SPS bleaching and sliming

[jharding08]

I have a 120 g, 5 month old mixed reef, moving predominantly towards SPS. With some montipora (rainbow and cap), torch, hammer, acan, favia, some mushrooms and some leather corals doing well, I recently purchased my first branching acropora, which was about 4"x4". It was under T5s at the LFS, but under my LEDs, the blue tips have emerged.

After about 2 weeks of seeing the branching acro move forward with growth, I purchased 5 SPS frags from liveaquaria, some acropora, monitopora and birds nest. THen about a week later I got 4 sunset anthias to add to my sailfin tang, flameback angel and diamond watchman goby.

All was well for the next week. Water had 0 nitrates and 440 calcium. But this week I am seeing some bleaching with the base of the large branching acropora and orange monti cap. The branching acro is also sliming quite a bit (brown slime). The soft and large polyp corals (mushrooms, leather finger, torch, hammer) dont extend as much as they once did.

The fish are fine, eating and active.

I plan on doing a 20% water change today, then testing for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. The bleaching and sliming of the large acro is what concerns me most. Could it be too much at one time with the fish and the hard corals in the tank?

I have had a refugium for about a month with 3.5 DSB (aragonite), live rock and chaeto. The refuge light runs opposite of my blue leds which run 30 minutes longer at the beginning of the day and at the end.

I did a 4 day graph of my pH vs. my refuge light and blue lights. Is this swing too much for acros? I'm guessing my refuge needs more time to balance pH more efficiently.



Am I missing anything else? People mention dosing carbon? RIght now, I just have a sump with refuge and AquaMaxx protein skimmer. I get a full cup of skimmate once a week (somewhat wet skim). My calcium has been good, so I havent implemented a kalk or calcium reactor yet.

Please let me know if you have any ideas of what I can do. I hope the water change helps, I normally do one 20% change a month at the beginning of the month. I could do two a month if necessary. Thanks to all

[jerpa]

We need more info. Your PH swings a bit but there are likely other problems. You mentioned your calcium level but not your alkalinity. You need very stable alk for harder SPS like acropora. You also need to test magnesium. We need these values before we move forward.

It would also be helpful if you told us your dosing regimen for Alk/Cal. If you do not have one you need one. SPS cannot be kept with water changes alone. Regarding those I would shoot for less volume more often. Most do 10% a week but everybody varies.

EDIT: I just saw your comment regarding the kalk reactor. If you are not testing alk your SPS has likely dropped your alkalinity to an unsafe level. SPS in almost all cases require daily dosing. How you accomplish it is up to you. Read the stickies at the top of the forum regarding dosing and Alk/Cal/Mag.

[taylorjonl]

Do you know how much PAR your LEDs are putting out? I have a 29g BioCube that I wanted to put some SPS in so I upgrade to LEDs. I put a piece of Montipora in the tank, at the bottom, then slowly moved it up to the top over a couple weeks. It started bleaching, so I put it in my main tank that has T5s with supplemental LEDs. Come to find out I was getting 1k PAR at the top of my BioCube. I have since adjusted the LEDs down so I get around 500 PAR up top and 200 at the sand.

[bertoni]

That pH swing is too small to be a problem. I agree that the lights might be too bright for the new corals, although I would have expected a faster reaction. I also agree that alkalinity can be a problem for stony corals.

[knukles55]

PH swings are to minor to be affecting all your corals like they have just my opinion. Like everyone else has been saying more information on your tanks nutrients would help diagnose the problem.

[bnumair]

as long as ur ph is with range of 7.8 and 8.4 and if it eve swing few points here and there its not a big deal.

[tmulrney]

I switched to LEDs a year ago. I did burn some corals at first before realizing I needed to slowly ramp up the intensity of the lights, however, the bleaching began at the tips of the corals (ie, highest point of coral closest to the lights) and was never associated with sliming. Hope this helps.

[jharding08]

I'm using CREE LEDs 12" above the water, I've moved the large acropora once since I got it. It is actually lower in the tank than before when the bleaching started



I rechecked my tank chemistry with the following results:
-Calcium - 400 ppm
-Alkalinity - 10 dKH
-Nitrate - 0 ppm
-Phosphate-.25-.50 ppm

I dont have a magnesium measuring kit yet, so I'll get that done at the LFS. I did a 20% water change after the measurement and will remeasure in the next couple days. I am not currently dosing Cal/Alk/Mag. I am researching the best method for my 120g.

I dont think its the lights because I have soft and LPS corals that were in full bloom before the SPS. Sinc ethe Alk and Cal are in an acceptable range, could it be something else. I have a birds nest frag that is starting to bleach now from the base up (might be hard to see from the pic).



