Pros and Cons of Barebottom tanks

DLANDINO · 08/25/2012, 09:25 PM

Calling all experts on the topic. I am about to undergo a complete change and am thinking that bare bottom is the path I will take. Can we please have a discussion of pros and cons of a bare bottom reef? I know that you can't have certain fish and inverts that need a sand bed. My main reason for wanting to switch is that I don't want anywhere for excess nutrients to hide in or a place for po4 to be bound up and eventually released. I am having a heck of a time with HA due to excessive po4 after a major die off following hurricane Irene last year. It has gotten to the point now that all of my sps have died off and my LPS is following. So, after 6 years I am calling a do-over. Thanks!

CUZ · 08/25/2012, 09:42 PM

+1 for more flow
+2 for cleaner

-1 there's alot of cool critters that love the sand

Steve Wright2 · 08/25/2012, 09:46 PM

I think you covered one of the major cons above - regarding certain species that it deprives you of keeping , but if your happy enough without those species it is not a significant disadvantage

the major advantage is the ability to keep the DT cleaner
detritus will be much easier to collect when needed on a bare bottom tank, and if providing you also ensure space in your rockwork etc in order ensure flow can keep particulate matter from accumulating somewhere, or at very least, a flow pattern that allows this particulate matter to accumulate in an area you can get to with your syphon

many fans of the BB set ups, will syphon through a filter sock, on a regular basis, not just at water change time, in order to routinely keep the base free of any particulate matter

Toua · 08/25/2012, 10:08 PM

imo if it's going to be a display tank i would go with sand. i've had tanks with sand and bb, from the pictures you get of bb tanks online they look super clean but to be honest it is more noticeably dirtier than a tank with sand. there is always a poo pile somewhere in the tank (unless you have a ton of flow that is unrealistic for the inhabitants of your tank). so for me, if it's a display i would rather get a shallow sand bed, but i've always preferred bb for frag/grow out tanks.

bskiba · 08/25/2012, 11:38 PM

easier to maintain.
no buildup of nutrients

vs

looks.
wrasse's
some inverts

I went BB.

AcroporAddict · 08/26/2012, 01:04 AM

I think wrasses needing sand to make it in a reef tank is a myth. IME if wrasses don't have sand they just sleep under or inbetween rocks.

Reef264 · 08/26/2012, 01:10 AM

Would an Eel have to have sand?I am seriously thinking about this bare bottom thing...

Rasta_mon_420 · 08/26/2012, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcroporAddict

I think wrasses needing sand to make it in a reef tank is a myth. IME if wrasses don't have sand they just sleep under or inbetween rocks.

Not melanarius wrasse, they dive into the sand to sleep @ night , on the other hand my mystery wrasse does sleep between the rocks

Currently:
125G 6 ft. GLASS + 55G LONG SUMP/REFUGIUM

Sent from my iPhone

Motish · 08/26/2012, 04:31 AM

If you go bare bottom, cover it with some type of black acrylic before placing the rocks. Looks much better in my opinion

29144u · 08/26/2012, 05:18 AM

there are over 600 species of wrasses (so far) .Alot of them do require sand to really thrive--leopards for ex . but there are some that do not bury

LinkinReef · 08/26/2012, 06:56 AM

I had a BB before and didn't like the look of it. I guess IMO the pros are you won't get anything trapped without sand but the cons is that you are also limited to the inverts you have. I love jawfish so sand is a definite must

Paris_Wiley · 08/26/2012, 07:44 AM

Just a personal opinion, but I like the looks of a sand bed much more than a bare bottom tank (it looks more natural). In 5+ years having a reef aquarium I have never had an issue with a sand bed as long as it was properly maintained. With the proper sand stirrers (snails, starfish, etc), scavengers (crabs, etc) to eat any food that does not get eaten by the fish and periodic siphoning of any debris that collects a sand bed can be a beneficial part of the tank for many years. With that being said it will still collect more debris than a bare bottom tank even if is is well maintained (especially if it is a deep sand bed) but I have always been able to keep my parameters in line with proper skimming, filtering (GFO & denitrification) and routine water changes.

