EXPERTS - Why is this happening???

gb530 · 07/15/2012, 03:41 PM

I ordered 95 lbs of live rock from my LFS for my new 90g reef tank. The rock I purchase is the synthetic man made rock that comes from Los Angeles. Not only is the rock cured for over 6 months before shipped to my LFS but has been sitting in their tanks for over 6 months. My tank has been up and running with the live rock in it for almost a month.

The problem/question: My tank is still reading low levels of nitrites (tested 2 different ways). How long does the typical nitrite period last? Shouldn't it have been almost instant because I was using all 100% live rock? (other readings: No ammonia, and low readings of Nitrates)

So I brought the water to my LFS and they tested it. They were kind of shocked and didn't know why because it has been almost a month. So they tested their water that the live rock they sold me is in. (the synthetic rock they sell is in a 120g tank, full to the top). That tank in their shop was reading low levels of nitrite! .... Why is this happening? Has anyone dealt with the synthetically made live rock from LA? Could it be the rock? Could there be a way that its throwing off false readings?

I found the same rock I have being sold online here: http://www.pacificeastaquaculture.co...-Prodview.html

Thanks in advance for any help!

disc1 · 07/15/2012, 04:16 PM

The link doesn't work.

Almost a month? You're probably still at that stage of getting the cycle going. It can take a while sometimes, especially with the man made rock. Give it a little time. Maybe throw a few little pieces pf nice grungy real live rock in there to help seed it up. You don't really need much.

Does the rock have any sort of macroscopic life to it? Amphipods? Tube worms? Snails? Anything hitch hike in? The kind of rock that gets you the real fast cycle has all that sort of stuff in it.

Have you seen a good hard ammonia spike? If there's not enough macroscopic life in the rock, then there might not be enough ammonia production to get the cycle pushed into gear. Have you been ghost feeding or using a dead shrimp or anything to get the cycle going?

gb530 · 07/15/2012, 07:51 PM

Here's the link: http://www.pacificeastaquaculture.co...-Prodview.html

I have been putting food in the tank and I didn't have a test kit until recently to check for the ammonia spike. I also currently have 2 clown fish in there for 2 weeks now and they're doing just fine, completely happy and eat well! ....(After reading so much on the forum the past 2 weeks, I would not have put the clowns in there, but the guy at the LFS said it was OK because using live rock cycles fast).....There is not much to this rock, no tube worms, snails, or any micro life to it. I think if the levels don't change soon I will throw in some real "grungy" live rock!

This is the weird part though, my LFS has a 120g tank full of this rock and has been in there for over 6 months and they're getting the same reading (with 2 different testing kits). I probably wouldn't have posted this and waited a couple more weeks but there tank is at the same levels. Why? .... could the rock be leeching anything?

bongarone · 07/15/2012, 08:43 PM

Okay, let's go down your list of "facts":

1. The man-made rock was cured for 6 months prior to being shipped to the LFS
2. The man-made rock sat in a tank for 6 months at the LFS prior to being sold
3. The LFS has a 120g tank full of the man-made rock that's over 6 months old

These are not facts, but possibilities contingent on the honesty of your LFS. I'm dubious.

Best thing to do is wait it out. Don't add ANYTHING. You've already got fish in the tank and they're alive, so continue feeding them daily. No need to try to force an ammonia spike at this point, and since nitrite is not particularly toxic to marine fish, don't bother trying to do anything about it now. If your nitrite drops to zero in a few weeks, you'll know somebody lied to you.

gb530 · 07/15/2012, 08:55 PM

Don't even add different live "grungy" rock?

I know how some of you feel about your LFS but I am really close with the people that work there and know the owner personally. What I can't be sure of is that the rock was cured before the LFS but I have been going in there for almost a year now and the rock has been in the same tank for over 6 months. What I'm sure of is that the live rock in my tank has been sitting in saltwater for over 7 months.

sirreal63 · 07/15/2012, 10:19 PM

I would not be surprised to read some nitrites, it is part two of the conversion. Also keep in mind that our hobby grade test kits are not that accurate. I also would not worry at all about nitrites, I doubt they are at a level of toxicity, it is my understanding that they are not considered very toxic to saltwater creatures like they can be in freshwater.

gb530 · 07/15/2012, 10:56 PM

interesting. The levels are very low. Thanks everyone for the help and info, much appreciated!

gb530 · 07/15/2012, 10:58 PM

I shall wait it out!

sczlars · 07/16/2012, 01:45 AM

Sounds like pretty boring rock

. The rock I got from my LFS, I think it had previously been in somebody else's tank, came with brittle stars, tiny snails, asterina starfish, purple cloves, bristle worms, spaghetti worms, vermetid snails and lots of pods. Lots of fun stuff for the noob to look at.

