Question on CUCs

[tj1627]

Hey all,

I'm finally ready to get my tank setup and begin cycling. Here's a quick rundown on my setup:
55 gallon aquarium, proflex model 2 sump, t5HO 4 bulb 216W lighting.
Tank will be mostly zoa, soft, and LPS corals
Fish selection undetermined, but most likely on the lighter side

For detailed info on equipment choices, please see my other thread in the new members area:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192520


Now onto questions: I'm trying to plan out a CUC to add to my tank. As I understand it, a good time to add them is as soon as the cycle is complete. Where my confusion lies is in quantities. I've seen many recommendations to check out ReefCleaners, but when I do I'm somewhat startled by the quantities in their 55 gallon Quick Crew:

51 Dwarf Ceriths - small cleaners that get to the nooks and crannies. Feed on diatoms, cyano, algal detritus, and film algae. Nocturnal cleaners that leave the sandbed at night to search for food.

21 Nassarius - scavengers that will eat leftover food and some fish waste. They will stir sand, but can also be kept in bare bottom tanks.

20 Florida Ceriths - small cleaners that get to the nooks and crannies. Feed on fine hair algae, diatoms, cyano, algal detritus, and film algae. Nocturnal cleaners that leave the sandbed at night to search for food.

15 Large and 13 Small to Medium Nerites - We are currently offering the longer lived and quite hardy Antillean Nerite. (Nerita fulgurans). It grows to a nice size,and consumes a good deal of diatoms, cyano, algal detritus, and film algae. It will also consume some fine hair algae. A nocturnal herbivore that will feed more often at night, they tend to need some time to adjust to the limitations of the aquarium during their first week.

120 inverts? Doesn't that seem a bit.... much? If not, please correct me. I'm just giving you my initial impressions.

If that is correct and I add the CUC once my cycle is complete (after a 50% WC to lower nitrates and probably a five day buffer in between to be sure there is no more ammonia/nitrites), what will they feed on if no fish are present? I know there will probably be algae, but again we're talking about 120 new mouths. I just want to be sure of my course of action once I begin.

The first fish will enter the tank about 4 weeks later. (I'll begin QT with the initial fish once the DT has finished cycling, so probably a 4 week lag between the entrance of the CUC and the first fish).

The only thought I'm having is that the quick crew from ReefCleaners may be for an established tank with a heavy bioload. If that is the case, what is a good count/mix to begin with? I'll eventually increase up to that size CUC over time as my bioload increases, if that is indeed a reasonable size for a CUC in a 55 gallon.

TIA

-Tim

[Reeferz412]

Yes it is, PLUS he doubles your order just in case you have some losses in transit. A lot of people will probably agree on this, but you should order a step down because it is overkill. The ceriths and nerites will eat the diatoms, which there should be quite a bit if your tank is done cycling (diatom blooms). The nassarius will require some form of food that you will have to feed, mine eat whatever hits the floor (flake food, brine, mysis).

[EricSIny]

I agree its a bit overkill, and I've always thought that about these CUCs. i would cut that list in half or atleast 40%. wait another month or so then order the other half. thats just what I would do.

[tj1627]

That makes sense.

What about hermit crabs? I see that they offer CUCs with and without them. From everything I've seen they are listed as "reef safe" everywhere I look. But it still begs the question, why specifically offer CUCs without hermit crabs?

Is there an advantage/disadvantage to including them in the CUC? Just my curiosity getting the better of me.

-Tim

[mandarin_goby]

Hermits are annoying. Mine have killed each other and they harass my snails No more hermits for me. Bummer though, because they're cute. They're also good at cleaning dead snails out of their shells.

[Merrell056]

Good info. Thanks for the heads up. I was planning on ordering the 40 gallon package but I'll go for a smaller one.

[gotwins86]

Originally Posted by Merrell056

Good info. Thanks for the heads up. I was planning on ordering the 40 gallon package but I'll go for a smaller one.

Same here, good to know.