Gary Majchrzak · 08/26/2012, 08:00 AM

no sandbed infauna. Whoop dee doo.

To keep Macropharyngodon and other sandbed sleepers sprinkle a little bit of sand on the bottom somewhere.

If you still want benefits of a DSB do a remote.

WmTasker · 09/09/2012, 06:18 PM

One thing that many reefers forget, is that no substrate helps to break the life cycle of ich. Any one that has had a reef and an ich out break will know that its not a good thing.

Gary Majchrzak · 09/09/2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WmTasker

One thing that many reefers forget, is that no substrate helps to break the life cycle of ich. Any one that has had a reef and an ich out break will know that its not a good thing.

Wow... I wonder if that's really true? IME anecdotal observations would seem to agree with your post.

That would be HUGE.

And IMO BB isn't really that bad looking. If coral growth is good nobody pays much attention to the substrate.. or lack of it.

WmTasker · 09/09/2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Majchrzak

If coral growth is good nobody pays much attention to the substrate.. or lack of it.

LOL .. I've never looked in someones reef and said nice sand.

Some may argue that the life cycle can still continue by using all the live rock, but most of my reading and experience leads to the substrate being the key. Why are so many quarantine tanks barebottom?

Gary Majchrzak · 09/09/2012, 06:36 PM

I come across posts like this. Gonna have to research it more. Good one, Mr. Bill!

Anemone · 09/09/2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WmTasker

Why are so many quarantine tanks barebottom?

Same reason Q-tanks don't typically use live rock - because you use meds in q-tanks, and the meds can become bound to/in the sand, making accurate dosing more difficult (and making the sand basically useless for any other use).

Kevin

WmTasker · 09/09/2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anemone

Same reason Q-tanks don't typically use live rock - because you use meds in q-tanks, and the meds can become bound to/in the sand, making accurate dosing more difficult (and making the sand basically useless for any other use).

Kevin

I forgot about that reason also. It's been a while since I've used a QT tank.

rc1626 · 09/09/2012, 07:47 PM

I currently run a shallow sand bed but have thought about bare bottom for my next reef tank. I can't imagine no sand so my thought is to try to get some of the benefits of both. My thought is to smear a thin layer of silicone across the base of the tank and put a layer of sand on top of it. It obviously would not function as a typical sand bed but would be asthetically pleasing to the eye. You could also run a tremendous amount of flow with no sand storms. Anyone see any issues with doing this? My other thought would be to do the same with starboard so if you wanted to go back to a clean glass bottom you just remove the starboard.

addicted_2_reef · 09/09/2012, 08:57 PM

I like the bare bottom tanks. I have see some that have corals and zoas covering them completely. It looks fantastic.

AliciaP · 09/09/2012, 09:08 PM

I have a BB tank and I just love the coralline that's making it home. Looks really nice. Much cleaner as far as detritus. I do have a jawfish, and I did have a 6 line wrasee (sold him). The jawfish has lots of space under rocks to live. Since they aren't flat, he fits perfectly. And the 6 line used to sleep inside holes int he rocks.

I will never go back to sand. PLUS - what some people have said about ich has me sold further.

toromp · 09/09/2012, 09:10 PM

I have had 2 BB tanks so far and things are much cleaner with it IME ..I also had sand in one of my tanks ..let's just say sand + 2x MP40s don't mix lol. I don't think if ever go back to sand again

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

rk_tek · 09/09/2012, 10:03 PM

I went BB in my 4.5 PicO and really liked it. I used a cutting board for a substrate. I used white which was bad bc light reflected off of it and was incredibly bright. I did have to take it out every once in a while to clean some deep down detritus.

swcc · 09/10/2012, 06:19 AM

I can't get into the bare bottom idea or cutting board bottom...I get why some do it, but, I don't see the need...as far as 'build up of nutrients releasing from sand'...well... siphon out some sand at times and replace. Keep the substrate shallow like an inch or so to avoid possible toxic buildup that some have had unfortunately occur in 4-6" DSBs.