I'm not sure if it has something to do with the environment of the room the tank is in. I live in Southern California by the beach and do not have A/C. The tank is an open top with a canopy 16" tall. There is a ceiling fan above the tank that runs all day and night. During the day, there is just one window open in that room, not much fresh air or circulation except for the ceiling fan. When it gets hot in the room, like 78-80, the tank will be in the 79 degree range. When I am home, I have two doors open that create a cross breeze and cool everything down. With cooler weather coming, the tank should stay between 77 and 78 that my Apex controls. I read that the skimmer needs fresh air. Some one suggested to run the air line outside?

[jerpa]

Your phosphates are elevated. You want them below .1 and preferably below .05. Your temperature is fine. My tank runs anywhere from 77-86 depending on the season and it regularly swings several degrees. The airline for the skimmer can help with low PH but yours isn't low and your swing is quite normal. I doubt it is lighting related since they are bleaching from the base.

[jharding08]

Seems like my refugium has taken care of the nitrates in my tank but not phosphates as of yet. Could it be from the food? I feed 1 sailfin tang, 1 flameback angel, 1 diamond watchman goby and 4 sunset anthias one cube each of frozen mysis shirmp and one cube spirulina. I split it to feed twice a day.

Will phosphates bleach SPS corals? I know it produces the algae on my glass. I plan on getting a phosban reactor to handle the effluent of my Ca reactor when I get one. Should I get the phos reactor before the Ca reactor?

[bertoni]

The fish food is likely the source of the phosphate. I'd try the PhosBan reactor now. Phosphate can damage stony corals.

[jharding08]

Any suggestions for a phosban reactor for my 120g? Best pump to run with it until I get my Ca reactor? Also,w hat media to use?

[bertoni]

I'm not sure what the relationship between the PhosBan reactor and the calcium reactor is. That's confusing me.

I have used PhosBan and Phosphate Killer, and they both seemed fine, although my tanks were very low in phosphate anyway. The media from BRS seem to be popular, too. I think any of those should be fine.

[jerpa]

I use a BRS Carbon/GFO reactor. Typically it is run off a Maxi-Jet 1200 but mine is plumbed off my return. Its the only one I have used but it has worked well for me. I also use their GFO.

[jharding08]

I picked up the BRS dual GFo/Carbon reactor and some BRS GFO and Carbon. I am hoping it will get here in time before everything is bleached. I see some other corals starting to now.

Do you think phosphate is the issue?

I am going to see if the LFS has a immediate helping solution, in the meanwhile and also start dosing two part Ca/Alk.

Anything else I should look into?

[bertoni]

I would work on the phosphate issue. It might be the root of the problem. There are other possibilities, but I would expect the corals to have trouble until that problem is resolved. GFO should help, as should some water changes. Lanthanum chloride can be used, too, although it's a bit more work. It probably is the cheapest approach, though. I'd get some carbon into the system, too.

[jharding08]

Got my water checked after the water change and here are the numbers:
Calcium - 460
Alk - 8
Mag - 1150
pH - 8.4
SG - 1.023 (my hygrometer said 1.026, so I got a refractometer for future measurements)

I am dosing magnesium to get that elevated. My LFS lady couldnt really pinpoint why SPS was bleaching and softies were retracted. She said my measurements arent that out of sync.

I then asked her if it could be the lights and she asked what I was running. When I said 3 and 5 watt CREE LEDs at 100% from 10-4, she pretty much said that was it. I dialed them down to 60% max to see what that will do for me, along with the magnesium. We didnt measure phosphates but the reactor will be here on Wed, so I can get that up and running too.

[jerpa]

Sometimes it can be a combination of stresses as well. The salinity is a bit low, the phosphates are high, and the lighting has changed. I'd move slowly while fixing the problems. Raise the salinity by topping off with saltwater, start with half the recommended amount of GFO, and ramp the light up slowly once the corals improve. That is what I would do.

[bertoni]

I agree with working on the salinity and phosphate problems. Changing the lighting might help, too.

[jharding08]

From the BRS Reef Calculator, for a 140 total volume tank, it says to use 35 tbsp or 2.19 cups to start for GFO. Should I start with less than that? Should I also run the Carbon at the BRS starting point?

[bertoni]

I might start with 1/2 cup, and see how that goes. I suspect that the calculator is expecting total water volume. Are you sure there is 140 gallons of water in the system?

[jharding08]

My display tank is 120. I am guessing my sump might be 20, but probably more like 10. I have to do a cubic inch measurement conversion.

Is that 1/2 cup of GFO? What about carbon, should I be running that right off the bat?

[bertoni]

I would run carbon, too.

For the 120g tank, you need to subtract the volume of the sand and live rock, and any equipment. I think 1/2 cup of GFO is a reasonable starting point.

[jharding08]

Is the ratio 2/3 GFO to 1/3 carbon, even if you run in 2 different reactors? So if I do 1/2 cup GFO, it would be 1/4 cup Carbon?

[bertoni]

There's no prescribed ratio between carbon and GFO. I'd probably use 1/2 cup of carbon, but I tended to run a bit more than other people. We have no data on how much carbon a tank would require, and no way of measuring the organic load in a tank, so we're all just guessing.