That was all to say that I like the idea of you getting an actual "Live Rock" in your tank to seed it. Unless, of course you don't want any of those critters in there.

regards, --Lars

tmz · 07/16/2012, 07:38 AM

I doubt there is anything wrong with the rock. The NO2 indicates some ammonia oxidation is occurring. Likely, some die off occurred when the rock was moved . If it has been in a tank with little food it has a small bacterial population which is adjusting to any die off or the food you are adding. Give it some time .

gb530 · 07/16/2012, 09:02 PM

Yes lars! The rock is very boring, haha.... I have decided to return all of the rock. Something is wrong with the rock.

I posted this in another Forum (New to the Hobby) and decided to post in here (Reef Chemistry) to get better responses but I have continued my comments under that Forum.

Please see this link for continued information on this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2191845

Octoberfest · 07/17/2012, 10:36 AM

I have a 93 cube that's been setup for about 5 months now and I used Real Reef Rock for about 80% of my rock work. I haven't had a single problem with it at all.

One thing your LFS did not tell you is that this rock is cured at the manufacturer but then they send it wrapped in wet paper towels. It also gets sent freight so depending on where you are it's out of water for several days. So while they are keeping it wet there is die off when it gets to the store.

I've ordered it directly from Real Reef and I always let it dry out then cure it before it goes into the tank to cycle. I'm very happy with the rock and will continue to use it in the future. Price wise it costs more than natural live rock but I see the benefits in it.

Here are a few pictures of my tank that has about 80% Real Reef Rock in it that's been running for about 5 months, along with a few critter pics too.

gb530 · 07/17/2012, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the pictures! Really cool tank..... I'm still hesitant to use purple painted rock and am very glad that I returned it. When i pulled all the rock out, there were purple paint chips at the bottom of my tank

Octoberfest · 07/17/2012, 02:47 PM

It's not paint, it's a water based dye. the chips are pieces of the rock that broke off.

Could you tell us more about your setup?

Have you been doing water changes?

gb530 · 07/17/2012, 04:22 PM

I returned the rock already. I have a 90g with a 30g sum/refugium, with reef octopus Diablo 2 skimmer, jbj ATO with RO water.... I will post some pictures of the new rock I get.

Octoberfest, thanks again for the pics and info on the rock, I'm just not comfortable with it. Especially when it sat at my LFS and still hasn't cycled after 6 months! Glad to hear that the rock worked for you!

07/15/2012, 03:41 PM	#1
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	EXPERTS - Why is this happening??? I ordered 95 lbs of live rock from my LFS for my new 90g reef tank. The rock I purchase is the synthetic man made rock that comes from Los Angeles. Not only is the rock cured for over 6 months before shipped to my LFS but has been sitting in their tanks for over 6 months. My tank has been up and running with the live rock in it for almost a month. The problem/question: My tank is still reading low levels of nitrites (tested 2 different ways). How long does the typical nitrite period last? Shouldn't it have been almost instant because I was using all 100% live rock? (other readings: No ammonia, and low readings of Nitrates) So I brought the water to my LFS and they tested it. They were kind of shocked and didn't know why because it has been almost a month. So they tested their water that the live rock they sold me is in. (the synthetic rock they sell is in a 120g tank, full to the top). That tank in their shop was reading low levels of nitrite! .... Why is this happening? Has anyone dealt with the synthetically made live rock from LA? Could it be the rock? Could there be a way that its throwing off false readings? I found the same rock I have being sold online here: http://www.pacificeastaquaculture.co...-Prodview.html Thanks in advance for any help!

07/15/2012, 04:16 PM	#2
disc1 -RT * ln(k) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 9,705	The link doesn't work. Almost a month? You're probably still at that stage of getting the cycle going. It can take a while sometimes, especially with the man made rock. Give it a little time. Maybe throw a few little pieces pf nice grungy real live rock in there to help seed it up. You don't really need much. Does the rock have any sort of macroscopic life to it? Amphipods? Tube worms? Snails? Anything hitch hike in? The kind of rock that gets you the real fast cycle has all that sort of stuff in it. Have you seen a good hard ammonia spike? If there's not enough macroscopic life in the rock, then there might not be enough ammonia production to get the cycle pushed into gear. Have you been ghost feeding or using a dead shrimp or anything to get the cycle going? __________________ David Current Tank: Undergoing reconstruction...

07/15/2012, 07:51 PM	#3
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	Here's the link: http://www.pacificeastaquaculture.co...-Prodview.html I have been putting food in the tank and I didn't have a test kit until recently to check for the ammonia spike. I also currently have 2 clown fish in there for 2 weeks now and they're doing just fine, completely happy and eat well! ....(After reading so much on the forum the past 2 weeks, I would not have put the clowns in there, but the guy at the LFS said it was OK because using live rock cycles fast).....There is not much to this rock, no tube worms, snails, or any micro life to it. I think if the levels don't change soon I will throw in some real "grungy" live rock! This is the weird part though, my LFS has a 120g tank full of this rock and has been in there for over 6 months and they're getting the same reading (with 2 different testing kits). I probably wouldn't have posted this and waited a couple more weeks but there tank is at the same levels. Why? .... could the rock be leeching anything? Last edited by gb530; 07/15/2012 at 07:53 PM. Reason: :)