08/25/2012, 09:25 PM	#1
DLANDINO D.L. Heritage Rings Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Clinton, CT USA Posts: 5,610	Pros and Cons of Barebottom tanks Calling all experts on the topic. I am about to undergo a complete change and am thinking that bare bottom is the path I will take. Can we please have a discussion of pros and cons of a bare bottom reef? I know that you can't have certain fish and inverts that need a sand bed. My main reason for wanting to switch is that I don't want anywhere for excess nutrients to hide in or a place for po4 to be bound up and eventually released. I am having a heck of a time with HA due to excessive po4 after a major die off following hurricane Irene last year. It has gotten to the point now that all of my sps have died off and my LPS is following. So, after 6 years I am calling a do-over. Thanks! __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: JBJ 8 Nano mixed

08/25/2012, 09:46 PM	#3
Steve Wright2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shenzhen PRC Posts: 454	I think you covered one of the major cons above - regarding certain species that it deprives you of keeping , but if your happy enough without those species it is not a significant disadvantage the major advantage is the ability to keep the DT cleaner detritus will be much easier to collect when needed on a bare bottom tank, and if providing you also ensure space in your rockwork etc in order ensure flow can keep particulate matter from accumulating somewhere, or at very least, a flow pattern that allows this particulate matter to accumulate in an area you can get to with your syphon many fans of the BB set ups, will syphon through a filter sock, on a regular basis, not just at water change time, in order to routinely keep the base free of any particulate matter __________________ Turbo snails are you kidding me, even I can catch and remove them from my reef tank

08/25/2012, 11:38 PM	#5
bskiba Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: La Mesa Posts: 794	easier to maintain. no buildup of nutrients vs looks. wrasse's some inverts I went BB. __________________ AKA: BRADREEF Current Tank Info: Started new cube 05-2012

08/26/2012, 01:10 AM	#7
Reef264 Where's The Reef? Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southaven, Ms Posts: 2,098	Would an Eel have to have sand?I am seriously thinking about this bare bottom thing... __________________ I'd rather Die on my feet, than Live on my Knees. Current Tank Info: 150g SPS Reef, 2x250w 14k Pheonix Metal Halides w/T-5 Actinics, 2 Tunze 6095's, Tunze 7096 controller, Ozone, Precision Marine Skimmer, Reef Octopus Bio-Churn Bio Pellet Reactor, GFO & Carbon Reactor, Ozone Reactor, ATO, Reef Keeper.

08/26/2012, 06:56 AM	#11
LinkinReef Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 987	I had a BB before and didn't like the look of it. I guess IMO the pros are you won't get anything trapped without sand but the cons is that you are also limited to the inverts you have. I love jawfish so sand is a definite must __________________ 34g

08/25/2012, 09:42 PM	#2
CUZ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lethbridge Posts: 400	+1 for more flow +2 for cleaner -1 there's alot of cool critters that love the sand

08/25/2012, 10:08 PM	#4
Toua Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 23	imo if it's going to be a display tank i would go with sand. i've had tanks with sand and bb, from the pictures you get of bb tanks online they look super clean but to be honest it is more noticeably dirtier than a tank with sand. there is always a poo pile somewhere in the tank (unless you have a ton of flow that is unrealistic for the inhabitants of your tank). so for me, if it's a display i would rather get a shallow sand bed, but i've always preferred bb for frag/grow out tanks.

08/26/2012, 01:04 AM	#6
AcroporAddict There is no substitute. Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southeast Posts: 2,269	I think wrasses needing sand to make it in a reef tank is a myth. IME if wrasses don't have sand they just sleep under or inbetween rocks.

08/26/2012, 04:31 AM	#9
Motish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 148	If you go bare bottom, cover it with some type of black acrylic before placing the rocks. Looks much better in my opinion

08/26/2012, 05:18 AM	#10
29144u Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 83	there are over 600 species of wrasses (so far) .Alot of them do require sand to really thrive--leopards for ex . but there are some that do not bury

08/26/2012, 07:44 AM	#12
Paris_Wiley Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 90	Just a personal opinion, but I like the looks of a sand bed much more than a bare bottom tank (it looks more natural). In 5+ years having a reef aquarium I have never had an issue with a sand bed as long as it was properly maintained. With the proper sand stirrers (snails, starfish, etc), scavengers (crabs, etc) to eat any food that does not get eaten by the fish and periodic siphoning of any debris that collects a sand bed can be a beneficial part of the tank for many years. With that being said it will still collect more debris than a bare bottom tank even if is is well maintained (especially if it is a deep sand bed) but I have always been able to keep my parameters in line with proper skimming, filtering (GFO & denitrification) and routine water changes.

