Very new to the hobby

[davepal]

Hello,

I am Dave. I've been doing planted fresh water for a while now, but I always really wanted to have salt water. This past weekend after a lot of thinking I figured it's about time to start taking baby steps towards salt water tank.

After reading for the last two days, I figured I would want to start with a FOWLR ( still getting used to acro ). Seems to me it's kind of midway between keeping just fish and growing coral. So, to get started I emptied one of 29 gallon cubes. I realize now, after reading a little more, it's probably better to start with a bigger tank, but I think if I can make this a success I would be more willing to spend more money to get a bigger setup ( I just need a little more confidence before I start spending my kids college fund ).

Now comes my barrage of questions. I am trying to get an estimate of how much I need to shell out just to get started on this, just to get an idea how to fudge my balance sheet for my wife Procedural questions would come later

1. I have a Eheim 2217. Can I use it in the setup ? I am kind of confused if a canister can be used in salt water or not. Read somewhere I need to clean daily ? If that is the case this hobby is not for me. I have 2 twin boys, I feel I forget to change their diapers once in a while.

2. I do have a decent inline heater, can that be used, provided I can use the canister filter ?

3. To tell you the truth, right now my goal is to spend as little as possible to get everything set up till I feel comfortable that I can actually keep a salt water tank. I saw these HOB refugium on ebay, Will this work ?
- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Finnex-Exter...item2ebd5f6973

4. I also saw these protein skimmers, any thoughts on these ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquarium-Pro...item35bc23ad29

Mind you, this is a 29 gallon cube. I do understand I can get a big sump and a big skimmer, but I am trying to keep outlay as little as possible.

5. I would like to use base rock - how much do I need ?

6. Is there a specific type of base rock that is better than other ? Carib Sea's 40 lbs south seas base rock is only 60 bucks. Any reason why I should buy from marcorocks.com or live rock ranch or some other online store instead ?

7. How much live rock do I need to seed for seeding base rock ?

8. There seems to be so many types of live rock, from so many different places. Is one better than another ? I would love to get say 5-7 lbs of each type of live rock. Is there any place that sells like that ? All I see is online stores want you to buy 40 lbs of live rock of one kind. My thinking is a little diversity is a good thing. It is absolutely possible that I am very wrong

9. I would like some sand, do I need live sand or can I use something like Caribsea aragonite - how much sand do I need ? One of these online sellers even giving free 40 lbs of live sand if I buy base rock. Now I cannot remember who, i discovered the site around 4:00 am this morning ( reefrocks.net ?).

10. Light - I have a AquaticLife dual lamp T5 HO fixture, I changed the lamps for freshwater. I do have a 10000K ardent white marine lamp. I am guessing I need to buy a actinic bulb for the other. Is this enough ? These are stackable, do I need to buy a second one ? Can I buy a led instead, will that suffice ?


11. I have a friend who keeps salt water tanks. He suggested I use his water to cycle my new tank faster. Any cons to that, other than I might be getting free unwanted hitchhikers ?

12. Powerheads - I do have a few Koralia lying around. I am thinking about using one 1300 ( is it too much ) and 2 nanos

13. Any other equipment I am missing ?

13. What other obvious questions am I not asking ?

I am really excited to take this step, I have wanted a salt water tank for ages. I do really appreciate all your help. I know I need to go through the threads a lot more. Probably all my questions has already been answered in one thread or another. I just want to get past the first hump of getting everything I need. That's when the real fun begins.

Any help with my above questions would be really appreciated.

[michaelr]

hey welcome to the hobby. i am currently a bit on the tired side so bear with me .

1. canister filters are frowned upon for sw aquariums due to the fact that they build up waste quickly which means high nitrates mostly. this is not good for inverts whatsoever. but due to the fact that you are looking at fowlr this is less of a big deal bc the fish handle it more. dont get me wrong you still will need to clean it out a ton but every day seems excessive.