07/15/2012, 10:19 PM	#6
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	I would not be surprised to read some nitrites, it is part two of the conversion. Also keep in mind that our hobby grade test kits are not that accurate. I also would not worry at all about nitrites, I doubt they are at a level of toxicity, it is my understanding that they are not considered very toxic to saltwater creatures like they can be in freshwater. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

07/16/2012, 07:38 AM	#10
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I doubt there is anything wrong with the rock. The NO2 indicates some ammonia oxidation is occurring. Likely, some die off occurred when the rock was moved . If it has been in a tank with little food it has a small bacterial population which is adjusting to any die off or the food you are adding. Give it some time . __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

07/15/2012, 08:43 PM	#4
bongarone Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: California Posts: 423	Okay, let's go down your list of "facts": 1. The man-made rock was cured for 6 months prior to being shipped to the LFS 2. The man-made rock sat in a tank for 6 months at the LFS prior to being sold 3. The LFS has a 120g tank full of the man-made rock that's over 6 months old These are not facts, but possibilities contingent on the honesty of your LFS. I'm dubious. Best thing to do is wait it out. Don't add ANYTHING. You've already got fish in the tank and they're alive, so continue feeding them daily. No need to try to force an ammonia spike at this point, and since nitrite is not particularly toxic to marine fish, don't bother trying to do anything about it now. If your nitrite drops to zero in a few weeks, you'll know somebody lied to you.

07/15/2012, 08:55 PM	#5
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	Don't even add different live "grungy" rock? I know how some of you feel about your LFS but I am really close with the people that work there and know the owner personally. What I can't be sure of is that the rock was cured before the LFS but I have been going in there for almost a year now and the rock has been in the same tank for over 6 months. What I'm sure of is that the live rock in my tank has been sitting in saltwater for over 7 months.

07/15/2012, 10:56 PM	#7
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	interesting. The levels are very low. Thanks everyone for the help and info, much appreciated!

07/15/2012, 10:58 PM	#8
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	I shall wait it out!

07/16/2012, 01:45 AM	#9
sczlars Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, California Posts: 206	Sounds like pretty boring rock . The rock I got from my LFS, I think it had previously been in somebody else's tank, came with brittle stars, tiny snails, asterina starfish, purple cloves, bristle worms, spaghetti worms, vermetid snails and lots of pods. Lots of fun stuff for the noob to look at. That was all to say that I like the idea of you getting an actual "Live Rock" in your tank to seed it. Unless, of course you don't want any of those critters in there. regards, --Lars

07/16/2012, 09:02 PM	#11
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	Yes lars! The rock is very boring, haha.... I have decided to return all of the rock. Something is wrong with the rock. I posted this in another Forum (New to the Hobby) and decided to post in here (Reef Chemistry) to get better responses but I have continued my comments under that Forum. Please see this link for continued information on this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2191845

07/17/2012, 10:36 AM	#12
Octoberfest Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NC Posts: 1,350	I have a 93 cube that's been setup for about 5 months now and I used Real Reef Rock for about 80% of my rock work. I haven't had a single problem with it at all. One thing your LFS did not tell you is that this rock is cured at the manufacturer but then they send it wrapped in wet paper towels. It also gets sent freight so depending on where you are it's out of water for several days. So while they are keeping it wet there is die off when it gets to the store. I've ordered it directly from Real Reef and I always let it dry out then cure it before it goes into the tank to cycle. I'm very happy with the rock and will continue to use it in the future. Price wise it costs more than natural live rock but I see the benefits in it. Here are a few pictures of my tank that has about 80% Real Reef Rock in it that's been running for about 5 months, along with a few critter pics too. __________________ 29 gallon bio-cube with 150w metal halide sunpod fixture, stock 14 gallon bio-cube

07/17/2012, 02:44 PM	#13
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	Thanks for the pictures! Really cool tank..... I'm still hesitant to use purple painted rock and am very glad that I returned it. When i pulled all the rock out, there were purple paint chips at the bottom of my tank

07/17/2012, 02:47 PM	#14
Octoberfest Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NC Posts: 1,350	It's not paint, it's a water based dye. the chips are pieces of the rock that broke off. Could you tell us more about your setup? Have you been doing water changes? __________________ 29 gallon bio-cube with 150w metal halide sunpod fixture, stock 14 gallon bio-cube

07/17/2012, 04:22 PM	#15
gb530 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 492	I returned the rock already. I have a 90g with a 30g sum/refugium, with reef octopus Diablo 2 skimmer, jbj ATO with RO water.... I will post some pictures of the new rock I get. Octoberfest, thanks again for the pics and info on the rock, I'm just not comfortable with it. Especially when it sat at my LFS and still hasn't cycled after 6 months! Glad to hear that the rock worked for you!