cycle.
I have found that keeping the lights off with a blanket will speed up the cycle.

Good luck and I hope you get rid of those little bastards

There are indeed salinity resistant varieties of ich but usually with copper it is incorrect levels that are the problem. Tank transfer works well, four transfers is sufficient for normal ich.

[ILikeTurtles]

That makes sense that the live rock and sand is absorbing the copper.. I took out the sand, the tank is bare bottom right now.. Will acid wash take off all of the coraline algae and color off the rock and how do i wash it? let it sit in a tub of muratic acid/water or do i need to use a brush to scrub the surface? And do you recomend i leave the rock out and try to adjust the copper to thereputic levels in the display untill the ick is completly gone, since it is allready in there? Btw my skimmer is producing really thick foam that is not liquidfying is the skimmer pulling out copper? The foam was pushing the lid up lol. My corals are doing well in my 55 gallon that was previously treated with copper, it was empty for a few mths and i put carbon in it before i put corals in, so that gives me hope for my dt a lil bit Thanks for the replys and help guys! And the ick does seem rather large, not many spots now but the few that are, are large.

[ILikeTurtles]

I am also concerned that if i take out all of the live rock to acid wash it that there will be no biological filter left?profanity removed this is almost a lose lose senero im thinking i might have to go fish only. ugh idk

[tmz]

The acid washed rock will need to recyle to establish a biofilter but it will over the course of a couple of weeks if you put some food in the curing vessel. A small amount of new live rock and/ or a bacterial supplement might speed that process up some.

I would take the rock out a piece at a time ,say 30% pr week and add some sponge material or bioballs, filter floss or another non aragonite media for the ammonia oxidizing bacteria to colonize.

Then once it's all cleaned up you can put the newly cycled rock back in. Many folks set up tank with dry rock. Sorry for the trouble you are having. Good luck.

Here is a thread with some details about cleaning up rock with a bleach bath and acid bath fyi:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...+reincarnation

A skimmer will not remove free copper but it may remove bound copper as the organicused to bind it may be amphipathic and skimable. What does the manufacuter opf the copper med in use recommend abut skimming.

Running some ploy filter and/ cuprisorb before putting th rockback in if you chose to acid wash it will help remove any residual copper from tank and equipment surfaces.

[ILikeTurtles]

Originally Posted by tmz

The acid washed rock will need to recyle to establish a biofilter but it will over the course of a couple of weeks if you put some food in the curing vessel. A small amount of new live rock and/ or a bacterial supplement might speed that process up some.

I would take the rock out a piece at a time ,say 30% pr week and add some sponge material or bioballs, filter floss or another non aragonite media for the ammonia oxidizing bacteria to colonize.

Then once it's all cleaned up you can put the newly cycled rock back in. Many folks set up tank with dry rock. Sorry for the trouble you are having. Good luck.

Here is a thread with some details about cleaning up rock with a bleach bath and acid bath fyi:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...+reincarnation

A skimmer will not remove free copper but it may remove bound copper as the organicused to bind it may be amphipathic and skimable. What does the manufacuter opf the copper med in use recommend abut skimming.

Running some ploy filter and/ cuprisorb before putting th rockback in if you chose to acid wash it will help remove any residual copper from tank and equipment surfaces.

Hey that sounds like a plan. I am going to do what it takes to get past this disease and to have a healthy pretty reef tank! Thanks for all of the help ill let you know how it goes!

[ILikeTurtles]

Hey guys i have an update! I bought a 150 gallon on craigslist. It fits my stand since the only difference from my 125 is 4 inches higher which looks really nice as a room divider. I cleaned my rocks with muratic acid. I switched to white sand (aragonite) which looks way brighter and cleAnerI have the fish and corals in a 55 gallon since this tank is brand new and has to cycle. I am cycling with ace hardware amonia. How long will this take there is plenty of flow? Another question i have is i have over 100lbs of black aragonite which was exposed to the copper, can i clean this with muratic acid anc use some of it in a 5gal bicket remote deep sand bed? Is it risky with the sand being so smAll? And my last question is this tank only has 1 overflow (drilled). The both holes in glass are drilled 1 3/4, the drain is 1" and the fill is 3/4". I am running 1000 gph after head loss into the tank and the overflow keeps gargling. What can i do to speed up my drain? What is the max gph thos 1" can handle without gargling? I was thinking about making the fill pipe another 1" drain and doing a hang on back fill line. Any advice is much appreciated

[MrTuskfish]

I'd re-post this in another forum section; you'll get a lot more help. You can ask a Mod to just move it.

[ILikeTurtles]

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

I'd re-post this in another forum section; you'll get a lot more help. You can ask a Mod to just move it.

True thanks