2 dont know much about inline heaters sorry.

3 i feel you. no matter what it wont be cheap really. honestly if this is as much of a temporary tank as it seems you dont need to worry about a refugium you should be good

4 never heard of it and i wouldnt get it. protein skimmers imo are not something to cheap out on. plus by the looks of it it the picture is in a fw tank which its almost impossible (EXTREMELY expensive new tech) to have a fw protein skimmer

5-8 the general rule is 1 lb of rock per gallon of water. this can be tweaked higher but isnt reccomended to be significantly lower. (bacteria lives in the rock and helps break down waste) the ratio of lr to br can vary as much as you want. just keep in mind the more br and less lr the longer it will take to cycle the tank. as for types of br do your research find some that you like the look of then look at reviews. some will have high phosphates which are easier to fix beforehand. as for type of LR all the types are dependent of where its harvested from. Personally i am a fan of Florida liverock because alot of other places tend to let the stuff on the rock basically wipe out completely then still call it lr. i actually have a rare piece of coral that came from my florida lr . some people dont like to have much diversity on their rock because more diversity= higher bad hitchhiker chance. But personally i love the idea that new things pop up all the time it to me is part of the excitement.

9 you dont need live sand. but most people recommend a small grain size. its a balance though bigger grain= waste in between cracks small grain = blown around.

10 since your looking at fowlr lighting is purely aesthetic. lower k light can/will encourage algae growth though.

11 i dont think that this is necessary at all. the water column barely has any beneficial bacteria in it at all. all of it lives in the gravel and rock.

12 too tired to think this one through sorry

13 i cant think of any other equipment but again, tired.

but definitely do your research. there's a ton to learn so take your time for sure. and yes they have been answered but once youve been on this forum for a while you realize that probably 95% of all questions have been asked before so its all good. good luck

[mal7887]

Don't skimp to save money or you will end up spending more in the long run. I learned this the hard way.

[muteturkey]

Canister filters can be used. I have an eheim 2213 I've been using on my 63 gallon for almost 2 years with corals, inverts and fish. What will help will be live sand and rock for added bacteria. I waterchange ~20% every 2 weeks and my nitrates never exceed 10 if it reads. One issue with canisters is they can remove oxygen from water which can cause ph issues as well as starving livestock of oxygen. This can be fixed by an air pump or good water flow that breaks tension on the surface. Just be sure to have a good bacterial base in the tank and don't over stock or feed.

[michaelr]

Originally Posted by mal7843

Don't skimp to save money or you will end up spending more in the long run. I learned this the hard way.

but. if he is planning on upgrading already then why spend tons of money. none of the stuff he buys likely will work on the new tank. i mean i agree he shouldnt go extremely cheap but he shouldnt go all out

[muteturkey]

I agree with both statements above. I would buy the good stuff for your tank now (filter, skimmer, lighting, etc..) and take care of it for a year or so. If you enjoy it and have success, start planning your upgrade and buy hardware suited for the larger tank. You will already have some experience with the hardware from your smaller tank so you won't throwing yourself into something new.

[sn4265]

I know that you are trying to keep costs down, but I think you are kind of asking for difficulties here. Personally, I would suggest keeping an eye on Criag's List in your area. Around here I see tons of adds for 55 gal tank/stand combinations many of which include extras like heaters, return pumps, etc. This may not be your cheapest route, but if you can swing getting a 55 gal with a 20 to 30 gal sump you will have 2.5 to 3 times the water volume of that 29 gal. Increased water volume makes for a more stable environment and therefore a better chance for success.

Now on to just a couple of your questions...

First of all, I would look at either the Fiji or Pukani Live Rocks. I think some of the others are fine choices too, but unless you have a specific design aesthetic in mind I would steer clear of the branch rocks. The reason is they are dense and heavy so that are more expensive for the size and have less surface area for beneficial bacteria.