I'm starting a 75 gallon, what size crew would people suggest I get to start?

[tj1627]

Originally Posted by mandarin_goby

Hermits are annoying. Mine have killed each other and they harass my snails No more hermits for me. Bummer though, because they're cute. They're also good at cleaning dead snails out of their shells.

Other than their *ahem* population control methods, are there any other downsides to having them in a CUC?

Am I losing any major benefits if I decide not to include them in my setup?

Thanks.

-Tim

[mthomp]

My opinion is cut that by 60% no reason to have both kinds of cerith snails is there?

Also I do not advocate adding a CuC directly after a cycle, I find waiting till you are closer to adding fish a better time like 3-5 days before. Your next question after buying them will be,"what do i feed my CuC" and then will be adding food to your tank with very little to eat it.

[tj1627]

Originally Posted by mthomp

My opinion is cut that by 60% no reason to have both kinds of cerith snails is there?

Also I do not advocate adding a CuC directly after a cycle, I find waiting till you are closer to adding fish a better time like 3-5 days before. Your next question after buying them will be,"what do i feed my CuC" and then will be adding food to your tank with very little to eat it.

So if I complete my cycle, purchase a new fish and put it into QT, the 4 week timer starts. As long as nothing shows up, the DT will stay "dormant" for those 4 weeks. Is there anything to worry about with the bacteria dying off during this time if there's no ammonia to feed them? (No tank inhabitants)

[sponger0]

I wouldnt do more than 1 critter per gallon. They will be fine in the beginning, but in time they will dwindle off as the food supply does.

[Reeferz412]

IME, hermits need lots of shells or they will kill each other for shells. The bigger ones tend to kill off the small ones for no reason sometimes. They do an awesome job eating all the leftover foods that your fish dont eat, then again so do nassarius snails. If you have florida ceriths, they will kill them for their shells. Hermits are clumsy as well and knock my frags down. they always manage to stick their shell under the frag plate and knock them over. I have re-ordered hermits twice in two years because the population dwindles after one of the alphas kill all the small ones. Fun to have, but you can always have something that does their job and more cost effective.

[MrG]

With regards to hermit crabs, I have had better results with the scarlet reef hermits than with other types. I kept three together in a 29gal nanocube (since moved to a 93gal) with no in-fighting and no snail homicide. In my tanks, the scarlets pick at the rocks or sand sift and are generally oblivious to anything else.

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in on this, but I would say the advantage to having hermits is that they will eat larger/longer algae whereas snails will typically stick to the short stuff (think long hair vs. stubble). You probably don't need hermit crabs, but based on my experience with scarlet hermits they provide a function (algae control, scavenging), are interesting to watch and don't do anything bad to detract from having them.

[sponger0]

Originally Posted by MrG

With regards to hermit crabs, I have had better results with the scarlet reef hermits than with other types. I kept three together in a 29gal nanocube (since moved to a 93gal) with no in-fighting and no snail homicide. In my tanks, the scarlets pick at the rocks or sand sift and are generally oblivious to anything else.

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in on this, but I would say the advantage to having hermits is that they will eat larger/longer algae whereas snails will typically stick to the short stuff (think long hair vs. stubble). You probably don't need hermit crabs, but based on my experience with scarlet hermits they provide a function (algae control, scavenging), are interesting to watch and don't do anything bad to detract from having them.

+1. I have had the same experience with scarlet hermits. Hence why they are the only ones I will buy. They are non evasive and wont take a shell unless it's empty. And the scarlet red is such a much nice looking color.

[jg93]

I love hermits despite their aggressive nature. Just order more shells from John at Reefcleaners (for pennies each,) they're not that big of deal.

Watch out of the Nerites, if you don't have a top you'll find 1 or 2 on your floor every morning

I got a 'full suite' from him for my 75 Gallon - it hasn't been an eyesore or an issue at all. I do have lots of snail eggs now though...

My tank is hella clean with very little maintenance on my part!