08/26/2012, 08:00 AM	#13
Gary Majchrzak Team RC Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 41,560	cons of BB display no sandbed infauna. Whoop dee doo. To keep Macropharyngodon and other sandbed sleepers sprinkle a little bit of sand on the bottom somewhere. If you still want benefits of a DSB do a remote. __________________ over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF Current Tank Info: 84x24x30 265g reef past TOTM honors

09/09/2012, 06:18 PM	#14
WmTasker JBJ 45g Rimless Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Crestline, Ohio (central Ohio) Posts: 1,574 Blog Entries: 2	One thing that many reefers forget, is that no substrate helps to break the life cycle of ich. Any one that has had a reef and an ich out break will know that its not a good thing. __________________ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

09/09/2012, 06:36 PM	#17
Gary Majchrzak Team RC Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 41,560	every so often I come across posts like this. Gonna have to research it more. Good one, Mr. Bill! __________________ over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF Current Tank Info: 84x24x30 265g reef past TOTM honors

09/09/2012, 07:47 PM	#20
rc1626 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Long Island Posts: 451	I currently run a shallow sand bed but have thought about bare bottom for my next reef tank. I can't imagine no sand so my thought is to try to get some of the benefits of both. My thought is to smear a thin layer of silicone across the base of the tank and put a layer of sand on top of it. It obviously would not function as a typical sand bed but would be asthetically pleasing to the eye. You could also run a tremendous amount of flow with no sand storms. Anyone see any issues with doing this? My other thought would be to do the same with starboard so if you wanted to go back to a clean glass bottom you just remove the starboard.

09/09/2012, 08:57 PM	#21
addicted_2_reef Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 434	I like the bare bottom tanks. I have see some that have corals and zoas covering them completely. It looks fantastic. __________________ -Brian 25 gallon cube

09/09/2012, 09:08 PM	#22
AliciaP Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Western NY Posts: 461	I have a BB tank and I just love the coralline that's making it home. Looks really nice. Much cleaner as far as detritus. I do have a jawfish, and I did have a 6 line wrasee (sold him). The jawfish has lots of space under rocks to live. Since they aren't flat, he fits perfectly. And the 6 line used to sleep inside holes int he rocks. I will never go back to sand. PLUS - what some people have said about ich has me sold further. __________________ 120g BB A few hammers, a few xenia, kenya and a mushroom. 1 foxface rabbitfish, 1 Y tang, 1 dusky jawfish, 1 bicolor blenny, 2 o. clowns, 2 snowflake clowns, 2 blue/green chromis, 2 brittle stars, l Current Tank Info: 120 gallon BB saltwater tank

09/09/2012, 09:10 PM	#23
toromp Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 67	I have had 2 BB tanks so far and things are much cleaner with it IME ..I also had sand in one of my tanks ..let's just say sand + 2x MP40s don't mix lol. I don't think if ever go back to sand again Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

09/09/2012, 10:03 PM	#24
rk_tek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Jackson, MS Posts: 123	I went BB in my 4.5 PicO and really liked it. I used a cutting board for a substrate. I used white which was bad bc light reflected off of it and was incredibly bright. I did have to take it out every once in a while to clean some deep down detritus.

09/10/2012, 06:19 AM	#25
swcc Moved On Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Tampa Fl Posts: 1,659	I can't get into the bare bottom idea or cutting board bottom...I get why some do it, but, I don't see the need...as far as 'build up of nutrients releasing from sand'...well... siphon out some sand at times and replace. Keep the substrate shallow like an inch or so to avoid possible toxic buildup that some have had unfortunately occur in 4-6" DSBs.