As already mentioned, the lighting isn't going to matter a whole lot for a FOWLR tank but you might look at the higher spectrum bulbs to help keep algae down. Again, many of the setups you may find on Craig's List will include lights, though you would probably need new bulbs for these.

The water from your friend's tank won't hurt anything, but I would more recommend a cheap HOB filter and ask him to put the filter cartridge in his sump for a couple of weeks to let it establish a bacteria colony there. You can then use this in your tank to actually help jumpstart the cycle and bacteria there. This is what I'm doing setting up my new QT tank.

And of course, keep reading. There is a lot to learn in moving from FW to SW. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[davepal]

Thank you guys for all your valuable inputs.

muteturkey - that was my thought, to see if i can have any success using most of the equipment I already own and adding whatever else is needed to almost get by. I do have airpumps.

I don't want to go so cheap that it would surely not help me succeed, but I don't also want to go ahead and buy all premium stuff and then fail miserably. There has to be a happy medium somewhere.

sn4265 - I actually have a friend who is offering to give me his spare 55 gallon for free. The one reason I figured it would be easier with the cube is the depth. Maybe I should rethink and reconsider the 55 gallon.

Another big reason I wanted to start with a smaller setup is that there is this really huge possibility that would move to a different part of town in the next 12 months. It would be a lot easier to break down a 30 gallon than a 100 gallon. But I guess 30 and 55 is not that big a difference. Should I be worried about the depth of the tank ? It's almost like you need custom tanks to fit every need.

I am a avid Craigslist watcher when it comes to buying stuff for hobby . I have a few 10g HOB filters, I think it's a great idea. Thanks for rock suggestions. Considering the visionary and artiste I am, if I have to design, it would look more like an avalanche. I might have to get my wife's help on this one.

I agree in this hobby reading determines success or failure.

Any suggestion for what to look for skimmer, any particular brand name ?

Since I am told I can use my canister filter, is a HOB refugium enough ?

I have been thinking through the whole setup, what goes where and so on. Is it OK for a QT to go under closed aquarium stand ? It won't see much light of the day, I do have spare 10 gallon that come with mounted lights. I still have 3 small 10g tanks running in my home office with a whole bunch of expensive guppy fry. I need to figure what to do with these before I can make room for more tanks.

Again, I do appreciate every one of you taking time to answer my questions !

[muteturkey]

It can be done with HOB filters just keep an eye on your parameters. I've heard good things about the aquatic life and eshopps HOB skimmers.

[davepal]

OK, so, I here is a list of things I have and ones I need:

1. I have a 30 G tank

2. Eheim 2217 canister filter

3. Hydor 300 inline heater. I am guessing when I move to a sump one day I would still be able to use it, even if I do not use my canister filter.

4. I do have a crappy Aquaticlife t5h0 light, I am planning to add a LED light of some sort. Apparently light is not that important when it comes to FOWLR tank ? More about looks ?


That's almost all I have, kind of depressing.

Now the things I need :

1. Do I need a UV sterilizer ? I can buy a say 18 W inline, that I can use today with my canister and later on with my sump ?

2. Skimmer - like this ? http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-05271...rotein+skimmer

3. Refugium - this is the one I am not very sure about. I would prefer a HOB for this one. Something like this enough for a 30g ? - http://www.amazon.com/HB-210-FR-Exte...words=refugium.

4. Airpump - I have a few

5. Circulation - have a koralia 1400, am thinking of getting 2 more nanos. 1400 on the back and the nanos on 2 sides should give enough circulation along with 2217 spray bar..

5. 1.5 inch sand -white aragonite sand from somewhere - live or dead.

6. Base / Live rock - still not sure the split, from where.


Anything else I am missing ?

After reading some more, I have realized next thing I need to start thinking about are fish, and what goes first and so on ?

[Below Radar]

I really liked my rocks from marcorocks.com, looked great and were very porous. Pretty inexpensive too, maybe $2.50ish/lb for their dry rock.